Synaesthesia

[infectedmushroom]

After seeing a program about someone who get`s visual images when he sees numbers, I'm getting more interested in the thing called "synaesthesia".


I read an article about Scriabin, who seemed to have synaesthesia. Seeing colors when hearing specific notes. I find this very interesting and I'm wondering if everyone can experience synaesthesia. Is it something you have to be born with, or can it be taught or experienced in some kinda other way? Do some people on this forum have synaesthesia? If so, please share your experiences with it.


The program I was talking about can be seen here:

https://www.biertijd.com/mediaplayer/?itemid=1959


Very interesting to watch!

[jre58591]

its called synæsthesia, btw.

scriabin's prometheus, the poem of fire, actually calls for an instrument called a luce, which is a "color organ". it produces light rather than sound. too bad its not used (much) anymore.

i personally have never met anyone with this trait.

[jakev2.0]

Studies suggest Scriabin did not really have synaesthesia.

Rimsky-Korsakov, however, DID have synaesthesia.

[infectedmushroom]

Oh, it's "synaesthesia", my bad!

[phil13]

Studies suggest Scriabin did not really have synaesthesia.

Rimsky-Korsakov, however, DID have synaesthesia.

This is apparently how Scriabin described his synaesthesia, in reference to each pitch. Notice a pattern?

From the Wikipedia article on Scriabin:

"Though these works are often considered to be influenced by Scriabin's synesthesia, a condition wherein one experiences sensation in one sense in response to stimulus in another, it is doubted that Alexander Scriabin actually experienced this. His color system, unlike most synesthetic experience, lines up with the circle of fifths: it was a thought-out system based on Sir Isaac Newton's Optics."

Phil

[jre58591]

messiaen also had mild synæsthesia. in some of his scores, particularly coleurs de la cité céleste and des canyons aux étoiles..., he would write the colors of certain passages, in addition to the various birds they signified (particularly in the latter).

[elspeth]

I have it! Well, a variation on the theme, anyway. Not so much with specific notes (although sometimes they do), but chords are always coloured in my head, and a whole piece will have colours and change colour depending both on the notes/chords and on the style of the piece. It's very hard to explain!

There's no particular system to what colour individual chords are, they often change depending on context.

Mozart is usually green or yellow, Chopin is purple, Bach is blue and silver, Beethoven is shades of orange and yellow, like the light in Turner's paintings, Gershwin is various shades of blue...

I find it's easier to learn the stylistic aspects of pieces in colours - the colours change with dynamics, and to a lesser degree with articulation, so it's often easier for me to concentrate on changing the colour of a piece, and the right dynamic or articulation will follow on naturally. It helps me memorise pieces too, a wrong note will make the piece the wrong colour.

It always seems to be a shock to music teachers, my flute and singing teachers both loved teh concept but it took my piano teacher a bit longer to get used to!

[invictious]

I have full synaesthesia, whether I listen to whatever, random colors flash across my eyes, when they are closed of course.

For Mozart, you mean red actually.

[pianistimo]

this is very interesting to me - that for some people the senses can merge like this.  i don't ever recall seeing colors and usually the associations that i make are images.  most often, i feel that i'm literate and telling a story through the music.

but, to have music profoundly work on or affect me - hmmm.  it's purely audible tones that i'm 'analyzing' - context, usually.  it's like a procedure to listen to music.  i know this sounds very clinical - but if i saw colors suddenly - i'd fall over backwards thinking i had some sort of profound 'experience.'

it amazes me that some people can have this all the time.  consider yourselves lucky.  perhaps some people who are born into this situation cannot truly explain to someone else who does not have it - what exactly it is like! 

i will admit to having only 2-3 pieces truly affect me in my entire lifetime that i would 'cry to' - 'have some kind of sudden sky opening, spine tingling, hair raising feeling' or 'feel not in control.'

