Developing the 4th and 5th fingers

[danny elfboy]

My muscles on the pinky side of the hand and the one surrounding my thumb are far more developed than any normal person I have the occasion to compare with, and definately more developed than me before playing piano. The strength isn't in the fingers, but in the hand muscles that make them move.

I mentioned those muscles but they don't do much regarding the kind of control I was talking about. The muscles you're talking about are implied in the movements of the thumb and the lateral stretching or spreading of the fingers. Now these musclesm are small enough to be stimulated by piano playing, althought their hypertrophy is very very limited
All the most important motions (lifting, bending, straightening, extending flexing) depends on forearm muscles some of which are closed to the wrist and someone of which are very distant from the wrist. Usually on a normal person who also write, pick up objects, grasp obejcts and so on these muscles are already developed enough and big enough so that piano playing doesn't result in any concrete hypertrophy.

Besides no motion described would somehow increase the strength of the fingers
Since the muscles are not in the fingers but either in the first phalanges or in the forearm all they do is controlling movements.

Everyone can play 3-4 notes in the fastest speed possible.
That is, we already posses all the muscle control and development to play fast and with control. What we lack is "maintaining" this control as we play way more than 4 notes and the playing goes on and on. Which is the reason why for many students the beginning of the piece is the EASIEST (even if it is technically harder) as the piece progresses playing become harder even if the piece becomes technically less demanding

[virtuosic1]

Poof

[dnephi]

Yeah. And what did you find to be "nightmarish" about this? The fact that your extremely limited knowledge didn't allow you to get you very far in trying to "one-up" me?

I'm not like anybody else, son. Everything I post about playing piano can be taken as gospel. I'm the real McCoy, and you know it, and therin lies the problem of your frustrated consternation and inabilty to elaborate on your negative comments directed towards me.

That's not the problem-the problem is that you seem like a complete phony.  Your recordings sound like they were made on a sped-up honky tonk.  Can you provide anything more concrete?  Honestly.  If you want to opinion of more esteemed pianists, I suggest dropping by here.  Let me know how many posts you get before you get banned.

Regards,

Dan

[thierry13]

The fastest playing is possible by playing at the surface of the key, eliminating any exaggerated motions.

Wich gives you a crappy sound. Yay.

[danny elfboy]

Wich gives you a crappy sound. Yay.

No he is right
It's just hard to explain in word
One common mistake of many students and pianist is using too much force or pushing too much not realizing that there's nothing to push further since the keybad is a natural limit

If the key were elastic and they would with more force overcome the keybed and go even further down excessive force would make sense. But given the the amount of weight necessary to depress a key (1.6 oz) you can really achieve a full sound without using extreme force in pushing the key down as if they could overcome their structural limit somehow

Indeeed economy of playing is one of the most important aspects while exaggerated and uneconomical motions are ones of the most common problems

[danny elfboy]

If you want to opinion of more esteemed pianists, I suggest dropping by here. 

More esteemed pianists?
How can that place have any credibility ... just read at the naive descriptions
I would be proud of being banned from such forums
Sounds like as if opus10no2 created it

[virtuosic1]

Wich gives you a crappy sound. Yay.

Congratulations! Your post has absolutely nothing to do with reality. If your intention was to sound like a dunce, you succeeded beautifully. You should really think before you post when commenting on text provided by someone who knows what they're talking about.

[virtuosic1]

More esteemed pianists?
How can that place have any credibility ... just read at the naive descriptions
I would be proud of being banned from such forums
Sounds like as if opus10no2 created it

I just looked in. What banter are they speaking over there? I saw one thread that was comprised of all 1 word posts or smileys. What is it? All kids?

[danny elfboy]

I just looked in. What banter are they speaking over there? I saw one thread that was comprised of all 1 word posts or smileys. What is it? All kids?

