Medtner - Sonata tragica op39no5

[andhow04]

I recorded this like the Scriabin 8th JUST FOR FUN, so its not to be considered a finished product. Esp. since I really mess up in the inferno climax. But I get thru it somehow. Tell me what you think and how ca it be better!
THANKS!

[tompilk]

this is simply stunning. the clarity even in the most dense passages is astounding. well done. I don't care about the wrong notes. It's the overall music that matters.
Thank you!
Tom

[ramseytheii]

Even though yo urecorded it just for fun, I have to say I found it not as satisfying as your others even the Scriabin (which you apparently also did for "fun", and it was that one that made me go listen to your others!)

I think the piano approach should be different in the music of Medtner, not be so Scarlatti-ish, but a bit heavier with arm weight, and a more pronounced cantabile.  But I mean something rather specific, and that is, more extroverted cantabile that is operatic in style, not Lieder in style. 

Also I think the tempo is just too fast.  Your time is about 8 minutes but most people seem to take 10 or 11?  Especially since a lot of the figurations come from the opening page, if they are too fast they are blurred and the motivic reference is lost.

It matches your other offerings for brilliant technique and charismatic excitement.  Don't worry that it is not "finished," because it is so much more exciting than many others finished products.

The Earl Wild recording also doesn't have a finished sheen to it, if I remember correctly.  I've never heard the Hamelin of this sonata.

Walter Ramsey

[andhow04]

Even though yo urecorded it just for fun, I have to say I found it not as satisfying as your others even the Scriabin (which you apparently also did for "fun", and it was that one that made me go listen to your others!)

I think the piano approach should be different in the music of Medtner, not be so Scarlatti-ish, but a bit heavier with arm weight, and a more pronounced cantabile.  But I mean something rather specific, and that is, more extroverted cantabile that is operatic in style, not Lieder in style. 

Also I think the tempo is just too fast.  Your time is about 8 minutes but most people seem to take 10 or 11?  Especially since a lot of the figurations come from the opening page, if they are too fast they are blurred and the motivic reference is lost.

It matches your other offerings for brilliant technique and charismatic excitement.  Don't worry that it is not "finished," because it is so much more exciting than many others finished products.

The Earl Wild recording also doesn't have a finished sheen to it, if I remember correctly.  I've never heard the Hamelin of this sonata.

Walter Ramsey

hmm.. i'll take those into consideration.  Maybe its too dry sometimes?  It's my first medtner.  i play also the canzona matinata but I didn't record it.   you're definitely right about the blurred passages because those have to be clear, and they come from the beginning.  In a way this sonat ais like the scriabin 8, because both introduce so many themes int he firs tpages then just bring them back over and over again.  but in a totally different way!  so its good to pair up these two
thank again

[quantum]

Your performance is quite impressive, and you certainly do have a good technical command of the keyboard. 

Medtner thought of himself as a pupil of Beethoven in spirit, and that is evident in how he develops his thematic material.  What I find intriguing is that there is very little fluff in his works, every motif has meaning both thematic and accompaniment - especially in this sonata.  Yet the music still manages to be very pianistic and romantic in nature. 

There are many dimensions of line in this piece, a lot of the time multiple instances of line are superimposed on each other.  I think you need to bring out this contrapuntal facet of the music much more.  Rather than thinking of vertical exactness, you would do good to search out the beginnings, climaxes and endings of line in this piece. 

This pieces also has a wide diversity of character, like instruments of an orchestra.  I'd like to hear more of a pronounced contrast in character.  You have much more room to be poetic in the slow sections, while you can do more to additionally emphasize the percussive effects of the opeining theme and it's transformations. Also further tuning yourself in to the dialog between thematic elements would help you fine tune your pedalling to emphasize certain elemenets, so that they can more clearly emerge from the mass of notes one needs to play.

I'd also like to hear more varying nuance in your quiet sections.  Make full use of the una corda and fractional una corda pedaling.

It's great to hear some Medtner on here!

[andhow04]

Thanks so much for your perceptive comments!  I find the same reasons for lovoing medtner music: everything has an origin, whether principal material or subsidiary, so many layers, and yet so fun to play.  even medtner said it alkways has to be physically pleasurable to play.

Your performance is quite impressive, and you certainly do have a good technical command of the keyboard. 

Medtner thought of himself as a pupil of Beethoven in spirit, and that is evident in how he develops his thematic material.  What I find intriguing is that there is very little fluff in his works, every motif has meaning both thematic and accompaniment - especially in this sonata.  Yet the music still manages to be very pianistic and romantic in nature. 

There are many dimensions of line in this piece, a lot of the time multiple instances of line are superimposed on each other.  I think you need to bring out this contrapuntal facet of the music much more.  Rather than thinking of vertical exactness, you would do good to search out the beginnings, climaxes and endings of line in this piece. 

i wonder if you could lead me in this dirrection by pointing to a particular part, not just of counterpoint in the music but wher ei could do this to emphasize it clearer

This pieces also has a wide diversity of character, like instruments of an orchestra.  I'd like to hear more of a pronounced contrast in character.  You have much more room to be poetic in the slow sections, while you can do more to additionally emphasize the percussive effects of the opeining theme and it's transformations. Also further tuning yourself in to the dialog between thematic elements would help you fine tune your pedalling to emphasize certain elemenets, so that they can more clearly emerge from the mass of notes one needs to play.

I confess to being a bit uncertain about an element of this piece and that is tempo.  everywhere where there are changes, and one would expect a change of tempo it is written (a tempo) in parenthesis.  i know this can't possibly mean the pulse is exactly the same all the way thru until the coda, but those little parenthesis are making it difficult for me to commit to a change in tempo, and i think that is stifling the character.  what do you think about this?  are thoes markings for real?  or should they be "interpreted" somehow

I'd also like to hear more varying nuance in your quiet sections.  Make full use of the una corda and fractional una corda pedaling.

It's great to hear some Medtner on here!

thanks veyr much and i look forward to your respones!

[andhow04]

quantum i just realized it was you that gave comments for my scriabin sonata as well!  have you made a study of russian music?  You give great informatioN!

[imbetter]

I think your melodies need to flow more and your slower sections are a little tame but other than that it was good