looking for steinway D

[nasalstein]

     hello,every piano lovers out there! this is my first post here.  plese welcome.    it's been
     so nice to see you guys still talking enthusiastically  about piano somewhere in this busy                                 
     world (no  irony intended) . i live in far east  and concertize sporadically.
     after decades-long company with my nuance-less,pp-less yamaha C3, now  i plan to upgrade     
     to a steinway D. and i am going to new york and visit steinway hall and other places this   
     year, since i suppose steinway hall is the best place when you look for a D. (any other idea?)                           
     here i want you to help me with a question. if i ever go to steinway hall, about how many       
     D's would i be able to try out? since it takes more than ten hours  just to get there, it will
     be so nice  if i could find "the one" at the time. nevertheless, i know i'd better not to "rush".
     information, advice, words of wisdom,please!!

   
   

[gfiore]

First off. Welocome. Next bit of advice. When you post, please don't double space your writing.
 As to your question. At Steinway Hall NYC, you will be able to play at least 25 model D's. Though most of them will be property of the C&A department, and will not be for sale. Most purchaser's for a model D will go to the factory selection room in Queens, where a few new D's will be available for you to choose from.
 I would suggest first trying to locate a dealership in your locale. The cost of shipping a $100,000  piano to you is not going to be cheap. Air-freight will run upwards of $5,000.

[iumonito]

It's not doublespacing, it's the wraping of the text, I think.

Going to New York to buy an Steinway sounds  little backwards if you can go to Hamburg instead.

More notably, doing such production to buy an Steinway seems suspect to me having so many good options near you (Ron Overs, Kawai Ex and Yamaha CFIIIS) or in Europe for entirely comparable prices (it's a wad of money so a few thousands here and there should make little difference), like Steingraeber or Fazioli.

Why Steinway?  I don't like them , so I always question people asking.

[nasalstein]

It's not doublespacing, it's the wraping of the text, I think.

yes. i don't know how it happened,though.

[nasalstein]

my apologie for wraping.

First off. Welocome. Next bit of advice. When you post, please don't double space your writing.
 As to your question. At Steinway Hall NYC, you will be able to play at least 25 model D's. Though most of them will be property of the C&A department, and will not be for sale. Most purchaser's for a model D will go to the factory selection room in Queens, where a few new D's will be available for you to choose from.
 I would suggest first trying to locate a dealership in your locale. The cost of shipping a $100,000  piano to you is not going to be cheap. Air-freight will run upwards of $5,000.

maybe i should've explained the situation more in detail.
here in japan, only hamburg steinways have been on the market.  so if you want to by a NY steinway, you ask the locale dealership to ship it from the united states and you have to take whatever comes to you.
since i am looking for an excellent one and want to grow old along with it, i can't think of buying it the way i wrote above.
but 25 D's and not for sale....  on any conditions? and i don't think that i want to choose from only a few "raw" D's neither.
that's why i plan to fly to new york .  i would rather go there twice or even more than save 5K for shipping because i want real good one.
thanks for the informations. waiting for your reply.

[gfiore]

 Why would you want a NY Steinway. Most pianists I know would die to own a Hamburg.
 Quality control and final prep is leaps and bounds above the instruments produced in New York.

[gfiore]

If you're shopping in this price range for a concert grand, why must it be a Steinway. There are many other excellent brands to choose from at this level. Bluthner, Bosendorfer, Fazioli, Estonia, Bechstein, Grotrian, August Forster, and Mason &Hamlin are also all sublime instruments that many prefer to Steinway. A european factory selection would be easy to arrange if you want to travel out of your locale.
 I happen to prefer Bosendorfer. You should really try as many different makes as you can as opposed to just setting your sights on just one brand.

