BARENBOIM ON BEETHOVEN

[netzow]

Don't think this has been posted yet but I thought this would be worth checking out to see if it's on where you are. https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/shows/barenboim/index.html He is going to go through all 32 Beethoven sonata's in the next few days.

[jre58591]

what a travesty.

[Bob]

He's going through all 32?  On tv?  That wasn't the program.


Here are the pieces (listed on pg 4 of the link above)

Sonata No. 5 in C minor," Op. 10, No. 1

1. Allegro molto e con brio

2. Adagio molto

3. Finale -- Prestissimo


"Sonata No. 11 in B-flat major," Op. 22

1. Allegro con brio

2. Adagio con molta espressione

3. Minuetto

4. Rondo -- Allegretto


"Sonata No. 19 in G minor," Op. 49, No. 1

1. Andante

2. Rondo -- Allegro


"Sonata No. 20 in G major," Op. 49, No. 2
 

1. Allegro ma non troppo

2. Tempo di minuetto


"Sonata 23 in F minor," Op. 57 ("Appassionata")

1. Allegro assai

2. Andante con moto

3. Allegro ma non troppo




It was good.  TV stinks for sound quality though, but you can get a good idea of the tone. 

I see it will be replayed too for those who missed it. 

I was kind of annoyed with the camera.  It keeps moving and switching angles.  And they only have so many angle -- After awhile I noticed the same camera positions... over and over and over.

On the plus side, I can take a break and actually move when I want to.  That's just not possible during a live performance.  I suppose the DVD might be better that way, or maybe I just want short, one-piece recitals.  Someday on the internet maybe... live ones I mean.

It was cool to see the masterclass at the end.  I wasn't quite paying attention and was surprised when the performer suddenly changed. :p  And I don't believe I've actually seen the famous Lang Lang before.  I was very interesting to hear those students vs. Barenboim for interpretation, to hear what was missing in the student performances.




The teacher guide is amusing.

Wow....  It's listed as grades 5-8.  Here are some of the questions on the viewer guide...

"Beethoven remains constantly contemporary." Agree or disagree? Why?

"His music really deals with the completeness and the innermost nature of the human condition." Agree or disagree? Why?

"It [the music] is about the necessity to push yourself to the limit. It does not shy away from the extremes." Agree or disagree? Why?

"Out of chaos, out of strife, come a new order." Agree or disagree? Why?



I suppose it could be done with some junior high kids, but probably none of those that I have ever taught.  Looks more like a music appreciation COLLEGE class, even a music history class for full music majors, the "lite"-er classes.



Holy cow...

Time Allotment:
Approximately five to six 45-minute class periods

For grades 5-8.

Man... That would never fly.  Let's see... meeting twice weekly for 30 minutes each... 60 minutes/week.... They want at least 3:45hr...  That would be about a month's worth of classes... for general music.... a month worth of discussion, worksheets, and watching a video of Beethoven.... yeah....  I doubt the kids would go for that, and I can't justify an entire month on one topic, and the kids wouldn't really be performing music themselves.... ouch...  But say.. an older student?  8th grade.  Even still, a month is a huge time commitment.  That would be more like a "Beethoven" unit.  With the push for standards testing... junior high classes don't have as much time.  Could take more than a month...  And then you have to factor in the 8th grade kid "pack" mentality, the average group of 8th graders.  That would take a huge amount of selling.  I don't see that happening.

Lisa Prososki.... poor Lisa.  She prepared the teacher materials.  It's just not there.  I think a high school or college level student could handle this, but not grades 5-8.  Fur Elise is their level.  One class.  (shakes head)


Understanding and Interpreting Timeless Classics from
Barenboim on Beethoven
--->>>>> Grades 5-8 <<<<-----

Students will learn about Beethoven and Barenboim; examine Barenboim's views of Beethoven's works; analyze a piano sonata and use the analysis to create a fictional story; and discuss the characteristics that help a piece of music stand the test of time.


I suppose.... somehow....  Not with my students though, not that much depth... geez....



A section on Gardener's MI theory...

These look more like units.  Hmm....

I wonder who is actually using these lesson plans.  It's their video, links, and some info.  The questions are beyond the level of the students, at least grade 5-8, and then they tell the teacher to remember to print out a list of the terms used and be sure to bookmark the kids' computers with their websites. 

It doesn't look like the person who made those lessons is in tune with the schools.



I just can't imagine a fifth grader tackling these questions.

"Beethoven remains constantly contemporary." Agree or disagree? Why?
"His music really deals with the completeness and the innermost nature of the human condition." Agree or disagree? Why?
"It [the music] is about the necessity to push yourself to the limit. It does not shy away from the extremes." Agree or disagree? Why?
"Out of chaos, out of strife, come a new order." Agree or disagree? Why?