Don't insult 
Kids are more mature than that
If you look at the idiots in forums they are almost never kids

[virtuosic1]

That's not the problem-the problem is that you seem like a complete phony.  Your recordings sound like they were made on a sped-up honky tonk.  Can you provide anything more concrete?  Honestly.  If you want to opinion of more esteemed pianists, I suggest dropping by here.  Let me know how many posts you get before you get banned.

Regards,

Dan

More concrete? Sure I can. Send me your address and I'll send you an autographed cinder block. You can use it as a spare head. I'm quite certain that replacing your current head with it will increase your cranial capacity based on your erroneous conclusions about me, which of course you're entitled to, but in reality serve as a convenient way to explain away to yourself the things you hear in my playing that you'd like to be able to do yourself, but never will.

Honky Tonk piano? It's a Yamaha C3 and the recordings are extremely clear. That was the goal. To illustrate the clear, clean articulation at a high rate of speed. Or can't you figure that one out all on your own?

[virtuosic1]

Don't insult 
Kids are more mature than that
If you look at the idiots in forums they are almost never kids

Semms like they talk a whole lot about "b***h slappin" and Liszt over there. Fitting. Liszt would b***h-slap the lot of them, with his "black hand" side.   

[danny elfboy]

Semms like they talk a whole lot about "b***h slappin" and Liszt over there. Fitting. Liszt would b***h-slap the lot of them, with his "black hand" side.   

Yeah 
And look at the age of the people who talk about "pregnant dog slapping" and suffer of Z's retention 

[virtuosic1]

Poof

[danny elfboy]

......and the fingers "walking" the hand along the keyboard laterally, instead of the hand taking the fingers to the next location. Like a typewriter carriage carrying the strikers across the paper.

The most efficient way to move in the next location is effortless lifting impulse of the hand
What many people seem to forget is that the piano is a percussive instrument and should be played accordingly: percussively. That's it the wrist is loose, the forearms work like levers and the most effecient and economical way to produce a sound is neither pushing down or pulling down but falling over.

[Mozartian]

Yeah. And what did you find to be "nightmarish" about this? The fact that your extremely limited knowledge didn't allow you to get you very far in trying to "one-up" me?

I'm not like anybody else, son. Everything I post about playing piano can be taken as gospel. I'm the real McCoy, and you know it, and therin lies the problem of your frustrated consternation and inabilty to elaborate on your negative comments directed towards me.

All hail the great piano prophet, the REAL McCOY! (not the fake one).

[jre58591]

Sounds like as if opus10no2 created it

wow, you really hit the nail on the head.

[danny elfboy]

wow, you really hit the nail on the head.

So ... know I don't understad
If he and his ilk have a place on their own where to post their retarded beliefs on technique, musicality, composers, speed and so on ... why in the world they must come here too and torture us?

Sounds like trespassing to me, I feel now justified to use violence to keep the da comme ilk in its own "prison". For the records I have nothing against the humour of the forum.
I'm as liberal as it gets, anti censorship and I hate bigotry or accademical austerity and I don't believe there are evidences that porn is bad for anyone and every healthy person has seen porn as a child. I love unencyclopedia and all the nonsense there.

It's just that people like opus10no2, chromatickler and the like are half-enjoyable people as long as they're banned from ever touching a piano or claim something about piano playing and music in general

But dnephi suggesting virtuosic1 to get the opinion of Da SCD forum must be a joke ... right?

[virtuosic1]

All hail the great piano prophet, the REAL McCOY! (not the fake one).

THIS, from someone with a weak heart and the pulse rate of a nervous rabbit! Weak heart = weak body and mind, but you already know that. Your hands must look like claws when you try to play rapid passages. Ultimately, it's all about ejection fraction, or the lack of it. You should save your energy for breathing instead of pontificating.

Sidebar: Is this the type of forum you people want? You have two people here that know what they're talking about on this thread. You should be learning from this. You should be at the piano while reading these posts by elf and myself, not quibbling like young school girls. This is some atmosphere here on this forum. If this is indicative of the type of mindset in classical training, no wonder almost no advancements have been made in the past 30 years. Everybody knows everything, until they attempt to post. Then it becomes quite apparent that the opposite is true. You should be thankful that Elf and I are having this discussion and learn from it, trying some of the principles we speak of and then seeing an improvement, instead of being class clowns with no class.

