is lang lang good or not?

[stevensk]

Sometimes very good sometimes a joke

[thomasshiraza]

Lang Lang is an absolute disgrace to pianists today. And it sickens me when i hear him treat the composers that i respect so much. I really dont think he's fitted for classical, romantic, and specially  baroque. I dont have anything against his personality, in fact i like his campaigns and everything like that....But please, dont support the guys playing. He needs to remind himself that he is a Pianist and not a entertainer

If you want to listen yourself go ahead.

[stevensk]

Lang lang is the modern version of Franz Liszt. Technical brilliance associated whith charisma and sometimes really really bad taste

[thalbergmad]

Just about the worst insult concerning Liszt i have ever seen.

The great one would turn in his grave if he knew he was being compared to that clown

Thal

[ahinton]

Just about the worst insult concerning Liszt i have ever seen.

The great one would turn in his grave if he knew he was being compared to that clown

It would be hard to disagree with that; such a statement is about as absurd, insulting, gratuitous and unfounded as that which certain petty Parisian bureaucrats have earlier this week levelled at the memory of Henri Dutilleux in refusing a commemorative plaque in his honour; for the petition against this nonsensical act, please visit https://www.change.org/p/non-%C3%A0-la-calomnie-sur-le-compositeur-henri-dutilleux-apposition-d-une-plaque-comm%C3%A9morative?just_created=true and add your signature to the current tally of almost 5,500 including composers Colin Matthews, John Casken, Oliver Knussen, John Pickard, Pascal Dusapin, George Benjamin et moi, oboist Nicholas Daniel, pianists Anne Queffélec and François-Frédéric Guy, soprano Françoise Pollet and many other distinguished musicians, scholars, academics and "ordinary" French citizens who are likewise outraged at this gross act of ignorance towards a composer and huiman being of such unassailable integrity.

OK - digressive rant over and back to Lang Lang, I suppose; I agree that his campaigning activities have been and continue to be of value, but take away the physical histrionics that so characterise his performance presentations and one is left with a very ordinary pianist indeed - and I would have thought that the very last descriptor that any thinking person would seek to apply to the piano playing of Franz Liszt is "ordinary"...

Best,

Alistair

[stevensk]

Ohh. sorry, I totally forgot the holy holy notion that everything was best in the past. We must humbly kneel in front of portrait of the GREAT masters!
-Of course "la campanella" and all of these "GREAT" Liszt opera transcrtiptions  is a really really essential piece of art!      


-OMG  

[thalbergmad]

-Of course "la campanella" and all of these "GREAT" Liszt opera transcrtiptions  is a really really essential piece of art!      

In the hands of Bang Bang, they are not art at all.

Thal

[chopinlover01]

The only piece I could see Lang Lang pulling off just as well as everyone else is John Cage's 4'33.....

[perfect_pitch]

The only piece I could see Lang Lang pulling off just as well as everyone else is John Cage's 4'33.....

I'm sure even he could f@#$ it up.

[amytsuda]

Someone told me that Lang Lang is going to be the new Liberace    So I looked up who's Liberace, and when I found who is Liberace, I thought this was really really funny and on the point.   

I think what he does in promoting music is really great. Only thing I don't like is Lang Lang's teaching those kids. I don't think he should be teaching. Kids would develop wrong habits and miss all the art on the score provided from great composers.

[8_octaves]

Someone told me that Lang Lang is going to be the new Liberace    [...]

Hi amy, I don't think Lang Lang will succeed in that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OTRa2FeSGs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-UdsW_UpJk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLTJ2ykad-k


cordially, 8_octaves!

[amytsuda]

Oh, wow, I guess I should have said Lang Lang is "aspiring to" become the next Liberace... instead of "going to".

[stevensk]

Oh, wow, I guess I should have said Lang Lang is "aspiring to" become the next Liberace... instead of "going to".

"The new liberace" is already occupied by Robert Wells

[stoat_king]

Imo, neither Robert Wells nor Lang Lang have anything like the showmanship of Liberace.

