common mistakes

[mark1]

I was curious what some of the common mistakes I should look out for? I have been playing piano for a few years but my schedule makes it nearly impossible to go to a teacher. I can play prelude 1 bach, moonlight, fur elise, some of variations by mozart 331 and a few chopin preludes... there are many more but these are at  my overall level of playing. I thought about getting a video recorder but i'm not sure. My goal is to simply play for myself and some close friends. What are some bad habits !        Thank you                                       Mark    

[bernhard]

1.      Wrong notes.
2.      Wrong rhythm (rhythm taken in its most basic definition as relative time values of notes)
3.      Wrong accents.
4.      Wrong movements.
5.      Playing at the edge of the keys (fingers shold be wwll into the bakckey area, and right in the middle of the key)
6.      Reaching for the notes with the fingers, rather than let the arms move the fingers into position.
7.      Using unnecessary muscles movements.
8.      Thinking that relaxation is the key, when actually it has nothing to do with relaxation (relax completely and you will fall to the floor).
9.      Long nails.
10.      Misaligned joints.
11.      Bad posture.
12.      Wrong dynamics.
13.      Wrong pedalling.
14.      Wrong practice.
15.      Being too impatient and trying pieces you are not ready for.
16.      Being too shy and sticking to only easy pieces you know you can play.
17.      Not following a teacher’s advice (at least to see if what he says is true or not).
18.      Forgetting to breath – and most times wrong breathing.
19.      Grimacing unnecessarily, and thinking that this adds “emotion” to your playing.
20.      Crrling fingers too much.
21.      Flattening fingers too much.
22.      Wrong fingering.
23.      Changeable fingering (that is usinga different fingering every time you paly the same passage).
24.      Not tuning the piano frequently.
25.      Not using a metronome in the appropriate circumstances
26.      Using the metronome in inappropriate circumstances.
27.      Not taking care of your overall physical fitness.
28.      Wrong diet.
29.      Wrong lifestyle.
30.      Hanging around with the wrong crowd.
31.      Believing you will be able to get by without a teacher just by reading/listening to CDs/watching videos and surfing the net.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Good luck! (you will need it )
Bernhard.

[rlefebvr]

"8. Thinking that relaxation is the key, when actually it has nothing to do with relaxation (relax completely and you will fall to the floor). "


Now that's funny.

[mark1]

What a list! It's true that I need some help, but I did learn the basics from a couple of piano teachers, so I'm not too far gone.(my wife would beg to differ) I will take lessons again but working and taking care of my two year old is a bit time consuming right now.                Lets get back to the list; very informative, very thorough, and most of all, very honest! I thank you for that. Some people might be disheartened with your reply but I'm not...I'll use it! Thanks for your replies everyone.

...can I get off the floor now?

[allchopin]

22.      Wrong fingering.

I think most important - Chopin himself said that the right fingering was everything.

Here's an addition that you can't do without:
32) Don't get nervous in front of people - it will lead you down the path of destruction (more or less  :-/)

[dj]

.

Here's an addition that you can't do without:
32) Don't get nervous in front of people - it will lead you down the path of destruction (more or less  :-/)

easier said than done.....i'd say that was the hardest problem 2 overcome posted yet

[ted]

Hey Bernhard, thanks for the list. At fifty-six and having had no formal tuition of any duration for over thirty years I was quite chuffed to find I am only guilty of two or three things. Therefore I'm either likely to be playing quite well or suffering from a pronounced delusion.

I've never used a metronome at all and I must pay more attention to pedalling. I am guilty of constantly experimenting with fingering and I do sometimes experiment "on the fly", but it is always directed and never haphazard.

So perhaps I'm doing all right. Now somebody post a similar list for improvisation - THAT would be most interesting !

[bernhard]

Hey Bernhard, thanks for the list. At fifty-six and having had no formal tuition of any duration for over thirty years I was quite chuffed to find I am only guilty of two or three things. Therefore I'm either likely to be playing quite well or suffering from a pronounced delusion.

I've never used a metronome at all and I must pay more attention to pedalling. I am guilty of constantly experimenting with fingering and I do sometimes experiment "on the fly", but it is always directed and never haphazard.

So perhaps I'm doing all right. Now somebody post a similar list for improvisation - THAT would be most interesting !

Yes, as Minsmusic said, it is possible to get by without a teacher. Sometimes if one’s teacher has wrong/misguided ideas it may even be better to be without a teacher (for a while at least). However a (good) teacher has the followings advantages that you will not find anywhere else:

1.      It will save you time. This means a lot of time. What may take you 30 years to learn by yourself can be conquered in a few months with a (good) teacher. So the argument of not having time or not having enough money does not really hold if consider how much time and money a (good) teacher can save you in the long run. finding a good teacher is tough though. But if one is prepared for him/her, s/he will appear.

2.      It will provide you with knowledgeable and expert feedback. The fact is that with extremely rare exceptions (I have not met anyone yet but I am prepared to accept that they may exist) we are very bad at observing ourselves impartially. If one has to rely on oneself for feedback chances are that it will be misguided.

Also have a look here where I wrote about a related issue:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=perf;action=display;num=1076256873;start=0

Then again, take Chopin. He never had a piano teacher and developed all his technique (which was pretty revolutionary at the time) by himself – he had music teachers though.

Here is the test of fire: Find someone whose knowledgeable opinion you trust (your mother or sister is no good I’m afraid). Play from him/her (not improvisation though – see below). Then ask for their evaluation.