[nasalstein]

Why would you want a NY Steinway. Most pianists I know would die to own a Hamburg.
 Quality control and final prep is leaps and bounds above the instruments produced in New York.

you sound as if you don't want me to come visit  the united states, do you?
well, i've got several reasons for that.

because of the state i mentioned before, all the pianos i got to play on/off stage have always been hamburg. so there must be some sort of greener grass syndrome in me. (it's very interesting to see people in the u.s  praise hamburgs. the opposite is happening in japan.)

second, i love horowitz's playing very much.  i even suppose i might have quit playing long time ago if i didn't know his playing.  it taught me how beautifuly a piano can sound.
and he certainly played on NY steinways, right?  i especially love the sound on his 1985 studio recordings.

and  i don' like the brightness of hamburgs' upper tener to treble.

besides, i like the square cheekes and the finish!

[iumonito]

If what you want is a piano that sounds like Horowitz's, I think what you need is a very good tech, like Del Fandrich, to modify a Steinway D for you.  Buy a used one if you can find one, no matter Hamburg or NY.  You will need the action to be adjusted extremely light (much lighter than Steinway factory specs) and the hammers to be kept in that elusive hardness where they are very very bright without being harsh.  You may have to have the piano voiced very frequently to keep it there.  You will most likely want Hamburg hammers, if not Abel Blues (not the hammers Horowitz had, but I think they can be made to have that color).

Horowitz's piano was so different from a standard Steinway D, that when the piano was sent on a tour (after Horowitz's death) it was severy modified so that it would more readily conform to what a D is supposed to be.  Criminal.

You should have the piano that makes you dream, so I am done questioning your desires.  It is clear to me now you know what you want. 

I would still much rather get a CFIIIS.

[nasalstein]

george,

beauiful instrument!!         ivory keytops?      what's your favorite to play on .....her?

[nasalstein]

iumonito,

"very very bright without being harsh"  the very discription i 'd been looking for!
you don't like steinways....   horowitz' playing and the sound as well?
why used one? why hamburg hammers?  i thougt his were new york's?
although i don't mean to copy his sound, if i should have it voiced every month paying, say, 1K,i can't afford it anyway.
i just thought NYsteinways would sound differently.(hopefully,more or less like horowitz')
i played that piano last month. criminal, yes.  i felt kind of sorry for him. it was like ghost. shadow.  but the booming base was still there.   maybe george could tell what's the trick to make that base "boom"? i've never heard that kind of sound anywhere.

warm winter.......
 

[gfiore]

No ivory keystops, my piano is fairly new at 2.5 years. New Ivory is illegal to import, and it feels disguting anyway. I play mostly Scarlatti, Chopini, Liszt, and Scriabin.
 Remember Horowitz owned five different model D's through out his lifetime. The second to last, the one  that he traveled with, #314503 was made in 1943. That was quite a different time period for NY Steinway. To find a NY Steinway that is even close to his is like finding a needle in a hay stack. The quality control of today is not like it was back then.
 Try a Bosendorfer model 225. I have a client with a new one that has a bass to die for.

[kamike]

Depending on your taste in sound, an excellent alternative may also be a Bluthner model 1 (280 cm) if you insist on a full out concert grand.  I own a Bluthner model 2 (238 cm).   The Bluthner has a lighter touch (at least mine does), a rich warm lyrical tone, and good sustain especially in the treble - distincly different than the Steinway.  At this level of piano and price range it would be a shame not to try other fine makes such as Bosendorfer and Bluthner.   These, like other first-rate pianos, have distinctly different touch and tone and both are absolutely superb in construction, scale design, and tonal quality.     

[nasalstein]

welcome in, kamike!
 
ok, just as george says, i will stop setting my sights on just one brand.
i'm gonna try bosen, bluthner, and steingraber, at least.
what i like the most about these makes is, as far as i know, that they seem to stick to the traditional way of manufacturing (steingraber does more than others, it seems.) and they look proud of themselves.  i respect the true artistic craftsmanship.

by the way, bluthner model 1 is much cheaper than bose imperial in japan. 
how about  in america ?