Like everyone else, I enjoy Lang Langs clowning and the faces he pulls, but he's no Liberace.
If you held a 'Classical piano and gurning' competition, he would win effortlessly.

The thing Robert Wells seems to have going is his hair. Look at it! Thats politician-grade hair - feathered and deadly. The suit is also very good. But like Lang Lang, he lacks the stage presence.

[mjames]

people still wasting their time arguing about who sucks or not...sad

[stevensk]

people still wasting their time arguing about who sucks or not...sad

..and you are wasting your valuable time reading this simple awful thread? Must be a horrible sacrifice..

[8_octaves]

people still wasting their time arguing about who sucks or not...sad

u may be right, mjames. But: If nobody sucks, and nobody rulez - in our opinions - , and all would be the same:

How boring, then, would the world be, hm? 

cordially, 8_oct!

[bronnestam]

So I also wasted my time reading a part of this thread and I have now reported it to the moderators, hoping it will be removed and banned as quickly as possible.

SHAME ON YOU. Last time I looked, Lang Lang was a famous and successful pianist with a huge fan base. Which certainly differs him from all you losers, but nevertheless is no excuse for writing mean comments about him. (Jealous?) You don't have to like his style at all, but you have no right to ridicule him. He is as human as everyone else, he is also a fellow piano lover and if he wishes to enter this community he should feel most welcome and you should feel honoured.

If you have nothing better to discuss, maybe you should go offline. Now, over and out from me.

[stevensk]

Well said Bronnestam! I suspect that 80 % of all criticism againt Lang Lang is sheer Jealousy.

[thalbergmad]

I am jealous of many pianists, but he is not one of them. Why would i be jealous of someone who plays Chopin so badly for instance.

Anoyne who rates this clown as one of the greats is allowing themselves to get carried away on a wave of public euphoria which results in the dimming of senses and judgement.

Thal

[8_octaves]

I am jealous of many pianists, but he is not one of them. Why would i be jealous of someone who plays Chopin so badly for instance.

Anoyne who rates this clown as one of the greats is allowing themselves to get carried away on a wave of public euphoria which results in the dimming of senses and judgement.

Thal

I would - at least partly - agree with Thalberg, but I think we should have a closer look on Liberace, too, because I am not sure all of us know of whom we speak, when we mention Liberace. But at first:

I think Lang Lang is another example for how different taste / sensation of the audience is, when watching and listening to a celebrity. It simply seems to polarize. But different opinions will occur inevitably, and this the more, the more present a pianist is in public / public view.

What astonished me personally (not that it would be too important, but nevertheless: it did), was the comparison to Liberace.

Now, what do we have as facts?
As you perhaps know, Paderewski had an eye on Liberace, he even recommended to him that he should use only the name "Liberace" when performing in public. Paderewski became friend of Liberace's family. Liberace, as we can take from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberace#Early_career

, did this:

The 20-year-old played with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra on January 15, 1940, at the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, performing Liszt's Second Piano Concerto under the baton of Hans Lange, for which he received strong reviews.

An early, but long-lasting piano teacher of Liberace was Florence Bettray-Kelly, of whom we can get the following information via GoogleBooks ("Liberace: An American Boy", by Darden Asbury Pyron):

[...]"Florence Kelly had earned a bachelor's and a master's degree at the Chicago Musical College. She had studied with Paul Stoye, Rudolph Reuter, Mori(t)z Rosenthal, and Glenn Dilliard Gunn."[...]

Liberace, in an interview (or: recording of an interview) shown on German TV many years ago, said:

"Maybe I'm not as good as Horowitz, but I have "money to burn!" ( In German: "Geld wie Heu". )

As does, perhaps, Lang Lang, but earning money is an unsecure factor to be evaluated here, since Liberace is dead and LL is alive.