[virtuosic1]

All hail the great piano prophet, the REAL McCOY! (not the fake one).

Do you have any idea what really matters in this thread? Do you care? It's all about helping fnork with a question, and aiding Dan Patschan in his quest to greater velocity in the op 10, #1. Now, in my opinion, with the advice I've given him, the path I've started him on, combined with ElfBoy's helpful and equally astute observations, I think that Dan is going to be able to experience a vast improvement in his execution of the peice he sought assistance on, even though we got sidetracked with the usual obligatory, accusatory BS.

Why don't we reserve judgement on what kind of Prophet I am, real or false, until we see if the MAIN GOAL OF THIS THREAD, becomes realized, that is, a marked improvement in Dan and fnork's technical execution on a piece that involves the 4-5 fingers.

Logically, THAT should be the deciding factor in determining just what type of Prophet I am, don't you agree?

[jakev2.0]

Your hands must look like claws when you try to play rapid passages.

And yours must look rather relaxed...not very taxing to play a computerized file, is it?

Sidebar: Is this the type of forum you people want? You have two people here that know what they're talking about on this thread. You should be learning from this. You should be at the piano while reading these posts by elf and myself, not quibbling like young school girls. This is some atmosphere here on this forum.

On the contrary. It speaks to the quality of this forum that so many members possess the ear to be able to tell that the files you posted as your own playing were fabrications.  I would be worried if we weren't fooled by that rubbish.

If this is indicative of the type of mindset in classical training, no wonder almost no advancements have been made in the past 30 years.

Yeah, but why would it be "indicative of the type of mindest in classical training"? What are you even talking about?

[virtuosic1]

And yours must look rather relaxed...not very taxing to play a computerized file, is it?

On the contrary. It speaks to the quality of this forum that so many members possess the ear to be able to tell that the files you posted as your own playing were fabrications.  I would be worried if we weren't fooled by that rubbish.

Yeah, but why would it be "indicative of the type of mindest in classical training"? What are you even talking about?

Like I said, why don't we see what type of progress Dan Patschan is able to experience using my suggestions? You're that impatient as well as being my personal troll, boy?

[jakev2.0]

I never doubted that liars / frauds are able to produce some useful advice, did I?

[virtuosic1]

And yours must look rather relaxed...not very taxing to play a computerized file, is it?

On the contrary. It speaks to the quality of this forum that so many members possess the ear to be able to tell that the files you posted as your own playing were fabrications.  I would be worried if we weren't fooled by that rubbish.

Yeah, but why would it be "indicative of the type of mindest in classical training"? What are you even talking about?

Like I said before you ran from the Chat room, you and I, in a room, with a piano. Any piano, any room. You sit down and play and I will duplicate anything you play, bar by bar, in whatever key you pick, only faster. You maintain that I posted computerized files, yet, as I suggested in the chat room, you refuse to email Michael Habermann, a well known concert pianist and scholar, about my technical abilities.

[jakev2.0]

Like I said before you ran from the Chat room, you and I, in a room, with a piano. Any piano, any room. You sit down and play and I will duplicate anything you play, bar by bar, in whatever key you pick, only faster.

Ok. You 'n me. Flagpole. 3pm. If the principal finds out about this, expect retaliation in the form of extra-hard, undie-tearing wedgie.

[m]

Gentlemen,

Could you cut it off, please. It would be very unfortunate if this otherwise excellent thread would be deleted.

Thanks.

[danny elfboy]

Let's continue the debate on the chat   

[jakev2.0]

Indeed, this is getting out of hand. If you wish to continue via private messaging I'm ready, "virtuoso1". 

[virtuosic1]

Indeed, this is getting out of hand. If you wish to continue via private messaging I'm ready, "virtuoso1". 

