Virgil Practice Clavier

[ted]

Does anybody else here own and use one of these regularly ?

[bernhard]

Have a look at this thread, there is a bit of information on Virgil Claviers somewhere in the middle.

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=perf;action=display;num=1076626761

I don’t think they are manufactured anymore.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ted]

Bernhard:

Thanks for that. I hadn't noticed the other post. The one in the photo is almost identical to mine. I bought mine from my teacher back in 1968. It had belonged to his brother who used nothing else - yes, that's right, he played all his Bach in complete silence - I think he was a bit loopy. He played it that hard he wore the black notes down and Llew (my teacher) who was an expert cabinetmaker among other things, repaired the whole thing, fitted a new keyboard and mechanism and replaced various borer riddled bits of wood.

Here is my opinion of it after thirty-five years. Used sensibly and with discretion it is certainly a wonderful device for acquiring better finger technique. It isn't as effective for octave playing and next to useless for chords. Because the key pressure can be set higher than that of a piano I can't see a digital piano, with its light touch (well, the ones I've played have had light touches even at maximum level) doing the same job.

Unfortunately, the meagre instructions stuck under the lid give no idea about how to use it really well. I have made mistakes and learned by trial and error (luckily without hurting myself). The one big mistake people usually make is to screw the pressure up beyond the point where finger strokes are any use. What happens is that they try five minutes of heavy scales, return to the piano and find the sensation runs away with them. "How wonderful", they reason. "Therefore if I screw the pressure up twice as much I'll be a virtuoso twice as quickly." WRONG ! This logic is akin to saying that because one man can mow a lawn in half an hour a million men can therefore mow it in a fraction of a second.

Unable to push the keys by finger strokes, they start to do it by leaning and pushing. Pretty soon it results in an absolutely ghastly touch at the piano, loss of sensitivity and the hands and fingers, quite naturally, will react to the misuse by becoming tired and sore.

Okay, that's what not to do. So what is the right way ?

1. I use it at a pressure at most just a little more than my  piano.

2. I don't bother with all those up-clicks and down-clicks - complete waste of time in my opinion. If I want legato I acquire it at the piano in the usual way, listening to what I am doing.

3. It really can make a difference in the area of finger strokes, especially things like double note passages and scales. It is very effective for practising difficult little bits from pieces - say the Chopin study in thirds, the double notes in Feux Follets or sections of Liszt cadenzas.

4. It is not a musical instrument. It is only a gymnastic aid to playing a musical instrument, and therefore I never use it for more than a few minutes a day, certainly no longer than twenty minutes.  

5. Typically a useful session for me involves scale based finger work, double and single note, standard and non-standard, in all keys and in patterns of my own devising - even on a silent keyboard I seem driven to create ! Then I might use a section of a piece as an exercise.

6. I only use the clavier for frequently alternating single handed practice. I find this gives each hand a rest for a few seconds and focuses concentration.


7. The overriding consideration for me is that it is an extremely useful tool for pure finger flexibility, sensitivity and independence. I don't use it for finger "strength" despite what the instructions say. Finger strength per se, I have found to be a dangerous goal on clavier or piano. Playing the piano is not a weightlifting competition and using a clavier for strength results in a catalogue of horrible consequences.


That's what I've found over many years with mine. I can't compare results because I've never met anybody else who uses one. In fact I know of only two similar instruments here in Auckland and they're hardly used at all - just antiques.

[bernhard]

This is extremely interesting.  

I am a great believer in silent practice, but I have never actually used a Virgil Clavier. Have a look in this thread, where there is some more information on silent practice:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=perf;action=display;num=1074210536

To me, silent practice is not really about finger strength (in which I don’t believe anyway) or even finger technique.

It is first and foremost a mental practice. As I play silently, I must “hear” the sounds in my mind. Do you do that?

This of course does not come naturally to anyone, which is why one should practise it. I also think that this is one of the few occasions where a metronome can really help so that your mind creates a real time representation of the music (I am not that crazy about metronomes, and I think most of the time people misuse them, as in the misguided practice procedure of trying to speed up a piece by starting slowly with the metronome and going up a  notch every repeat).

It is also about developing other kinds of memories as opposed to finger and aural memory.

In regards to finger technique, I think the most useful trait is that it forces you to observe the exact locations of your fingers in the keys, and the finger movements you are using, something that when sound is present is very easy to leave to the unconscious. It certainly had a dramatic effect on my finger accuracy.

I agree with you: not something to do for hours on end, but a few minutes a day on selected portions of a piece can be a real eye opener.

Even though I am not that crazy about finger strength, here is an interesting story about Claudio Arrau (one of my favourite pianists). I find it interesting because I would probably disapprove of what he was doing. Nevertheless it clearly worked for him. (In other words: What do I know?). It also shows how piano playing at the advanced level is completely personal and probably not transferable.

