Are teachers expected to demonstrate well?

[feu vert]

I don't know if it is normal for teachers not to be able to demonstrate student's exam pieces. I'm taking grade 8 this year and I feel i'm not getting much "help" from lessons. Basically I learn the pieces myself from listening to the AB CD ( bec my sight-reading is atrocious). So I already got the "blueprint" but I feel I'm not able to improve very much more from my lessons.

Ok, the teacher would make some comments here and there about the rhythm, dynamics  and accents but these aren't really helpful. bec I myself could tell when my rhythm is off ( usually bec i can't manage the speed required due to fingering problem or wrong hands movement which I can't solve myself )and Dynamics can easily be improved with more practice .

Bec my teacher is unable to play (even small sections)fluently, I am not sure if she understands what my problem really is. Is it bec I do not understand the correction or is it due to the fingering or hand movement ? Worse, sometimes I'm not entirely convinced she knows her stuff.

Am i wrong to say that the teacher ought to have studied and played the piece so that they know what their students are " going through" ?

And there's the question of "inspiration" and "motivation". I never have the " wow! I can't wait to run home to practise so that I could sound like you !" kind of feeling when I hear my teacher play. It's more like " er...are you doing sight-reading here? "

I like my teacher but I don't like the disappointment after lessons thinking " what have i learnt again? " 

Do you teachers demonstrate to your higher grade students? Am I expecting too much from my teacher?

[Bob]

Go to another teacher.  If it's before a performance, there's no harm in getting a second (or third) opinion.

[counterpoint]

I'm taking grade 8 this year and I feel i'm not getting much "help" from lessons.

Thats the point: if you don't get help from your lessons, why do you take lessons? It seems very clear in my view that you should search a better teacher, one, who really helps you to get better.

The other thing: if a teacher has many students, it is not always possible to demonstrate every single piece in a perfect way. Often it's sightreading. But even then it should be fluent, clearly shaped, with good fingering and sound convincing. If the teacher has problems even with relative easy pieces, then this can become a great confidence problem.

[sjskb]

I think the answer is very obvious. You need a more competent teacher... To be able to teach grade 8, a teacher needs at least a diploma or higher qualification... As such, I would expect such a teacher to be able to play grade 8 exam pieces with great ease, or even sightread it almost perfectly.

You are right to say that you are not that sure if your teacher understands the problem. Of course she can't understand if she did not try it out herself. It's just like a driving instructor. Would you hire a driving instructor who can't drive himself, but knows all the technicalities about driving?

Sadly, lots of piano teachers are like yours in my country... You need a teacher who continues to play/perform/practice regularly.

my words are rather strong, i know. But I am quite pissed off with incompetent teachers cheating money out of their students. 

[quantum]

At higher grade levels it is not always possible to learn all your student's pieces.  As you get more advanced, the teacher is more likely to just play an excerpt. 

I think it is more important that a teacher have the skills to solve problems they have never encountered before rather than learn the entire repertoire in order to teach it.  The former teaches active problem solving skills, the latter teaches another persons interpretation. 


That said, if you are really unhappy with your teacher you need to change.  It's not productive learning when the student doesn't trust the teacher. 

[danny elfboy]

The most important thing a teacher can do is showing you the correct movements at the piano buy playing himself/herself correctly. In fact showing you the correct hand position and movements is basically the only difference between having a teacher or being self-taught
If a teacher fails to provide that she or he has failed 99% of what her or his role is

There's no more powerful learning tool than imitation
Showing something and asking the student to imitate that is what 90% of learning is all about

[jeremyjchilds]

True, a teacher does not need to play well to teach well.


But let's live in the real world. All things being equal, the teacher who can play well is much better because of the respect factor.

It is obvious that you do not respect this teacher. This is a problem.

You need someone that you can trust with reckless abandon. Please talk with your teacher and express your concerns before moving on. many teacher do not learn the pieces that theier students play. Ask your teacher if she will be able to do this..

[pianowelsh]

A good teacher doesnt show you how THEY do it, they release your own ability to get around the problem...its more about instilling concepts and developing helpfull ways of problem solving and practising.  I try to have a look over pieces that my more advanced students study but it is largely sightreading or things i played ages ago!! The teacher needs to play with 'quality' but doesnt need to be able to sit down and play the piece in its entirety, the student has been practising it the piano teacher cant be expected to have all their students pieces at their fingertips.  I work on my own repertoire and chamber music as well as teaching I simply dont have the time to learn about 20 grade 8 pieces as well. Fortunately im a pretty decent sightreader and widely knowledgable about repertoire. This is actually far more important when it comes to teaching.

[danny elfboy]

A good teacher doesnt show you how THEY do it, they release your own ability to get around the problem...its more about instilling concepts and developing helpfull ways of problem solving and practising.

A good teacher doesn't have to be able to play the whole piece as if in a recital
But she or he must be able to show at the keyboard the correct movements of hard sections the student have problems to. If a teacher fails to provide demonstrative work at the keyboard then she or he is failing to provide the only prerogative he or she can have

In my conservatory there are lot of external students
They are admitted in the school for exams but they're self-taught
So even the school and the council recognize that students are perfectly able to self-teach to themselves efficient practicing and concepts.
In other words THESE are not prerogative of teachers, are not the reason why a teacher is useful.