Wait a minute. You're MY troll. I didn't say anything about schoolyards. In the chatroom, I invited you to a showdown at a piano keyboard. Unless you think I'd hide a computer in your piano. You'd rather decline and continue making slanderous accusations then back up all your smack, right? Back up your BS. No matter what I post, you'll say it's tricked with. My solution is to meet up in person. You declined and you keep declining. Are you so afraid to be proved wrong with your own eyes and ears?

Now, that said, for the sake of fnork and dan patschan, whom I sought to assist with this thread before trolls involved themselves, I'll go to private messages only with Jake. Try to help somebody and the thread turns into a combat zone. How bizarre.

[cloches_de_geneve]

This thread is 20% excellent advice vs. 80% crap. I wish it could have been the reverse.

[nicco]

You should save your energy for breathing instead of pontificating.

And you should save your energy by stopping to write all that crap about how good you are, and how anyone else doesent have a clue what you are talking about. Instead, make a geniune recording of yourself playing a piece on the piano, this empty talk and threats you bring on sure dont scare anyone. And about this "Any speed-any key" crap, who cares? Surely you must have learned something else then backwards czerny etudes and chromatic scales?

[virtuosic1]

And you should save your energy by stopping to write all that crap about how good you are, and how anyone else doesent have a clue what you are talking about. Instead, make a geniune recording of yourself playing a piece on the piano, this empty talk and threats you bring on sure dont scare anyone. And about this "Any speed-any key" crap, who cares? Surely you must have learned something else then backwards czerny etudes and chromatic scales?

I wasn't trying to impress anybody. This thread was about assisting fnork and Dan patschan. Nothing more. The trouble started when I posted ACOUSTIC PIANO sound files. Just the act my doing that simple thing, without commenting on whether their content was good or bad, was enough to start some off on a tangent about computers.

I'm typing this on a Gateway G6-450. A Pentium 2, 1997 computer with Windows 98. The only PC I own. My PC wouldn't support a piano program, writing program, or any type of program that can be used to generate music and alter it. I know this because several years ago I was in Sam Ash and saw a writing system that I believe was called "Sibelius". With this program, you could write music onscreen with the cursor, and print it out which would have been a great convenience to me for my students. The salesman asked me what I had (PC), and when I told him he said that I would have to upgrade the PC before Idecided to add ANY decent music programs. All I've posted thusfar are analog sounds, played on a Yamaha C3 acoustic grand, stereo miked to a recorder and then transferred for me to a wave file recorder to upload.

Let's try this. Since all of my piano playing is done on a "computer", this was something I did 20+ years ago that I had on cassette, ergo not the cleanest of sound. I just ran across an improvisation that I had done about 20 years ago. It's based on "Teen Town" by Weather Report. It combines a programmable rhythm unit playing while I'm switching between 3 different bass synth settings on a Yamaha synth keyboard all played in real time. At the time, I was emulating a Jaco Patorius / Jamaladeen Tacuma hybrid sound, sometimes at a rate of speed far in excess of what a bass player would be capable of, just for fun. The stretches here are all played right hand only, the left hand being used to switch between voices at the proper times for desired effects, and to use the modulation wheel to bend pitch and modulate vibrato in the style being emulated. In some of the phrases, the notes go by far more rapidly than that 8.5 second, 175 note chromatic run I posted (especially at 2:00 to 2:20 of the recording):

https://h1.ripway.com/virtuosic1/R1_0021.MP3

Of course, Jake will say it's sped up, even though there was a rhythm unit playing a metronomic beat the whole time I was shredding. Like all my other recordings I've posted, he'll say "it's a fake", "too perfect", "no rubato", etc., etc., so this really is a moot point about my posting "something I'm really playing", isn't it? I have boxes full of casettes with my playing on them. The problem is that you can't plug a cassette player into the internet to upload files. A few recordings, like the one above, one of my students has converted to an MP3 file and uploaded it for me, like the other material I shared here that I recorded at his home for a specific purpose, that is, to demonstrate technique.