And in my opinion Liberace has a super music-feeling and technique (which, as we know, are inseparably connected), some of his movements / moves may be unnecessary, but they aren't TRAINED. Not trained, but they come from heart.

And he can play the difficult (at least for some people, who don't like to play octaves) octaves in the op. 53-Polonaise with a smile. But, as we must simply accept, not with a grimace!

He (or other persons, like some Gordon Robinson, as mentioned in another sub-forum here) made up some "not too easy" arrangements, some longer, some shorter, as we can see on youtube.
And his aim was to make a show - which he honestly admitted.-

As should do Lang Lang. Shouldn't he?

Lang Lang, on the other hand, had, I think, very hard and very good training in the Chinese conservarories, and after that, as is stated, he became pupil of Graffman (who is one of the three REAL Horowitz-students, the number I mentioned somewhere ago.)

When someone has this super education, then I would - personally and subjectively - expect more from him. More self control, e.g.

Because otherwise, - and as I can see from other boards, too - he will succeed for the "broad masses", but in comparison to the real Giants he won't, I think. And this is my personal opinion.
But he has fanclubs, as well, for example this one, but it's in German language.

https://www.langlang-fanclub.com/ueber-lang-lang/biograpfie/

My suggestion would be: Let's accept: he polarizes.
He can play the black-keys-etude with an orange under the right hand - maybe Liberace couldn't.

Cordially, 8_octaves!!

[thalbergmad]

- he will succeed for the "broad masses", but in comparison to the real Giants he won't, I think. And this is my personal opinion.

Well put. He will only ever appeal to those who have low standards and are fooled by his antics.

Grosvenor is a million x the pianist and will end up being one of the greats.

Thal

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I cannot understand the jealousy argument. Is Lang Lang a better pianist than I am? Yes. Do I like his playing? No, with a few exceptions. Am I jealous of him? Not remotely. I'm not jealous of Cziffra either, and he's my idol and an inspiration. I can state without doubt that there are two people who have been regular posters here in the past, and if they were playing on the same night as LL, I'd move heaven and earth to hear either of them and not LL. (Oh, and I'm not jealous of them either.) I simply do not get why jealousy should enter into it. I judge myself against whether I'm doing things as well as I can, not against others. And btw, Grosvenor is quite a pianist.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

This comment should close the thread.

Is he good?  YES.  Is he my favorite? No.

I mean come on now.  If you guys picked your most disliked recordings of him and used them to audition for ANY music school with his , he would get in with a full ride easy. 

Like come on, it's not even debatable.  He's easily one of the best right now.

You can dislike his playing all you want.  But you can't deny that he's talented, he loves what he does, and he has worked very hard to get to where he's at right now. 

[outin]

Like come on, it's not even debatable.  He's easily one of the best right now.

Not in my books I'm afraid...I could make a long list of present pianists I much rather listen to.

And THIS would be a good post to end this thread 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Not in my books I'm afraid...I could make a long list of present pianists I much rather listen to.

And THIS would be a good post to end this thread  

Name 100 current pianists you would rather listen to over him.  I don't even know 100 pianists
Alive or dead.

[outin]

Name 100 current pianists you would rather listen to over him.  I don't even know 100 pianists
Alive or dead.

Of course the pianists repertoire choices will also affect my willingness to listen to them....I need to go to work, so here are just a few that popped into my mind...

Andras Schiff
Stephen Hough
Idil Biret
Danny Driver
Dubravka Tomsic
Maria Pires
Stephen Coombs
Howard Shelley
Vladimir Ashkenazy

And that's excluding some of the great ones that are nearing retirement (like Pollini, Algerich)....And then a long list lot of younger or internationally less known pianists you've probably never heard of...

My long list may not be 100, maybe just 80. This is mainly because I do not normally have any need to make such lists...

If you don't know 100 living pianists, then maybe you are excused  

EDIT: MY list would also include some Asian pianists, I just have trouble in general remembering people's names...

