Performers with real poise!?!?

[pianowelsh]

There is nothing more satisfying than watching a pianist who is wonderfully poised at the instrument and beautifully flowing in all their movements. There are many examples of this one of my more reccent discoveries is the exceptionally talented young Valentina Lisitsa..who plays like breathing.   My question to you all is can this poise be 'trained' or must it be instinctive? The young Valentina illustrates the point well in a Wagner-Liszt transcription on Youtube with gracefulness and elegence. I have to say most of my students are not approaching her level but those of slightly more modest abilities whilst showing considerable refinement lack the effortless look she achieves here and yet their technique and memorisation is well beyond the repertoire they are tackling..perhaps someone could put their finger on the quality we observe her and we can get to the bottom of how to cultivate it?!?!

[pianowelsh]

hmm! It seems reading her biography..that she indeed cites one of the ways she aquired her effortless technique was to practice the hardest parts of the pieces whilst reading books she enjoyed!!!  I have often suggested students look at an obeject - a picture or a point on the way whilst playing a passage from memory to avoid getting keybound BUT reading a book - well hmm! It seems to have worked for her?!?!

[opus10no2]

She has some speed.
Speed = poise?

Lang Lang has incredible poise and elegance as he performs too.

Do you mean to have the level of technical ability where you can take your mind off the music being played and focus on lookin good? 

[pianowelsh]

speed IS NOT the question. Grace is the question. Something I suspect you know little about judging by most of your comments! Stop spamming every thread with speed related comments!

[opus10no2]

It is not spam, it is relevant.

Her technical command(due in major part to her speed) facilitates her to look graceful and elegant while playing.

It is curious though, that in playing Don Juan(in her old video), in the final parts of the piece, she looked a little less graveful, thrusting her pelvis in a manner which could only suggest one thing.

I liked that, but it could hardly be called grace.

[pianowelsh]

This is getting beyond a JOKE

[opus10no2]

It's called an intelligently formed opinion and well thought out reasoning, far from a joke.

[jakev2.0]

Moiseiwitsch.

[pianowelsh]

moiseiewitch (spelling?!) did indeed have fantastic poise at the piano. I would suggest that Sunwook Kim - reccent Leeds winner also has very fine poise.

[steinwaymodeld]

moiseiewitch (spelling?!) did indeed have fantastic poise at the piano. I would suggest that Sunwook Kim - reccent Leeds winner also has very fine poise.

but awful empty playing
worst liszt piano sonata i have ever witnessed or listened to.
and think i spent US 15 on the ticket
my friend left before he finish the statement of the sonata

it's definately awful

[pianowelsh]

I agree inasmuch as I would say the Liszt was the weakest point of his semifinal programme. But It was certainly worth the very reasonable ticket price (which was per session) and his scriabin was as mature and polished an interpretation as exists on the concert platform today. His beethoven was also full fo wonderful colours.  If I would hvae walked out on any of the SF it would have been Tatiana K who just sounded and looked like she was suffering jet lag OR competition fatigue OR both - not her best showing ever.  I think we would disagree completely over Sunwook..but really he is not in question and this isnt a Leeds thread really its a thread about poise. Perhaps you could suggest someone steinwaymodeld who in your opinion shows exceptional poise at the keyboard...they need not be living but clearly they would need to be someone of the recorded era so that we could actually see them.

[opus10no2]

Real poise -

[pianistimo]

i used to think - and still kinda do - depending on my mood - that rachmaninov, richter, poulenc, john browning - all had this kind of elusive grace that depended soley on the music and not themselves.

but, there ARE very graceful performers that go beyond the fingers.  helene grimaud seemed very graceful.  she doesn't have big feet.  therefore, she doesn't have to walk on and off the stage in a sort of different way than she plays the piano.  she 'alighted' in.

ps murray perahia is a very graceful player.  and of course, horowitz. 

i think my teacher has the most grace of any youthful player i've ever seen.  he also doesn't really focus on himself at all and makes a point in masterclasses to get rid of 'personality' and competition - and focus on the sounds coming out of the piano.  his philosophy is that any movement that does not help you reach your place or do anything for the sound of the piece is wasted movement.  unnecessary.  this philosophy of 'conservation' can really pay off at the end of a difficult piece - or entire recital.  you see the performer have as much energy at the beginning as the end.  to me, this is smart grace.