Personally, I'm well beyond caring about who thinks what. I have nothing to prove to anybody. I know what I can do, what I can play, and the level of my expertise. My students are aware of my abilities as well. That's more than good enough for me. Like I said, I came here to join a community, and share in one, not constantly fight with one. At this point, let the community be damned. There's no enjoyment here. Just combat, accusations, and slander. Enough already.

[steinwaymodeld]

nice tech!
And I gotta say, great repotire range from hattoizing a scale to constant rapid nagging of ur relationship with Habermann.

Good job indeed 

[virtuosic1]

nice tech!
And I gotta say, great repotire range from hattoizing a scale to constant rapid nagging of ur relationship with Habermann.

Good job indeed 

What are the odds now? About 15 against one? Quite a mob mentality here.

I haven't seen Habermann in 25 + years. Communicated once by email with him about 2 years ago. He immediately knew who I was and said he would never forget my technical capabilities. Jake was looking for proof. I figure that the only proof he would accept was from a world class, well-known, professional concert pianist with a history of performing difficult pieces.

You've heard my repertoire? When? You heard a few sound files. That's all you've heard. 99% of my improvisations and compositions aren't copywritten. I should post them all here? 5 large boxes and 2 file cabinets worth of cassettes from the past 40+ years? Yeah. I'll start on that project right away for you, fool. Then, you and the other sisters can stick them right up your flue. How's that work for you?

[virtuosic1]

There. That's MUCH better. Rejoice, sisters. Now, I've removed, edited all of my posts that have anything to do with information about the mechanics of improving technique that seem to have offended everyone. Anything that might have been remotely helpful to anyone. You can all rest easy now. A job well done, girls! You're all safe from my expertise. Experts that you all are, you've saved everyone from any of my "fake" advice.

[dnephi]

You said any piece, in any key?

May I please have Transcendental Etude NO. 99 my his esteemed Sorabji, transposed up 4 half steps?

[Mozartian]

THIS, from someone with a weak heart and the pulse rate of a nervous rabbit! Weak heart = weak body and mind, but you already know that. Your hands must look like claws when you try to play rapid passages. Ultimately, it's all about ejection fraction, or the lack of it. You should save your energy for breathing instead of pontificating.

*starts laughing*

*15 minutes later*

Ahh.. well actually, pretty much all of the great pianists that I know of had tremendous problems with nerves, as well as the majority of pianists I actually know. I just admit that I have a problem. I don't mind you mocking me btw, I actually can laugh at myself, so if you're trying to annoy me it isn't working, lol.

Secondly, my hands don't look like claws, I play more flat fingered than otherwise (although my aim is to maintain a natural arch, and neither flatness nor a tensely curled position), I'm very relaxed in passages.

Thirdly, I wasn't pontificating, I was hailing you, the great prophet of piano forum! HAIL!!!!!! *bows deeply*

*hops off*

[daniel patschan]

Whatever - dear virtuosic1, i tried your advice now and there is a little confusion. If i understood you correctly, i will have to "roll" my hand from the first over to the last note of each 4 note groups ?! But if i do so, where would my wrist reach the highest point, in the middle or at the end of the 4 notes ? Now it feels comfotable to drop the hands into the first note and then to contract it towards the fourth note with the wrist high at this point - is that correct or did i get it completely wrong ? 

Daniel

[gruffalo]

your technical advice wasn't offending people, it was your recordings. your advice was good in many ways, your technique may well be very good or excellent even, but the technique that you showed us was purely digital technology.

[fnork]

What is left is the conclusion that speed, control and accuracy are all extra-physiological aspects of piano playing. The proof of the pudding is that if you take a pianist who lacks control of the 4th and 5th finger, who lack speed and who lacks accuracy and observe his physiology and then observe him again after 6 months when he has gained lot of control of the "weak" fingers, accuracy and speed ... no kind of physiological difference will ever be observed. Unlike a sport athlete which will show physiological differences from a stage to another

In other words, my playing of Chopins op 10 no 2 will never get faster or more accurate? Or Brahms/other excercices? I feel development even since I started this thread last week, although it has mostly to do with ENDURANCE - playing a 2 minute piece with chromatics using 3-4-5 (op 10 no 2) is something that can make you rather tired after a while, but doing it as a warm-up for just a few minutes every day certainly helps building up endurance a lot.