The only prerogative of a teacher which a self-taught student lacks is having someone showing you at the keyboard the correct wrist, fingers, hand and arm movements in those sections the student have problem with. Demonstration at the keyboard is the prerogative of the teacher and is the most useful didactic material a teacher can provide. Our brains is wired to learn by demonstration (and imitation) rather than bland words

[pianowelsh]

Perhaps in my haste I didnt express myself fully.  When I say concepts I take that to include concepts of good fingering, correct posture and positioning regarding the keys and jumps etc, correct usage of fingers for producing tonal effects etc... i count all these and more as concepts.. Alos of course concepts of good practising..looking at the difficulty and assessing what kind of work is required...a teacher MUST help in these areas - especially with younger (pre -college students). Once these are laid the teachers role. Teachers must seek ways of helping the student to become a self teacher...asking the correct questions to lead the student to apply the knowledge they have and when necessary steering them into new concepts and helping them to arrange their learning in terms of priorities.  A teacher certainly isnt there just to show you how the hard bits go.. that may be part of what they do if its called for.  Certainly at my time in conservatory a professor would have taken a fit if you had brought a piece to your lesson unable to get around the hard bits.  They expected that you do that kind of basic work yourself.  they were there to take you on from that.  But we are speaking about a very specific level of instruction and the vast majority of people do not teach at the college level. The way you teach a student at gd1 is very different from how you work with someone doing a DMA in piano performance.

[keyofc]

I think whether or not they know the whole piece is not so important;
but they should be able to take the parts the student is having difficulty with and work them out with the student.

If I was going to a teacher that could not do that - I don't see how I could benefit.
Why don't you try communicating to your teacher your problem.
Next time they point out a rhtym problem - that is being caused from perhaps another problem - ask them how to help you avoid it - and why you are making it at that particular passage.  If they can't help you - then I would definetly decide soon to find another teacher.

Many times it's the way we move our hand - the way we move our arm that slows us down - the fingering we choose can slow us down or help us  - therefore delaying the rhtymn.

[pianowelsh]

when practising i used to write down things in the margin to ask my teacher...some of them really didnt like that...I think they didnt know the answers in hindsight.  I survived!

[chocolatedog]

Or at least a teacher should be able to say - leave it with me, I'll try it this week and see if I can come up with a solution for this awkward bit (or whatever the problem is).

[pianowelsh]

agreed... this would be ideal. Not all teachers can or do take the time.

[mattgreenecomposer]

MAN DID I RUN INTO THIS PROBLEM GROWING UP!!!
I agree with Chocalate dog.  Tell your teacher you want to hear it next week from him/her, if they can't play it then you've got a problem.  Today, I'm a teacher, and I try to work on my students repertoire atleast a litlle bit during the week  if they are doing something pretty advanced-so I don't look like a moron.  On the other hand, time is a factor so they might not be able to handle every body's music from begining to the end of every piece.  Don't ask them to play the whole piece but, instead target a specific section with your request.  If they still don't handle it well when you specifically ask them a week in advance I'd say find someone else.  ITS OUR JOB TO HELP YOU!

[stevehopwood]

When I cannot play an advanced piece being played by a student, I learn it. This is a great way to add to my repertoire of teaching pieces.

Having said that, there is no doubt that my best teaching at advanced levels happens when the student is playing a piece I have performed live. I really know what I am talking about then.

This does not always mean that I play to my students. Mostly it does, and I love the expressions on their faces when, for example, I play with ease a passage with my left hand that they are struggling to play with their right hand. Born show-off, me.

 

[pianorama]

My piano teacher is amazing. I still am not sure if he has just already learned all the songs he demonstrates for me, or if he is just a great sight-reader. He is not afraid to demonstrate, one of his qualities that I think makes him a spectacular teacher. With him since September 2006, I went from getting an 89 for my highest mark for festival last year to 89 for my lowest mark for the festival this year. I think you need a new teacher. Hmm and interesting name, feu vert... green fire lol I like green fire! It's so unusual, and it looks so cool... ok sorry a bit off topic here but yeah I think that a teacher should be at least be able to demonstrate at least an excerpt well enough to get his/her point across

[pianowelsh]

There are many things to be respected here...Teachers like Fanny Waterman even demonstrate several different approaches to a passage 'this is how so and so does it , and this is how she does it etc'...not every advanced level teacher does this though and they must still be respected.  One must remember you are paying the teacher to teach you NOT play to you...they could command a lot more if they wanted a performance fee for playing to you as well as teaching! I would certainly NEVER demand of a professor or advanced level teacher that they play something for me...it would be extremely disrespectful and out of place to do so...they are not our students WE are theirs. Many top teachers do not claim to know all the repertoire through their fingers..which may be a contreversial point but they cannot be expected to...they can usually cite pieces in the same genre that they have performed though and this is good enough.  One has to recognise also that the teaching schedule of many teachers dosent really allow them the time to spend hours practising repertoire of their own - let alone their students...think how much your lessons would have to cost if you were to pay your teacher for the time they spent practising all the pieces you are learning...frankly Noone could afford it! Also for many advanced teachers who are also advnacd in years..it may have been decades since they performed at a high level or were in college.. they still have a knowledge of how to play well and have gained considerable experience teaching but they may be rusty at the playing side..in practical terms..does this mean they are not worthy of respect or dont know what they are talking about? Certainly not.   We need to be very carefull not to presume too much

If you really think your teachers isnt sufficiently knowledgeable/experineced/qualified enough a pianist to be teaching you then look around some other teachers and make the break tactfully.  I would say rather judge your teacher on their ability to teach NOT their ability to play.