Best Op.1?

[phil13]

Which composer started off with the best first published piece?

[removed personal opinion due to all the great pieces I forgot about in a hasty answer  ]

Phil

[pianistimo]

theresa carreno's opus 1 - 'gottschalk waltz'

also, she championed mac dowell.  nobody remembers her.  hmmm.  maybe because she's a woman?

[dnephi]

Brahms Opus 1. Sonata in C Major.  Rach 1 concerto is good, but remember that the version you know is not the one Op. 1, but is the harmonically revised version. 

No woman composers were fantastic, I confess.  .  It's their fault, I suppose, for not writing something that fantastic.  Decent, yes.  Good, yes.  Enjoyable, yes.  There are women composers better than some men composers.

But not anything really hardcore.

[opus10no2]

Chopin, or Berg.

[Kassaa]

Chopin, or Berg.

Chopin? Like, dude!

[quantum]

Chopin, or Berg.

If the question was "Best Op. 2?" then I would definitely say Chopin. 

[opus10no2]

Chopin's op1 rondo is VALLY GUD.

[pianistimo]

gottschalk waltz composed in 1863 by theresa carreno at the age of 10.  beat that.

[phil13]

Chopin's op1 rondo is VALLY GUD.

Yeah, but not like the Berg or either of the ones I previously mentioned. It's a nice piece, and it's interesting, but Chopin did WAY better things, and not long afterward.

Rach 1 concerto is good, but remember that the version you know is not the one Op. 1, but is the harmonically revised version.

How do you know what version I know?

I may like the revised version better, but I still believe that the original merits playing.

Phil

[thalbergmad]

Henselt Donizetti Varations.

Quality.

Thal

[iumonito]

Bach's 6 partitas.

[phil13]

Bach's 6 partitas.

Are they really Op.1? Or, rather, BWV 1?

Phil

[thalbergmad]

gottschalk waltz composed in 1863 by theresa carreno at the age of 10.  beat that.

This is the 2nd time you have mentioned this today.

Beat that, hmmmmmmmmmmm, lets think. Mozart Minuet in G, K1, composed at the age of 6.

Thal

[pianistimo]

ruth schonthal composed a sonatina for piano when she was five.  accepted into 'wunderkind' composition school - she deftly wrote this piece out without even looking down.

[thracozaag]

 I'd go with either the Brahms 1st sonata, Schumann Abegg, or the Berg Sonata.

koji

[Mozartian]

Schumann Abegg.

[pianowolfi]

Beethoven piano trios; Szymanowsky preludes; Berg sonata. Op. 1 is mostly not the first composition a composer did, for instance Beethoven wrote a lot before his op. 1, like the Kurfürsten-Sonatas and others.

[thracozaag]

 Obviously, but the question referred to the first published piece by that particular composer.

koji

[mikey6]

Erlkonig!
What was Mendelssohn's op.1? Most of his best stuff was written when he was younger.

[thalbergmad]

If the question was "Best Op. 2?" then I would definitely say Chopin. 

Agreed.

In 10 years this thread will be on best opus 399, where the choices will be somewhat more limited.

Thal

[imbetter]

abegg by schumann

[jre58591]

im tempted to say that rachmaninoff's 1st concerto is a good opus 1, but the original version is very immature and the revision isnt really the same piece (i still like both though).
my vote goes to medtner's 8 mood pictures. theyre in my top 10 favorite medtner pieces (not all 8 of course) and top 50 romantic pieces.

[thracozaag]

  Good call on the Medtner, I had stupidly forgotten about that.

koji

[soliloquy]

Berg, Mosolov, Kodaly

[gruffalo]

im tempted to say that rachmaninoff's 1st concerto is a good opus 1, but the original version is very immature and the revision isnt really the same piece (i still like both though).
my vote goes to medtner's 8 mood pictures. theyre in my top 10 favorite medtner pieces (not all 8 of course) and top 50 romantic pieces.

wasn't rach's op.1 the opera 'Aleko'?

[jre58591]

wasn't rach's op.1 the opera 'Aleko'?

nope. this was written after his graduation from the consevatory. the concerto, i believe, was writen while he was there. he had it published shortly thereafter.

[imbetter]

wasn't rach's op.1 the opera 'Aleko'?

nope

[phil13]

nope. this was written after his graduation from the consevatory. the concerto, i believe, was writen while he was there. he had it published shortly thereafter.

nope

Uhhh...what? What was the point in even posting that, Ibty?

Berg, Mosolov, Kodaly

What is Kodaly's Op.1?

Phil

[counterpoint]

Beethoven's 3 Piano Trios op.1

There is such a mastery of composition in these pieces, which is really outstanding for a opus 1.

[iumonito]

Are they really Op.1? Or, rather, BWV 1?

Phil

Op. 1.  Publishing was not common then.

[el nino]

schumann abegg. one of the greatest pieces by him

[jakev2.0]

Berg's Piano Sonata. Pretty sensational start.

[gymnopedist]

Uhhh...what? What was the point in even posting that, Ibty?

judging from the date, it appears they posted at the same time.

[burstroman]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned one of the seminal works of the Romantic period: Paganini, Op 1, 24 Caprices.