[phil13]

I have full synaesthesia, whether I listen to whatever, random colors flash across my eyes, when they are closed of course.

For Mozart, you mean red actually.

Let me ask you this:

Is it based on what the note's pitch is, or rather the way that note is used in the music? I remember once thinking that the Appassionata was a deep purple with shades of red, but I am fairly sure I don't have synaesthesia- I never get those colors when I play, and never with other pieces that are similar to the Appassionata.

Also, if it is directly related to the pitch, what happens when 3 or more notes are played at once? Do you see all 3 colors for those specific keys?

Randomly, I also read an article a few months ago noting an unusual form of synaesthesia- a woman who could TASTE the notes. That was truly strange.

Phil

[infectedmushroom]

It's hard for me to imagine seeing colors while hearing music. I surely don't have Synaesthesia, but for some reason I wish I had Synaesthesia. If the colors are "matched" to specific notes, I can conclude that it will work like having perfect pitch. I mean: if you see, for example, the color Blue while hearing a F# everytime, and see a different color while hearing every other note, it wouldn't be that hard for someone who has Synaesthesia to know wich notes are played in a piece.


Synaesthesia fascinates me and I'm wondering if it can be taught to yourself in some way. It wouldn't be the same like someone who has Synaesthesia since (s)he was borned, but maybe you can teach your brain to see colors while hearing specific notes. I'm also amazed by people who have perfect pitch. I don't have perfect pitch, but I taught myself to a state of having absolute pitch. Now I can identify notes by ear much easier.



Edit: here is an interesting video to watch. It's a video based on Scriabin's Synaesthesia. It's probably a video based on information about Synaesthesia, but I want to ask people like "invictious" if this video comes close to what you're seeing in your head as a person with Synaesthesia.

[pianistimo]

actually, after watching that, i'm very glad i don't have it.  i would freak! 

[cziffra]

this happens alot when people are under the influence of LSD, all it really does is jumble your senses

[pies]

Try LSD. From what I've heard, it makes you see smells, hear colors, taste sounds, etc,

[cziffra]

it really is very fun, just don't do it too much because I have seen alot of people who become so spacey

[ada]

Psilocybin is a better alternative.

Disclaimer: People should know that hallucenogenics like LSD and psilocybin, while stimulating the so-called "god centre" of the brain, can trigger serious psychotic episodes in some people.

 

BTW Kandinsky also had synaesthesia

[cziffra]

I've always found shrooms to me more of an introspective trip than a "look at the pretty colors" one.  plus it causes lesions over time.

[arensky]

I "hear" specific colors in keys. I don't actually see them but rather hear or feel them. As tonalities mesh and modulate, so do the colors. How much of this is natural and how much is associative, I'm not sure. I did not invent this (I'm pretty sure Scriabin didn't either, or anyone else who experiences this) but I'm suspicious of how I see C ( bad pun,not intended); white. The same color as the keys that play C. And a minor is clear or opaque. Perhaps we subconciously assign the colors to certain keys based on some experience or setting we associate with that key, when we first or once heard it. Example; a child's music box plays a tune in F major, and their nursery or room is painted yellow, then perhaps they will associate that key with that color. Anyway, my key colors have been established since I was a teenager, and have not changed...

C -  white
cm- grey
Db-  fuscia
c#m- steel
D -    red
dm- maroon
Eb- light blue
ebm- very dark blue, almost black
E- bright blue
em- dark blue (but different than ebm, not as dark)
F- green
fm- dark green
F#- peach (this key area can turn green sometimes)
f#m- light metallic green
G- gold
gm- orange
Ab- pink
g#m- purple
A- yellow
am- opaque, clear
Bb- brown
bbm- dark brown
B- chrome silver
bm- metallic grey


Here's an old thread about this.....  https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=14028.msg150628#msg150628

[arensky]

Try LSD. From what I've heard, it makes you see smells, hear colors, taste sounds, etc,

.... shave your eyelids, jump out of dorm windows thinking you can fly (knew that guy/RIP), cause irreversible psycological damage, be used as a practical joke (knew her too).