Some of them won't even be able to read through the sentence.  oi...  "Teacher, what's 'chos'?"

A student could give some type of simple answer, but you could really take any one of those questions, stick "cite specific examples and thorough," and you've got a doctorale level questions there.



"No, no, child.  We're focusing on the strife, urning, and transcendence in Beethoven here, not that rock on the floor."   

"Stop eating the paste!" 

"Who took my stapler?"

(and really, the principal would be much happier to have them just color pictures of Beethoven...)




Student replies on worksheet (those that actually get turned in):

"Beethoven remains constantly contemporary." Agree or disagree? Why?
Agree.  Because.  Beethoven looks old on tv.  [I can just about guarantee one of the kids will think that's Beethoven playing the video.]

"His music really deals with the completeness and the innermost nature of the human condition." Agree or disagree? Why?
Agree.  Teacher said so.

"It [the music] is about the necessity to push yourself to the limit. It does not shy away from the extremes." Agree or disagree? Why?
Agree.  Lot of sounds.

"Out of chaos, out of strife, come a new order." Agree or disagree? Why?
Agree.  Because it is loud.


And that might be a pretty response from the typical 5th grader.  And then I would have to grade that in all my extra free time.  (looks like another A to me...)

[amanfang]

(and really, the principal would be much happier to have them just color pictures of Beethoven...)

Bob, you make me laugh.  Actually, when I was in 8th grade taking music appreciation for 45 minutes once a week, the book we used had black and white pencil drawings of all the composers.  There were probably a good 4 or 5 composers for each chapter, except way more in the Romantic unit.  Anyway, I was not much interested in music appreciation at the time, so I always took out my highlighters and made clowns out of those pictures.  As I recall, Bach's face ended up being bright yellow with neon blue hair and a bright pink suit.... Needless to say, my teacher was not very impressed when he was walking around one day surveying our reading.  Oh well.  Despite my antics back then, here I am today.....

[counterpoint]

"His music really deals with the completeness and the innermost nature of the human condition." Agree or disagree? Why?

innermost nature of the human condition   ?

dumbness, arrogance, hatred, brutality ?  

[Bob]

I got my reminder email from PBS.  They are reminding me not to miss the program that was on a few hours ago.  Nice. 

Fortunately, I didn't need their help and remembered all by myself.

[ramseytheii]

This from one of my favorite blogs, www.soundsandfury.com:

Master Class

I watched last night's installment of the PBS Great Performances series which opened with Daniel Barenboim performing five Beethoven sonatas, and closed with a 2005 Barenboim-led Beethoven master class wherein he showed the four participants (i.e., they performed, and Barenboim stopped them and interjected his remarks, criticisms, and demonstrations when necessary) — gifted young concert pianists Lang Lang, Jonathan Biss, Shai Wosner, and David Kadouch — just how it's done. Or, rather, how it ought to be done.

Barenboim and I are of the same generation, and watching that master class felt a bit like old home week to me. I don't know how master classes are carried on today in general, but Barenboim followed the method that prevailed when I attended school, and witnessing that master class had me feeling all warm and fuzzy right from the get-go (snicker at that last at your peril).

One of the participants, the twenty-year-old Frenchman, David Kadouch, began playing a movement from one of the sonatas, and played forte a measure or two that apparently was marked piano in the score. Barenboim stopped him instantly. Why was he playing forte when the score called for piano, Barenboim asked. "Because," replied Kadouch, barely controlled defiance in his voice, "I like it that way."

For an instant, I misbelieved my ears. No participant in a master class in my time, not even the bravest or most gifted — or the most reckless — would have dared offer such a justification for disregarding so clear a notation in a Beethoven score. Not to a master of Barenboim's stature, at any rate.

In an interval of less than a split second, a dozen witheringly savage responses to that imbecile justification and Kadouch's unmitigated chutzpah flashed through my mind.

I held my breath.

Barenboim didn't miss a beat. "Not good enough," he shot back with equanimity, sounding more bemused than annoyed or angered. "Had you said because there's a diminished ninth that needs to be heard at that point, I would have thought you wrong and told you so, but at least your reason would have had some real thought behind it. Now, let's see what happens when you play it as Beethoven wrote it, and let's examine it from there."*

The right response, and the right way to handle the thing, of course. Savaging Kadouch for his imbecile remark and for his unmitigated chutzpah would have accomplished nothing except perhaps to increase his defiance, and he would have learned nothing of value except that in a master class the master is the master, and against the master one cannot win in the short term.

Needless to say, after about another two minutes of Barenboim nudging his thinking, Kadouch saw his error, and it's a pretty sure bet he'd never again play that measure forte in disregard of the score's notation of piano. And it's almost, but not quite, a pretty sure bet he'd never again treat in so cavalier a fashion any notation of Beethoven's.