Most common mistakes one can make when improvising:

None whatsoever . When improvising whatever you do is right  (people may not like it  – but that is another matter).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

Here's an addition that you can't do without:
32) Don't get nervous in front of people - it will lead you down the path of destruction (more or less  :-/)

It is not difficult to get rid of it (and I don’t think is a “mistake” in the sense of the original question). I said it before and I say again:

When performing have as your only motive to share a piece of music. Never perform to show how good you are. Once the focus of the performance moves from the performer to the music, not only the performer will play wonderfully (many times much to his/her surprise) as s/he will not experience any nervousness at all.

This will also have a very good effect on one’s choice of repertory. How much repertory is chosen not because we really care enough for the music to wish to share it, but because of the impression we believe it will cause in the audience? (meaning how much they will admire us for being able to play it).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[mark1]

...this is similar to having different reiligous affiliations, one believes this and the other believes that. Human nature. The fact is, a teacher can shave years off the learning curve...but on the other hand it isn't necessary! For me it is, I want to resume lessons because I need the extra, objective attention to keep me progressing. Some people don't need to have their hands held.

...playing in front of people is the hardest thing for me. Most people don't care if you can play mozart, but they sure like any billy joel song(My repertoire  doesn't include him yet). I'm not a pop fan.

...this has been a useful thread for me, I hope more gets added that hasn't been discussed yet.

                                  Thanks everyone,       Mark

[allchopin]

It is not difficult to get rid of it

Well if it isn't, I sure haven't found the panacea.

I don’t think is a “mistake” in the sense of the original question

Maybe not, but it's a mistake to think that the audience will 'condemn' you if you mess up, or to think that if you mess up it is the end of the world.  It is a psychological mistake rather than a physiological one.  Even Chopin could not overcome the 'glaring eyes' of the crowd, which took his breath away.  He rarely performed in concert because of this (and other things).

[ted]

Bernhard:

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply. I have, of course, tried playing for "experts" and asking them about all sorts of things every so often. I always take these people very seriously and follow advice for a long time. However, I haven't done this for years now and probably shan't again.

The thing is that when your main thrust is in improvisation and composition you tend to view everything from that point of view, even in interpretation. You do not realise that this way of thinking is totally foreign to someone (most people actually) for whom the goal is a perfect performance of another's piece.

It's a different outlook somehow, and it's very difficult to explain it to somebody who hasn't followed the same path. What these lessons I have taken usually end up comprising is one or two very worthwhile ideas in the midst of a lot of misleading advice. Being a slow thinker I take ages to try it all out. In retrospect the jewels in the mud become clear but I cannot confirm that a teacher speeds anything up at all.  Then again, I might have had the wrong ones - they were pretty reputable though.  

Now music itself and it's creation, as opposed to the technical mastery of other people's piano pieces - that's different - I have learned many things from many musicians. But that doesn't usually involve formal lessons.

[bernhard]

Ted:

You are probably a very advanced musician, and my advice was originally meant for a beginner.

We all have to get rid of our teachers at some point (actually the sooner the better) so we can get on with our own exploring. Once one learns how to learn the whole universe becomes one's teacher, which is quite obviously your case.

You are absolutely right, there is a world of difference between improvising and composing and playing someone's else music.

Again, my advice was for a beginner trying to tackle classical music.

Interestingly enough this difference between composing/improvising and playing someone's else music is a recent phenomenon. Most of the great composers were also great improvisers, and actually they rarely played anyone else's music but their own. People would go to recitals not only to hear the performer but also to hear what new music they had come up with.

With CDs now being generally available, it is well possible that there will be a ressurgence of composer pianists, since why should you go to a live recital when you can hear the piece played perfectly in a CD (there is another controversial issue) in the comfort of your home?

And as I said, you can't go wrong when improvising or composing. In fact the history of compositional rules is the history of breaking these rules.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[tickledivory]

Speaking of mistakes, I've never been able post anything here before my computer crashed. So if you're reading this it meens I finally made it in!

[bernhard]

You've made it!

Congratulations!

[hiline]

31.      Believing you will be able to get by without a teacher just by reading/listening to CDs/watching videos and surfing the net.

Dr. Chang could oppose this example.

[bernhard]

Dr. Chang could oppose this example.

Evidence that we are not the same person?

BW
B

[hiline]

Evidence that we are not the same person?

BW
B

Evidence that you did care about the assumption. 

[leucippus]

What may take you 30 years to learn by yourself can be conquered in a few months with a (good) teacher.

If I knew where I could find a teacher THAT good I'd hire him or her in a second.  

[pianistimo]

thinking that you are relaxed when a vein is sticking out in your neck.  it's not just from the shoulders down - but the neck also.

[pianowolfi]

One of my common mistakes: being permanently afraid of doing something wrong.

[nicco]

It is not difficult to get rid of it (and I don’t think is a “mistake” in the sense of the original question). I said it before and I say again:

When performing have as your only motive to share a piece of music. Never perform to show how good you are. Once the focus of the performance moves from the performer to the music, not only the performer will play wonderfully (many times much to his/her surprise) as s/he will not experience any nervousness at all.

This will also have a very good effect on one’s choice of repertory. How much repertory is chosen not because we really care enough for the music to wish to share it, but because of the impression we believe it will cause in the audience? (meaning how much they will admire us for being able to play it).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Great advice bernhard, (As usual ) thanks again.

[barnowl]

One of my common mistakes: being permanently afraid of doing something wrong.

So. You practice alone, and you play alone. Hmmm. I can see practicing all alone, but you must play for someone, and to h--- with the mistakes.

Tell you what. Before you sit down to play tonight, mentally invite Bernhard, Pianistimo, Tickled Ivory and me to listen. Invite everyone in this thread, for that matter.

Think of Bernhard's advice about sharing the music. And then share it with us.

I promise we'll all enjoy it, and if you make mistakes we won't care. Honest.