[lau]

oh no...the one thing I HATE about piano players is poise. When i see someone making all those movements i want to go home and grab my blowtorch and then burn them alive while they are playing. then i want to cut them apart with my chainsaw and slowly peel away their burnt skin with added salt. then i want to chop of their hands with some razor wire, and then keep them in a cellar for the rest of their life. then to keep them alive,  i will just feed them puke.

lang lang is on my list

just kidding of course.. 

[opus10no2]

oh no...the one thing I HATE about piano players is poise. When i see someone making all those movements i want to go home and grab my blowtorch and then burn them alive while they are playing. then i want to cut them apart with my chainsaw and slowly peel away their burnt skin with added salt. then i want to chop of their hands with some razor wire, and then keep them in a cellar for the rest of their life. then to keep them alive,  i will just feed them puke.

lang lang is on my list

I have incredible poise .

[jakev2.0]

Lau:

1. Google
2. Define: Poise

[tds]

Being poised has a lot to do with FINE LISTENING. the more you think about it, the more you think it is true.

i have discovered it this past year, and now i play with more poise than my vids i posted here ( taken in 2005 ).

but yes, as soon as i focus on fine listening, the poise comes by itself.

anyones experienced the same thing?

tds

[pianowelsh]

Thanks for making that clear.  Yes I dont mean poise as in flinging yourself about OR pulling faces or grunting or anything else. Im talking about beautifull elegant well choreographed, efficient movements which show no sign of effort - ie TOTAL ease!

 Lau....?!?! I think you may need to have a chat with some nice kind people who will see that you get  a nice suit and a really comfy padded room..miles away form any pianists who pull faces or throw themselves around   Remember to breathe deeply and RELAX

I was told in a masterclass some years ago that when you hang your head down (often symptomatic of being keep bound - having eyes fixed on hands/keys), that it actually restricts not only your physical posture and can lead to stiffness in the neck back and even jaw! but that it actually effects how you hear. I dont pretend to understand all the science of this but Im told if you sit errect at the keyboard with your head up - apart form looking better it actually helps you to hear the sound you make in a more accurate way.  Another pet peeve of mine that was addressed is the issue of people playing from memory with the music desk up.  This reduces dramatically how you hear the sound.  If you dont need it lay it flat OR even better take it out and put it in the corner of the room (im talking about a grand clearly)

op10/2 im quite sure that your poise IS incredible.

[soliloquy]

Moiseiwitsch.

ahahaha you stole my answer.


I would go for Bolet; he gets cool points for smoking while playing

[rc]

but yes, as soon as i focus on fine listening, the poise comes by itself.

anyones experienced the same thing?

tds

I've never thought of it, but I've noticed that fine listening is crucial to my feeling at ease playing, which I imagine must correlate to poise.  I don't know for sure, never seen myself play.  Shifting the focus to listening makes such a difference in my playing.

Last week I played for a masterclass, I'd been lazy all week and the night before found myself fairly insecure in my piece...  I knew all the notes, but the hands just didn't want to obey, the mind kept messing around.  So tried something new and practiced hearing the piece in my head a bunch of times, going over and over as in real practice trying to capture the ideal (I was surprised to find I didn't have an ideal to begin with!). 

That made all the difference...  Having a clear ideal in mind gave me something to listen FOR, kept me focused on the sound, gave the practice/performance direction, a map.  Then everytime I sat down to the piano I imagined being in a strange hall, surrounded by strange people, sitting at a strange piano.  It was real enough to give me stagefright, so I could practice fine listening in spite of artificial stagefright. 

I did the whole process 3 or 4 times that night.  By the time I got to the hall the strange people, strange piano, strange atmosphere... all seemed strangely familiar.  I felt right at home, had an ideal in mind and was able to focus right away on the sound.  (Maybe old news, but it was quite a revelation for me!)

I'm not entirely sure about poise, but I agree that fine listening is the key to fine playing.