Master class indeed.

--------

Bravo Barenboim!

Walter Ramsey

[mikey6]

This masterclass was uploaded a while ago.  It's really beneficial to watch (even though da dongah had most of the same problems I had).  It also points out how much better a pianist is then the others

[arensky]

"Sonata No. 11 in B-flat major," Op. 22

1. Allegro con brio

2. Adagio con molta espressione

3. Minuetto

4. Rondo -- Allegretto


"Sonata No. 19 in G minor," Op. 49, No. 1

1. Andante

2. Rondo -- Allegro


"Sonata No. 20 in G major," Op. 49, No. 2
 

1. Allegro ma non troppo

2. Tempo di minuetto


"Sonata 23 in F minor," Op. 57 ("Appassionata")

1. Allegro assai

2. Andante con moto

3. Allegro ma non troppo

I caught this much of the TV recital last night. It was very involved and emotional playing for the most part although in some movements ( Op.22 mvt's 1 and 3, Appasionata mvts 2 and 3) he seemed reserved or disconnected. There was some sloppy passagework in Op.22 mvt. 1 and strangely in Op.49 #2  , perhaps he didn't practice that so much; still it was great to hear the Op.49 Sonatas played well for a change. High points for me were Op.22 slow movement and last movement (don't like the other movements anyway), Op. 49 #1 and the first mvt. of the Appasionata. I know Barenboim has his detractors, but I've usually enjoyed his playing. The high points of this concert for me were extraordinary music making.

[ramseytheii]

I caught this much of the TV recital last night. It was very involved and emotional playing for the most part although in some movements ( Op.22 mvt's 1 and 3, Appasionata mvts 2 and 3) he seemed reserved or disconnected. There was some sloppy passagework in Op.22 mvt. 1 and strangely in Op.49 #2  , perhaps he didn't practice that so much; still it was great to hear the Op.49 Sonatas played well for a change. High points for me were Op.22 slow movement and last movement (don't like the other movements anyway), Op. 49 #1 and the first mvt. of the Appasionata. I know Barenboim has his detractors, but I've usually enjoyed his playing. The high points of this concert for me were extraordinary music making.

I used to be a Barenboim detractor (Baren-boing-boing-boing I used to say) but I think I learned more partly from watching his masterclasses.  I was able to see the Beethoven-Carnegie Hall classes live, and they were ear-opening, and I thought the class with Lang Lang, which you can watch on You Tube, is very educational.  Too often genuine constructive criticism of people who are already stars is dismissed off-hand, but when it comes from a source like Barenboim, it changes your whole perspective.

I also saw a live performance of some of the sonatas at Carnegie when he did the whole cycle a few years ago.  I experienced the same thing you did, some were fantastically sloppy, and others were just terrific.  In this case, it was op.31 no.1 in G major that was a mess, while op.110 I can still hear to this day.   I think if one criticism of Barenboim holds is that he values quantity over quality.  But whatever, he's obviously a huge asset to the musical world, with his public teaching, his Middle Eastern orchestra, his venture into politics through music, not around it, his interest in the younger generations, his conducting, my goodness look at all the things he does...

Walter Ramsey

[arensky]

I used to be a Barenboim detractor (Baren-boing-boing-boing I used to say) but I think I learned more partly from watching his masterclasses.  I was able to see the Beethoven-Carnegie Hall classes live, and they were ear-opening, and I thought the class with Lang Lang, which you can watch on You Tube, is very educational.  Too often genuine constructive criticism of people who are already stars is dismissed off-hand, but when it comes from a source like Barenboim, it changes your whole perspective.

The snippets of the masterclass after the TV concert were good, as far as they went. Particularly I liked the " what if he has a fight with his girlfriend/has to buy groceries/and then has to play a concert?" bit about comittment and focus. I will watch the whole thing on Youtube.

[quoteI also saw a live performance of some of the sonatas at Carnegie when he did the whole cycle a few years ago.  I experienced the same thing you did, some were fantastically sloppy, and others were just terrific.  In this case, it was op.31 no.1 in G major that was a mess, while op.110 I can still hear to this day.   I think if one criticism of Barenboim holds is that he values quantity over quality.  But whatever, he's obviously a huge asset to the musical world, with his public teaching, his Middle Eastern orchestra, his venture into politics through music, not around it, his interest in the younger generations, his conducting, my goodness look at all the things he does...

Walter Ramsey

He is not unlike Cortot; he probably doesn't have a lot of time to practice but can wing it for the most part. Yes, he does do everything. Since his playing is usually very good, I have no problem allowing him the occasional screw up.