[virtuosic1]

your technical advice wasn't offending people, it was your recordings. your advice was good in many ways, your technique may well be very good or excellent even, but the technique that you showed us was purely digital technology.

So I assume that when I figure out how to post a video on Youtube, I'll also be accused of using digital technology?

[virtuosic1]

Whatever - dear virtuosic1, i tried your advice now and there is a little confusion. If i understood you correctly, i will have to "roll" my hand from the first over to the last note of each 4 note groups ?! But if i do so, where would my wrist reach the highest point, in the middle or at the end of the 4 notes ? Now it feels comfotable to drop the hands into the first note and then to contract it towards the fourth note with the wrist high at this point - is that correct or did i get it completely wrong ? 

Daniel

Sorry, Daniel. Can't comment further on this. Certain forum members will not allow me to assist you in a civil manner, and if I post about anything technical, will keep continuing to turn the thread into a lynch party with more accusations of fakery. I'm sure that with all the consummate, world class experts on every subject under the sun you have hooting and hollering in this thread, they'll have you squared away on this in short order. I'll just listen in.

[nicco]

Sorry, Daniel. Can't comment further on this. Certain forum members will not allow me to assist you in a civil manner, and if I post about anything technical, will keep continuing to turn the thread into a lynch party with more accusations of fakery. I'm sure that with all the consummate, world class experts on every subject under the sun you have hooting and hollering in this thread, they'll have you squared away on this in short order. I'll just listen in.

Are you seriously 50 years old? Cause you're acting like an angry teenager. Get a grip man.

[m]

Whatever - dear virtuosic1, i tried your advice now and there is a little confusion. If i understood you correctly, i will have to "roll" my hand from the first over to the last note of each 4 note groups ?! But if i do so, where would my wrist reach the highest point, in the middle or at the end of the 4 notes ? Now it feels comfotable to drop the hands into the first note and then to contract it towards the fourth note with the wrist high at this point - is that correct or did i get it completely wrong ? 

Daniel

Daniel,

It is hard to say, as I don't know your hands and did not see what are you doing there. I am always for one who follows the most natural and economical ways of piano playing,  so... let's start from the beginning.

Two main and usual mistakes people do in this etude: 1) Too impatient to play too fast right away and 2) Practice/play too loud.

The 2) is the main source of tension and also stands on the way of right musical execution.
By the last I mean, there is a creschendo on the top of the passages and diminuendo when you go down--that's acoustical principals of the instrument and rational/clever use of dynamics.
In other words, you play bass forte, then R.H. very lightly, making a cresch. only on the last 4 notes on the top, and then going down very light. THis way  you will get right musical image, right overall dynamics, and ensure your hands stay free and relaxed, without getting stuck in the keys because of unnecessary pressure.

Practice slowly.
1) Put your fingers on the keys absolutely relaxed. Very important point--you fingers should be always on the keys, as indicator they are relaxed. If something "jumps up" in the air, it means there is tension there. Put your attention there.
2) Very lightly but very actively depress the key, feeling how your finger tip meets the key bed, immediately stopping pressure. It is like a light dart piercing a board and then all the energy gets immediately released. You hand should feel calm and relaxed at all times.

Practice very slowly. DON"T EVEN THINK OF PLAYING FASTER. At this point the main thing is to get used to the new feelings of calmness and touch in your hands and fingers, and patience is of utmost importance.

It is very hard to put on paper (well, on the screen  ), so if something unclear please ask.

Best regards, M  

[dnephi]

More esteemed pianists?
How can that place have any credibility ... just read at the naive descriptions
I would be proud of being banned from such forums
Sounds like as if opus10no2 created it

While  you are correct, he did found it, you will find among our prestigious members Koji Attwood, Jeffrey Lee, and the Canadian.

