Flat little finger when loud - bad habit or useful tool?

[timothy42b]

I'm playing a contemporary praise and worship song this sunday with the team.

It has a quick syncopated melody line that the singers are having trouble with, so I've been chording with the left hand and banging out the melody on the right. 

My right hand little finger does most of the heavy lifting on this one, and it gets tired. 

Part way through the last practice I realized all of a sudden it had become much much easier - I was playing faster and louder with less effort.  I looked down and my little finger had adjusted itself (totally without asking permission) so it was no longer playing on the tip but down on the shaft. 

So what do you think?  It works, but seems like cheating. 

[leahcim]

Part way through the last practice I realized all of a sudden it had become much much easier - I was playing faster and louder with less effort.  I looked down and my little finger had adjusted itself (totally without asking permission) so it was no longer playing on the tip but down on the shaft. 

So what do you think?  It works, but seems like cheating. 

Cavear emptor as always but...IMHO "heavy work" "banging" - might be figures of speech - but they are suggestive that you're using more effort than you need to.

I'm fairly sure that trying to get higher melody notes to play over the bass by using effort is why I injured my right arm. It's almost a subconscious thing that you play louder to get the same volume [I'm left handed too, which probably accounts for less control over the right hand as well]

A piano teacher showed me something - It was just an exercise to play notes with the little finger(s) by moving lowering your hand with your arm from above the key, but you lower the arm very slowly and brush / press the key so softly that the force used to lower the key actually pushes the playing finger(s) back. At the lowest point you feel like you're "inside" the keys and if you hold the note, you're holding it with not much more effort than the non playing fingers.

The result is, as best I can describe it, visually similar to Yundi li's playing. Someone described that on youtube as "the fingers are pressing down the keys, but everything else is relaxed" [but in fact the arm is playing through a loose wrist]

You should be able to get loud without much more effort at all than that. At the same time you can play from the key rather than the exaggerated lowering, but still keep the essence of the movement and the feeling you get in your arms and fingers when you do it.

I'm finding it's a case of taking that basic idea and then applying irrespective of the position my fingers need to be in to play - whether that's flatter or more curved. I see that as a bit of a red herring TBH, I can do the same relaxed movement with my hands held as loose fists or with the palms.

To apply it to playing took a bit more mental effort though. Obviously to play you'll move the fingers from position to position, so your fingers do move. You can't play every note by lowering from above as in the exercise, and I found it more tricky to switch from finger to finger whilst keeping the same 'no effort' feeling, especially with pieces I've played but once I did, things like playing, say, the scales in K545 were much, much easier.

With the tension gone some of the stuff about the arm being used to make gestures and shape phrases that others have talked about begin to make sense too.

[danny elfboy]

Part way through the last practice I realized all of a sudden it had become much much easier - I was playing faster and louder with less effort.  I looked down and my little finger had adjusted itself (totally without asking permission) so it was no longer playing on the tip but down on the shaft.   

You are not supposed to play with the "tips" of your fingers
The tips are weak. To play with the tips means that you're bending the two end joint of the finger. The tips are also small and this means that less amount of flesh is kinestethically conditioned. You should play with the largest fleshy part of the last phalange
This means that the finger is neither flat neither curled but somewhat in between the two extremes (no bend joints)

Look at my posts "Rather Flat Fingers (anyone)" and "Curled vs. Arched fingers"

[pianogeek_cz]

Danny, I'd be careful about saying you shouldn't play with the tips of your fingers. The more curved position (Though position is a bad word here, since the hand moves constantly and so is in no one position to count on... What you speak about as position would more likely qualify as some sort of a model where the fingers should return when the hand stops playing.) does provide very good vertical control, such as you need in fast p or pp runs (Mozart and such). Plus, it's quite useful for a more glassy and chimy touch. Of course it's not the only way, but I wouldn't throw it away as a whole.

To the original question: I don't see anything wrong with -not- playing with the tip of the fifth finger, though. As long as it doesn't hurt or get tense (which is the preliminary step to hurting), it should be all right. However, watch out for the outermost joint of the little finger - it definitely should not bend inwards. That can lead to quite annoying indispositions and, when neglected for longer periods of time, injury.

Leahcim's is definitely some good advice.

[ramseytheii]

I'm playing a contemporary praise and worship song this sunday with the team.

It has a quick syncopated melody line that the singers are having trouble with, so I've been chording with the left hand and banging out the melody on the right. 

My right hand little finger does most of the heavy lifting on this one, and it gets tired. 

Part way through the last practice I realized all of a sudden it had become much much easier - I was playing faster and louder with less effort.  I looked down and my little finger had adjusted itself (totally without asking permission) so it was no longer playing on the tip but down on the shaft. 

So what do you think?  It works, but seems like cheating. 

I suspect you are halfway there.  When you play with the little finger, you shouldnt' just play with the finger, but with the whole side of that hand.  In addition, there should be an "unbroken thread" of energy that goes down your shoulder, the outside part your arm, to the outside part of youar hand, to your little finger.  By placing the finger flat, you relieved some of the taughtness of the muscles that should be operating to make the pinky play effectively, but now you have to identify and realize how those all coordinate.  It is not so much the position of the finger (though that helped you to relax) as it is knowing how to use it.

I hope this is partway helpful.

Walter Ramsey

[timothy42b]

Thanks.

All of your comments are helpful, in different ways.

I'll continue to pay attention and try to relax.  I sometimes need more volume and tend to use muscle to get it.  I'm sure that's wrong but not always sure what to do about it.

If the fingers curl the tips will meet the keys at about 45 degrees.  But at that point if the wrist goes either low or high the angle increases.  More people seem to play well with wrists high and it looks less awkward.  I watch closely any time I'm near someone who seems to play well, it's getting a free extra lesson.