[gfiore]

In the USA an Imperial is over 145k, a Bluthner model 1 is a bit under 100k.

[nasalstein]

No ivory keystops, my piano is fairly new at 2.5 years. New Ivory is illegal to import, and it feels disguting anyway. I play mostly Scarlatti, Chopini, Liszt, and Scriabin.
 

what make you feel disgusting?  import being illegal, the touch of plastic, or trying to import it illegaly?
how about export from the usa? i wonder what if i found an excellent piano with ivory or got one with plastic and have it replaced with pre-ban ivory in the usa.


in japan  imperial  around 145K    steinway D  150K

scriabin on bosendorfer?

[blintz]

Nasalstein,

Yes, be patient when buying your Steinway.  It's good for you to come to the US and look, but don't buy a piano unless you are certain that you like it.  I went to Steinway hall two years ago.  I had to pay half up front, and then I did not find a piano that I liked.  It was a bad situation.  Steinway Hall might have the piano you want, but as long as you're traveling 10 hours, why not look several places?

Consider Faust Harrison Pianos in New York.  Faustharrisonpianos.com  They rebuild older Steinways, like the ones Horowitz would play.  Some people say that the pianos built before about 1950 were the best because of the expert metal workers back then.  You might like something of theirs.  Perhaps contact them.

Also, you may want to look at Pianocraft in Washington D.C.  A man named Keith Kerman sells pianos there, and his pianos are said to be truly amazing.

So if you visit three places, Steinway Hall, Faust Harrison, and PianoCraft, you will have many more pianos to choose from.  Good luck.

[nasalstein]

Nasalstein,

Yes, be patient when buying your Steinway.  It's good for you to come to the US and look, but don't buy a piano unless you are certain that you like it.  I went to Steinway hall two years ago.  I had to pay half up front, and then I did not find a piano that I liked.  It was a bad situation. 

welcomeback, mr B (the memory still hurts?)  what piano do you have right now?
i read many of your previous posts with great interest.
well, why did you have to pay half up front at steinway hall?  i suppose you mean the factory qeens?

this week i am going to several dealerships to try out some bosendorfers, blutners, and steingrabers.
if i could discribe the way i felt, i would report.

i will be messing around the big apple this spring any way, so  i will go to faust harrison as well.
and maybe a.c pianocraft.
what's more, i would come across with a piano curry had prepped.  who knows?
i am looking forward.

 

[thalberg]

Hi Nasalstein.  So you read my previous posts?  I finally got my Thalberg username back.

I'm glad my posts helped you.  Please let me know what kind of piano you get.

Right now, I have a small Boston.  It's just temporary--I'm actually looking to sell it.

[iumonito]

welcomeback, mr B (the memory still hurts?)  what piano do you have right now?
i read many of your previous posts with great interest.
well, why did you have to pay half up front at steinway hall?  i suppose you mean the factory qeens?

this week i am going to several dealerships to try out some bosendorfers, blutners, and steingrabers.
if i could discribe the way i felt, i would report.

i will be messing around the big apple this spring any way, so  i will go to faust harrison as well.
and maybe a.c pianocraft.
what's more, i would come across with a piano curry had prepped.  who knows?
i am looking forward.

 

I vouch for PianoCraft.  I got my piano there and they are second to none I know.  They are in Gaithersburg, Maryland.  Look them up online, you'll need an appointment. 

www.pianocraft.net

[nasalstein]

iumonito,

i think it definitely will be nice to go to washignton and meet keith kerman, of course.
i meant A,C pianocraft new york, though.    have you been there?

[iumonito]

iumonito,

i think it definitely will be nice to go to washignton and meet keith kerman, of course.
i meant A,C pianocraft new york, though.    have you been there?

No, I don't think so; I am surprised they are allowed to use that name, it's confusing to me.  Are they in piano row? 