This is not stuff to be taken lightly. It was used in the 1950's by psychiatrists to treat schizophrenia, apparently with sucsess. What it does is induce an artificial state of schizophrenia (so the schizophrenics became "normal" under it's influence and could receive therapy). If you're up for that...

Psilocybin is a better alternative.

I'll take Scriabin, thanks. 

[thalberg]

Pianist Helene Grimaud has synaesthesia. 

Anyway, I've read about synaesthesia, and here are its traits:

It is involuntary.
It is always the same--no randomness.  Each note or group always has the same color.
It is extremely vivid.
It aids memory.

From the examples from the book I read, Arensky's testimony is closest to the book. 

I have synaesthesia, too, though.  But keys for me have smells.  C major smells like lysol.  G# minor smells like dog doo.  G major smells like a dumpster.  And Db minor smells like sweat socks.  The other keys smell terrible, too, but I just don't have time to get into it right now.  Needless to say, practicing for me is a nightmare.  In concerts, people think my facial expressions are expressive, but really it's that I can't stand the smell.

[berrt]

I have synaesthesia, too, though.  But keys for me have smells.  C major smells like lysol.  G# minor smells like dog doo.  G major smells like a dumpster.  And Db minor smells like sweat socks.  The other keys smell terrible, too, but I just don't have time to get into it right now.  Needless to say, practicing for me is a nightmare.  In concerts, people think my facial expressions are expressive, but really it's that I can't stand the smell.

What about the other way round? Do you hear sweet music if you come along a freshly dung field?
B.

[ramseytheii]

Try LSD. From what I've heard, it makes you see smells, hear colors, taste sounds, etc,

Actually the true definition of synaesthesia, according to the dictionary, is a sensation produced in one modality when a stimulus is applied to another modality.  In other words it is not limited to seeing color when hearing music, though that is how we most often think of it.

Proust's "In Search of Lost Time" featured this condition in what is known as involuntary memory.  A character for instance would feel the fabric of the drapes and have experiences from the past come back. 

Everyone really has this ability, some more latent then others, but I believe it can be developed by concentrating on senses that are aroused when playing or listening to music, and trying to identify what they identify.  Images you get, memories you have, or even just unidentified sensation are all fodder for a deeper level of association and subjective identification.

I don't "see" colors when I hear music, yet sometimes, I have the inexplicable feeling that a certain passage and a certain color "feel" the same, and they are identified in my mind as one thing.  It isn't just colors though; a certain musty book smell makes me hear certain works of Bach, which I played from an old, moldy book bought at some second-hand shop.  The senses cross, and synthesize, and a new level of characterization is possible.

I think, actually that we should strive to find these for the works that we play.  We should strive to make the music we play as much internal as possible, and to that extent, it requires that we integrate the music - the new sensations - with our enormous, never-ending repertory of stored sensation.  Sometimes this work seems to be done for us, but other times we have to search, to find the personal meaning of a passage or piece.  Neuhaus calls this the "artistic image."

Cortot also required his students to come up not only with theoretical analyses, but also poetic images.  In some of his writings, he describes his own, and they are unforgettable.  For instance in a rolled-chord passage in Franck's Prelude, Chorale & Fugue he describes the rolled chords as "flames alighting the horizon."  And I could truly see it in connection with the music.  That is synesthesia!  Or when Thomas Ades describes his music (Traced Overhead, I think) as "illuminated from within."  Or when Wagner incorporates the smallest detail of movement, down to facial expression, of his characters into the orchestral fabric. 

Perhaps getting to the root of synesthsia, is getting to the very root of music itself.  Music as an empty vessel, ready to be filled with all of our free associations, ready to take on whatever meaning we can confidently ascribe to it, even none at all.

Walter Ramsey