[Nightscape]

There are a lot of good op.1 out there.

I don't think the Abegg variations are substantial enough for the best op.1 but I would definitely put them in the top 10.  The Brahms op.1 is closer, but still doesn't take the cake for me.  The Chopin is most certainly not the best opus one - while a fun piece it somehow lacks something really special to place it in the top ranks.  The Schubert "opus one" is probably the most performed opus one, you hear that song a lot it seems.  Liszt even made a transcription of it so he thought highly of it as well.

The Berg opus 1 is I think the second best opus 1 out there.  It is extremely inventive and very accessible considering how chromatic it is.  Berg shows a mastery of composition already with this work.

But in my opinion the opus one that beats all others are Beethoven's three op.1 piano trios.  Already with these Beethoven had totally mastered the Viennese classical sonata form and was already pushing the boundaries.  Not to mention that there is well over a hours worth of music in this opus 1.  The music seems to have a control rarely heard, yet the music is surprisingly straightforward and simple looking (at least when compared to Berg.)   Some of Beethoven's catchiest tunes are here also, especially in the finales.  The slow movement of the G major trio is especially beautiful.  This is music I would never tire of and is also music that almost anyone can enjoy.

[thalberg]

Berg's Piano Sonata. Pretty sensational start.

woohoo!  That's my piece.  (Wrote a dissertation on it.)

[jlh]

No woman composers were fantastic, I confess.  .  It's their fault, I suppose, for not writing something that fantastic.  Decent, yes.  Good, yes.  Enjoyable, yes.  There are women composers better than some men composers.

You mean "it's NOT their fault?" 

Women have been at a disadvantage societally speaking since the beginning of modern western music history.  Music professions were the domain of men, and women were to learn things that would help them be a better housewife.  If they were musicians, usually they were self-taught or taught informally.  Some women even assumed masculine pen names to get published.  It was not until the 20th century that it became widely acceptable for women to compose and perform.  Many things have changed in the past several decades though, and I fully expect to find some wonderful gems by female composers from now on.

[ramseytheii]

You mean "it's NOT their fault?" 

Women have been at a disadvantage societally speaking since the beginning of modern western music history.  Music professions were the domain of men, and women were to learn things that would help them be a better housewife.  If they were musicians, usually they were self-taught or taught informally.  Some women even assumed masculine pen names to get published.  It was not until the 20th century that it became widely acceptable for women to compose and perform.  Many things have changed in the past several decades though, and I fully expect to find some wonderful gems by female composers from now on.

Wait a second, it might have been more difficult for a woman to enter the profession, at least as an instrumentalist or composer, but it cannot be denied that women had the best training and instruction music ever had to offer.  Who are you thinking of that was self-taught or informally taught?  Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Czerny, Chopin, and Liszt were barraged with women students, usually of the upper class.  They had to teach these people to make a living. 

Walter Ramsey

[retrouvailles]

Guys, this is a thread about the best Opus 1. Take this discussion to a thread about how women composers do(n't) suck.

I'll go with Berg and Medtner (specifically Opus 1 No. 1).

[pita bread]

Berg

[Nightscape]

Another great op. 1 I forgot to mention is Webern.  The Passacaglia op.1 is not representative of Webern, but it nonetheless is masterly written piece that seriously pushes the limits of tonality.

[jlh]

Lowell Liebermann
Piano Sonata No.1 Op.1 (1977)

First Performance: 15 May 1977 Carnegie Recital Hall, NYc. Lowell Liebermann, piano

Dedicated to Stephen Hough

Outstanding Composition Award, Yamaha Music Foundation, Tokyo, Japan, 1982
First Prize, National Composition Contest, Music Teachers National Association, 1978

[retrouvailles]

Have you ever actually heard that sonata? I find much of Liebermann's output to be behind its time and not that original compositionally (I have not heard that sonata).

[Nightscape]

I've seen and heard some Liebermann and find his piano writing to be a little formulaic.  It's tonal music with some chromatic coloring - a bit spicier than Rachmaninoff but less interesting nonetheless.

[elevateme_returns]

GOT to be brahms.

[jlh]

Have you ever actually heard that sonata? I find much of Liebermann's output to be behind its time and not that original compositionally (I have not heard that sonata).

I did a paper comparing this sonata with his second sonata.  If you look at his output, it seems that he was more 'cutting-edge' in the beginning and became more neo-romantic later on (after he graduated).  This thread only considers the Op. 1 though, so that's why I added it.  I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the best Op. 1 ever, but like others, I would add it to the list.

[retrouvailles]

Oh, then perhaps I think I would have to go out and hear this then. I've heard a good chunk of Liebermann and most of it has left me unimpressed. I will check out that sonata though, since I enjoy a good, cutting-edge composer.

[etudes]

GOT to be brahms.

first time i agree with you 

[jacobwynn]

Rachmaninov Concerto 1.

But in the revised version.

(I'm cheating here, aren't I?)

[retrouvailles]

Rachmaninov Concerto 1.

But in the revised version.

(I'm cheating here, aren't I?)

You are. It doesn't really count because he revised it. The original version would be a valid choice.

Balakirev's 1st Piano Concerto is worthy of a nomination. Its a nice little gem that definitely needs more attention.