[virtuosic1]

Are you seriously 50 years old? Cause you're acting like an angry teenager. Get a grip man.

53 to be precise. I've been accused falsely, slandered on this Forum. Get a grip? Grip this, Nicco. I've given references which nobody cares to check, invited naysayers to personal sitdowns behind a keyboard, which are not accepted or ignored mutely, and you suggest getting a grip? My slanderers are acting like obstinate pre-teens. I'm told that my piano recordings are fake, even cassette recordings made with a metronomic rhythm machine and obvious room ambience in the background, supposedly digital productions. Further, people asking a question are told to "ignore my posts" answering questions with sound technical advice. What are you going to do when I post videos, profess that those are altered too?

[fnork]

Marik,
Good points, I would just like to add that Peter Orth in talking about Chopins etudes (in Dean Elders book "Pianists at play") says that one of the ways he usually practices this etude is with A LOT of finger pressure, slowly, forte every note. You have to be very careful when doing this of course, and some even say it is bad to practice it this way. Just wanted to mention it.

[virtuosic1]

While  you are correct, he did found it, you will find among our prestigious members Koji Attwood, Jeffrey Lee, and the Canadian.

And of course, the illustrious you. Self-professed expert on every subject known to man. Who RAN from the Chat room about 3 seconds after the log showed my name! 

[daniel patschan]

Daniel,

It is hard to say, as I don't know your hands and did not see what are you doing there. I am always for one who follows the most natural and economical ways of piano playing,  so... let's start from the beginning.

Two main and usual mistakes people do in this etude: 1) Too impatient to play too fast right away and 2) Practice/play too loud.

The 2) is the main source of tension and also stands on the way of right musical execution.
By the last I mean, there is a creschendo on the top of the passages and diminuendo when you go down--that's acoustical principals of the instrument and rational/clever use of dynamics.
In other words, you play bass forte, then R.H. very lightly, making a cresch. only on the last 4 notes on the top, and then going down very light. THis way  you will get right musical image, right overall dynamics, and ensure your hands stay free and relaxed, without getting stuck in the keys because of unnecessary pressure.

Practice slowly.
1) Put your fingers on the keys absolutely relaxed. Very important point--you fingers should be always on the keys, as indicator they are relaxed. If something "jumps up" in the air, it means there is tension there. Put your attention there.
2) Very lightly but very actively depress the key, feeling how your finger tip meets the key bed, immediately stopping pressure. It is like a light dart piercing a board and then all the energy gets immediately released. You hand should feel calm and relaxed at all times.

Practice very slowly. DON"T EVEN THINK OF PLAYING FASTER. At this point the main thing is to get used to the new feelings of calmness and touch in your hands and fingers, and patience is of utmost importance.

It is very hard to put on paper (well, on the screen  ), so if something unclear please ask.

Best regards, M 

Thank you very much Marik - i´ll of course try your advice, regarding your by far outstanding and proven expertise in this field.  If it´s o.k. i´ll maybe ask you in the future depending on the progress. 

Sorry, Daniel. Can't comment further on this. Certain forum members will not allow me to assist you in a civil manner, and if I post about anything technical, will keep continuing to turn the thread into a lynch party with more accusations of fakery. I'm sure that with all the consummate, world class experts on every subject under the sun you have hooting and hollering in this thread, they'll have you squared away on this in short order. I'll just listen in.

Sad but somehow understandable.

[fnork]

What are you going to do when I post videos, profess that those are altered too?

Virtuosic, may I ask in which way your videos (and previously uploaded recordings) would contribute to this thread? I don't care about how fast you can play. This thread was created to generate ideas about a technical problem in piano playing, and unfortunately, only about 20% of the posts seem to discuss that.

[daniel patschan]

Hello Marik, if you are still around: is the piece really "finger based" - means, it's not a rolling motion (propably a combination) ? Therefore, Cortot's approach to optimize the individual finger stroke is right ? It's so hard to talk about those things by writing about it, even more if English is not the mother language.