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Some of his worse performances (eg the Mozart sonata movement at the Proms a few years back, sorry can't be more precise, the only thing that stuck in my mind was the sheer egregiousness of the rendition) would assuredly result in some very raised professorial eyebrows! I was trying to list current pianists who I would rather hear LL than: so far, excluding cranks and the wilfully obscure, I've got to two.

[j_menz]

excluding cranks and the wilfully obscure

They're often my favourites. Especially for pieces I play. Not much joy as far as a  great overall performance is concerned but often a surprising insight into some aspects of the piece.

[8_octaves]

If you don't know 100 living pianists, then maybe you are excused  

EDIT: MY list would also include some Asian pianists, I just have trouble in general remembering people's names...

My list has 100. I think the proficiency of all of them seems to perform better (or their position in the world of piano teaching or music) is more important than LL's.

But note: It contains 2 or three teachers as well, who didn't (or: rarely) perform(ed) in public, so there aren't (or: there don't seem to be) recordings of them. Some of them only stem from my own circle of acquaintances, and,, as I must repeat: It's only SUBJECTIVE and PERSONAL opinion of mine.

Nevertheless, let's go...:

1 Adam Harasiewicz , 2 Vladimir Ashkenazy, 3 Aleksandra Mikulska (look!) , 4 Ewa Kupiec, 5 Martha Argerich, 6 Stanislaw Bunin, 7 Bernd Glemser, 8 Daniel Pollack, 9 Ivo Pogorelich, 10 Maurizio Pollini, 11 Michael Ponti, 12 Marc-Andre Hamelin, 13 Jörg Demus, 14 Murray Perahia, 15 Ingolf Wunder, 16 Leon Fleisher, 17 Gary Graffman, 18 David Helfgott, 19 Byron Janis, 20 Ivan Davis, 21 Krystian Zimerman, 22 Helene Grimaud, 23 Rudolf Buchbinder, 24 Valentina Lisitsa, 25 Daniil Trifonov, 26 Rafal Blechacz, 27 Beate ("Beatrice") Berthold, 28 Einar Steen-Nokleberg, 29 Peter Serkin, 30 Gerrit Zitterbart, 31 Natalia Schwamova, 32 Kit Armstrong, 33 Anthony Olson, 34 Lincoln Mayorga, 35 Noboyuki Tsujii, 36 Janusz Olejniczak (whom i saw in a TV docu many years ago playing the op 53 polonaise ), 37 Cecile Licad, 38 Philip Martin, 39 Antonio Iturrioz (whose "El Cocoye" on YT is mindblasting, imho !! Note: He was very ill, for a time, losing control of one of his hands! But then, luckily,  it seems to have become better, again!! ), 40 Brunhilde "Bruni" Herbel (who was student of Cortot and friend and classmate (in normal school, when she was young) to my mother ), but I don't think you know about her. 41  Boris Berezovsky (look out for his "Old Vienna" by Godowsky! ),  42 Piotr Andrczewski, 43 Leif Ove Andsnes, 44 Paul Badura-Skoda, 45 Dmitry Bashkirov...46  and his daughter Elena Bashkirova, 47 Luiza Borac ( whom I heard and saw life in concert, Chopin-Etudes / Beethoven op. 111), 48 Tai-Hang-Du ( whom I heard and saw life in a Debussy-concert), but who perhaps isn't known to all of us, 49 Idil Biret, 50 Fazil Say (maybe, but I'm not too convinced.), 51 Alfred Brendel ( I don't like his playing and stage-presence too much, but he's famous!),  52 Abdel Rahman El Bacha, 53 The following three Eliza-Hansen-Students: 1 ) Christoph Eschenbach, 54 2. ) ...Justus Frantz, 55 3. ) ...and Shoko "LB" Kuroe, 56 Prof. Peter Feuchtwanger, 57 ...and one of his master-students, Stephan !! MANY greetings to you, if you should read this !!!!, 58 Alexander Libermann and many of his students (and some grandchild-students)   , 59  Vladimir Feltsman, 60 Janina