I did go through piano row, visited Faust Harrison, Beethoven Piano's, Steinway Hall, Hausklavier whatever, etc.  Not my format.  The pianos I played were not in top shape, at least to my taste.  The rooms were no humidity-controlled, the pianos were not well voiced nor in tune.  Only God knows about the more subtle things like a fit action.

I am a snob when it comes to prep.  I did not find the right place where to buy a piano the time I looked.  It may have made me a little prejudiced against it, as I am sure there is the right shop, and I just did not find it in the Big Apple.

...I found it in Maryland, thought. 

[soliloquy]

I can hook you up with a 1940's New York Steinway Model D (like you hear Horowitz using), fully restored, for $110,000.00USD.

[arensky]

i meant A,C pianocraft new york, though.    have you been there?

Yes. My Steinway "A" was rebuilt (new soundboard, action and finish) there about 20 years ago. The other instruments there at that time were extraordinary, particularly a 1921 "C". Don't know what they are like now though. I may be in New York this coming summer and will go piano window shopping if I am. My teacher in high school had a 1889 "C" that had been rebuilt there by a rebuilder named Martino (don't remember his first name). Perhaps the best piano (certainly the best Steinway) I have ever played. I visited him not long ago and played the piano again, expecting it to not be as good as I remembered, having played many other pianos in the years since then. I was wrong, what an instrument.  I would definitely visit their shop ( on 57th street now) if you are in New York.

The info on Horowitz' Steinways may be read here, scroll down to "Horowitz' Pianos".

https://web.telia.com/~u85420275/trivia.htm

[zheer]

https://web.telia.com/~u85420275/trivia.htm

  A saw a Horowitz look-alike  couple of years ago driving a Bently. I think playing on a steinway is a little like driving a Bently.

[marco_from_brazil]

oh god, I knew it. he's still alive! 

ps: funny, I play a bentley, wonder what would be like to drive a steinway 

[grandpianoguy]

A few observations:  the Steinways in the basement of Steinway Hall in NY, like most everything else in the building, are for sale, no matter what lofty claims the management may make.  Steinway is in the business of selling pianos and I assure you they will sell any one in the building.  You just have to know whom to ask.  And yes, the pianos in the basement are much more thoroughly prepped than the ones upstairs or in the Queens selection room.  The discrepancy is sometimes astonishing. I visited both places last fall and was dismayed by the state of the pianos in the showrooms: poorly regulated and voiced and often out of tune, while the ones in the basement were, by and large, quite good and some were extraordinarily beautiful.

Steinway is just too cheap to spend the necesary extra money to prep their non-concert instruments adequately.  They're hoping you won't know the difference or, if you do, won't realize that you can and should demand that they do the extra work at their own expense.

I was also appalled by the arrogance of the salespeople at the New York store: they act like their product is so superior that they don't need to be nice to you.  I mean, demanding your name and address before they'll even let you in--ridiculous!--and then only grudgingly showing you their pianos, like you're not worthy. 

By the way, I'm the owner of a New York D and a Hamburg C!  I'm a known high-end customer!! I wonder how they treat other people? Actually I already know the answer, because a friend had a similar experience not long thereafter.

I had a much nicer experience at Klavierhaus, on "Piano Row".  The guys there are VERY knowledgeable about their pianos and very pleasant to talk to as well. And they keep their pianos in much better shape than the posers at Steinway.  Their Hamburgs and Faziolis are really superior instruments and I felt like they'd let me play them for hours if I wanted.  I'd go there if I was in the market for a used Hamburg Steinway or a Fazioli.

The folks at the Steinway showroom in Hamburg are a lot nicer than the ones in New York, which is interesting because their pianos are MUCH nicer too.  The ones in the selection room on the Rondenbarg are uniformly well-prepped, all beautifully regulated and voiced.  There's no double standard there.

Well, I'm still a fan of NY Steinway pianos, the good ones anyway. I just wish they were more consistent in quality.