Arrau was a great believer on the benefits of the Virgil Clavier, and he certainly liked the idea of playing on a heavier keyboard action. In this story, he actually weighted the keys of his piano so that he would have extra resistance. In this occasion, Arrau was preparing for the Mozart Bicentennial in 1955, where he was to play all of Mozart’s piano sonatas amongst other works:

“At home in Douglaston, he drilled and redrilled, practising with weighted hammers to make his fingers articulate with maximum clarity. His student Philip Lorentz, who heard dry runs of several programs remembers: “You wouldn’t have thought fingers could work so actively. It was a kind of playing I had never seen him do before, with the fingers pulled far back before striking. And he used a kind of flying staccato that was simply dazzling – he would throw his arms and hands at the keys, as if he were shaking water from the fingertips. The ornaments too, were unbelievable – so fast and at the same time so correct.”

(Joseph Horowitz – Arrau on Music and Performance – Dover)

Interestingly enough, Arrau never did the Mozart cycle. He cancelled it because he felt that he could not trust his memory.

Best wishes,
Bernhard

[ted]

Amazing ! I never realised Arrau used one. I do identify with raising the fingers on it though - not always, but certainly sometimes - it's one way of doing it which I must confess I have found does me a lot of good, even if it goes contrary to most teaching.

No, I don't hear the sounds particularly. I'm afraid it's just a physical thing with me - a perfection of the physical yoga (yes, that's the right word - yoga) of piano playing. I know what you mean, and I COULD if I desired, but I tend to concentrate very solidly on physical things at the clavier.

As with most worthwhile studies in life, there are regions of commonality and regions intrinsic to the individual. Knowing which is which must be very hard for a teacher to discern. I don't think I could ever teach for that reason alone. I have found my own path with the clavier and I know it is absolutely right for me, but talking about this has reminded me of the folly of formulating general rules from exceptional experience.

[bernhard]

Amazing ! I never realised Arrau used one.

Not only Arrau, but most of the pianists of his generation and before. Apparently the Virgil Clavier was a must for piano students and pianists at the beginning of the 20th century. There is a fascinating interview with Kincaid Virgil (the inventor of the clavier) in this book:

Piano Mastery: The Harriet Brower Interviews (Dover)

I'm afraid it's just a physical thing with me - a perfection of the physical yoga (yes, that's the right word - yoga) of piano playing.

It is interesting that you mention yoga, because Arrau was very much into yoga at a time when yoga was almost unknown in the West. I think it is very easy to misuse certain contraptions (Schumann immediately comes to mind). But perhaps Arrau (who to my knowledge never suffered from injuries) had just a yogic approach to it rather than an athletic approach which of course makes all the difference.

As with most worthwhile studies in life, there are regions of commonality and regions intrinsic to the individual. Knowing which is which must be very hard for a teacher to discern.

This is very true. Most of the time one does not need to interfere at all. Specially with children they have a natural co-ordination that is far more important than any technical detail. Usually the older ones and the adults are the ones with problems because they lost this natural co-ordination. I never have any problems with postural habits up to six-seven year olds. It is really amazing how beautifully upright and relaxed a four year old can be at the piano. Things start going downhill once they start going to school and all the usual repression starts. Also it is always more effective to be a model for the student to imitate (I could add dangerous too, but the fact is that students will imitate you – good and bad – so I better put my act together!). Unfortunately few teachers are prepared to put the effort to have perfect posture and beautiful co-ordination. And it does not help to see famous pianists (Glenn Gould and Alfred Brendel come to mind) in the most atrocious positions.

Charles Rosen in his latest book (Piano Notes) says something that is very true (and also a bit scary), namely that ultimately technique is ultimately individual. All the efforts of teachers in the first years to mould a student’s technique are ultimately doomed to failure, for a time will come when a student must find for himself what works and what does not work for him. It also means that much of the repertory that he learned in the beginning will have to be abandoned because it will have been learned with the inappropriate technique. So he says he is reluctant to assign the repertory the student really wants to learn too early for this reason. He waits until he sees the student developing his own idiossincratic way of playing.

So it seems that ultimately the role of a teacher should be to facilitate this process rather than impose the latest fad.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[fllucies]

I own a Virgil Practice Clavier - I believe it was made between 1770 and 1790.
It's an incredible tool and in near perfect condition.

I actually just lost my job, and this is the first of my instrumental treasures that I must sell.

If there is anyone interested - flucies@gmail.com

I'd rather not put it up on e-Bay

Fred

[lelle]

(I am not that crazy about metronomes, and I think most of the time people misuse them, as in the misguided practice procedure of trying to speed up a piece by starting slowly with the metronome and going up a  notch every repeat).

Sorry for straying away from original topic but this caught my eye and I have to ask; why is this a "misguided practice procedure"? Do you have any specific advice on how to practise to get a piece up to speed without the metronome? Of course it should be about as easy as doing it with a metronome but I'm wondering about what the specific advantage is?