Fialkowska, 61 Homero Francesch, 62 Andrei Gavrilov, 63 Andreas Groethuysen ( and his duo-partner Yaara Tal), 64 Angela Hewitt, 65 Leslie Howard (of whom I have a super recording of "Sophie Menter's" "Ungarische Zigeunerweisen", i got it as a present. ), 66 Cyprien Katsaris ( though he was struck by an illness, which I was very sad about, I dislike his arrangement of Gottschalk's "Banjo", but I like his recordings of some of Amedee Mereaux' (very hard) "Etudes" very much, which are on YT! ), 67 Freddy Kempff (with 2 f? maybe. He can be found on YT as well! Check him out!), 68  Evgenyi Kissin ( I don't like his playing too much, but I think it's better than LL's ), 69 Radu Lupu ( unforgettable with the cigar in Beethoven's alla Turca, imho), 70 Olli Mustonen ( I like his name! ), 71 Garrick Ohlsson, 72 Dieter Goldmann (I'm not sure whether he's alive or not, but I've got 2 Chopin-Concert-recordings of his on CD - very nice! ), 73 Alfredo Perl, 74 Maria Joao Pires (who quickly replaced one Mozart-Concert with another, since orch had practised the "wrong" one), 75 Gabriela Montero, who is Venezuelan born, like Teresa Carreno was, 76 Mikhail Pletnev, 77 Tzvi Erez (who, on YT, shows a , imho, very nice performing of the "military" polonaise of Chopin!),  78 Pascal Roge ( who, recently, was topic of a competition-quarrel, but that would be to discuss on another place, I think), 79 Olga Scheps,  80 Dimitris Sgouros (I heard him on TV many years ago, playing Chopin Ballade g-minor. Some attack him, because of the lack of musical depth, but I think he would outmaneuvre LL. ), 81 Norman Shetler, 82 Grigory Sokolov (I don't like some of his moves, but for LL his playing would be sufficient, I think. ), 83 Martin Stadtfeld, 84 Mitsuko Uchida, 85 Arie Vardi, 86 Tamas Vasary, 87 Andre Watts ( of course!!! I experienced him years ago with the SaintSaens 2nd concert on TV...but watch out for his Liszt b-minor-sonata on YT, too! ), 88 Arcadi Volodos (maybe), 89 Elisso Virsaladze, 90 Anatol Ugorski (check out his mindblasting Chopin-Fugue a-minor on YT!! I love that sooo much!! ), 91 Emanuel Ax, 92 Robert DeGaetano, 93 Tobias Göbel, who was a pupil of Kämmerling, in the city I - near- come from. Thus, maybe not known to all of us. He bacame a teacher, but when once I heard him live in a concert hall, he didn't manage the Ocean Etude as encore too well, but he succeeded in the Grieg a minor concerto. He's good, I think. 94 Cory Hall (BachScholar), on YT. Though some might not like his playing very much, as I could see.   , 95 Jonathan Plowright (check out the "banjo" on yt!) , 96 "Yuya" Wang, 97 Y. Avdeeva (Chopin-Competition-winner. Not really my taste, but she did it. Did LL ? ), 98 Peter Rösel (comes from the former DDR (GDR)). I dislike him, because on German TV he once upon a time he discouraged amateurs very much OFF the Waldstein-sonata (which, unfortunately, I was learning just at that time.) I "kicked" his words, successfully.. But, nevertheless,  he should be at least as good as LL. , 99 Tobias Sing "pianovirus",   ( Epanalepsen-Dieb!   ) 100 A. Riegler (look, styleblossom / style)   I haven't forgotten you!  

Very cordially, 8_octaves!

[chopinlover01]

I don't feel like sorting through the above post, but I'm astonished that, not even that you put mr Bachscholar (I like to call him mr BS), but that you put Yuja Wang under him.

[outin]

Looking at 8_octaves list there must be 100 on mine too, since there are so many very good pianists missing from that list. Although a few I would have left out too.

Of course it could be an age thing...younger people may easily prefer flashy antics over maturity and calmness.

Interestingly I don't care much for LL's "mentor" Barenboim either, I find his Chopin really disappointing...So maybe LL just needs a new teacher 

[danhuyle]

Lang Lang has the ability so few pianists ever possess. He could interpret a piece in any way he desires. His choice of interpretation is rather subjective and he can easily interpret just as well as the greatest pianists if he chooses to.

[outin]

Lang Lang has the ability so few pianists ever possess. He could interpret a piece in any way he desires. His choice of interpretation is rather subjective and he can easily interpret just as well as the greatest pianists if he chooses to.

Interesting...how do you know that?

[stevensk]

Interesting...how do you know that?

-Could be that he has listened to Lang Lang you know 

[outin]

-Could be that he has listened to Lang Lang you know 

I don't see how that would help to assess whether someone has such extraordinarily varied interpretative abilities...

[j_menz]

Don't you people have your own shortcomings to worry about? 

[stoat_king]

It is to avoid thinking about my own numerous and tragic shortcomings that I'm posting on this thread.
Everyone needs a target!

[outin]

Don't you people have your own shortcomings to worry about? 

Why would I worry about them? If I didn't have at least some, I would be unbearable 

[stoat_king]

Outin is quite right.
In addition, I simply haven't got time to spend all day sobbing and rending my clothes over my hideous shortcomings.

This kind of thread, full of angry finger-pointing and extraordinary, baseless accusations is like a soothing balm to me in my fortress of bitterness.

As it happens, I have nothing against Lang Lang whatsoever. I just dont see that as a reason not to pitch in lol

[diomedes]

facetious & mischievous post:

If you haven't seen it yet, type in williams lang lang on yt. The rehearsal clip is pretty amusing too.

 

[outin]

Outin is quite right.

Of course I am. Whatever shortcomings I may have, being wrong is not one of them...

[stevensk]

facetious & mischievous post:

If you haven't seen it yet, type in williams lang lang on yt. The rehearsal clip is pretty amusing too.

 

Lang Lang is absolutely not my "favorite pianist"  but this clip clearly shows one of his "extraordinarily varied abilities..."

[perfect_playing]

Lang Lang is insanely good. I don't like some of his interpretations but he is still amazing. I love the emotion he brings to his performances. Seriously guys, stop bashing him, I bet you can't even play anywhere near to the level of his performances you say are bad.

@rachmaninoff_forever: excellent post

[perfect_playing]

Some of his worse performances (eg the Mozart sonata movement at the Proms a few years back, sorry can't be more precise, the only thing that stuck in my mind was the sheer egregiousness of the rendition) would assuredly result in some very raised professorial eyebrows! I was trying to list current pianists who I would rather hear LL than: so far, excluding cranks and the wilfully obscure, I've got to two.

I've heard that performance of the Mozart and it's amazing, I loved every bit of it. It was a very fresh interpretation of a well known piece, and he brought out so many different characters and moods in his playing. You can dislike it all you want, but I think it's great playing, no doubt about that.

[lostinidlewonder]

It's because he's so popular and famous people hate him, tall poppy syndrome in action. He might not be as good as so and so but so what? he's done a lot of work promoting piano in China and millions of Chinese kids look up to him. It's a good thing imo. He's very good, amongst the most successful concert pianists alive today. Artistically people can debate but there is no debate about his success and that is not something to despise.

[stevensk]

So, I think we can conclude that lang Lang is good 

[perfect_pitch]

So, I think we can conclude that lang Lang is good 

Erm... No.

[themeandvariation]

  from just weeks ago….  (shameless?)

[cstotlar]

I've heard him play beautifully and just dutifully in the same concert (the only live one I've heard).  I would rather listen to him than look at him with all his theatrics on stage, though.  He has a very demanding schedule which I hope he will be able to survive.

Curtis Stotlar