Re: THE HANDSHAKE DILEMMA

[schnabels_grandson]

Just tell them you've been sick and it's probably not a good idea to shake your hand, then fake a nasty cough into your hand.  They will be grossed out, but hey, it's your hands they'll be breaking.

I usually don't do it that way, instead, whenever someone does their "super strong tough guy grip" with me, I use my bone-crushing strength to give them a taste of their own medicine.  Needless to say, they don't get agressive with me again.  If your hands aren't really strong, just wince and make your hand go limp in theirs, they'll think they hurt you and be more careful next time.

[chromatickler]

I bet Gyorgy Cziffra never had this problem

[bernhard]

6th Gen Beethoven is right. The best strategy is to make such nice, considerate people suffer. But what if unlike him you do not have a vice grip handshake of your own?

Here are two options.

You will have to practice them until they became natural and smooth. (They are also difficult to follow from the written account so get someone knowledgeable to show it to you. I like to flatter myself that I invented the first one, so you would have to see me, but it is easy to understand option. The second one is a traditional move both in ju-jitsu and aikido, so go tho your nearest martial art school and enroll! )

1. with your hand in the grips of the nicce person, do this:

a) grab your own thumb and make a solid fist around it. b) Use the knuckles of the hand gripping the thumb to put pressure on the back of the hand of the nice friend. c) this is done using a movement like the movement one does when accelerating a motorbike.

There are many nervous pressure points in the back of one's hands. You are basically crushing such pressure points with your knuckles. It requires very little strength, and it immediately makes the other person's hand open besides causing excruciating pain as the nerve centres get pressed. At which point you can grip thier hand and not let them go away. I had some big fellow once on his knees crying and begging me to let him go with this one. Since I am not that big or strong, and this particular guy was not very well liked (he was always crusshing people's hands), this caused untold merriment amongst the crowd in the party where it happened.

2. As he grips your hand, rotate your forearm (it is an easy movement requiring no strength and the other person cannot resist it) so that your hand is now palm down and his hand is palm up. Now, grip his hand so that he cannot escape (if he sees what is coming), and move to the outside of his arm. When the handshake started you were facing each other. Now you are at 90 degrees to each other, him facing the original direction, you on his outside, facing his side. In this positions his arm will be awkwardly bent. Now do the next three moves all at the same time:
a) pull your hand (the one in his handshake) up, so that his elbow points up.
b) use the other hand to grab the elbow from above
c) Step forward
d) Bring his elbow down towards you (the elbow will basically follow an upward circle first pointing to the direction you were facing to finally pointing to you.)

If you do this in a slow and controlled way, you will throw him on the floor (the pain in the elbow  and shoulder joint will do it for you). If you do it fast and brusquely (again it has nothing to do with strength) you will dislocate his shoulder and tear the elbow ligaments. So decide how much you like this guy and use the appropriate amount of speed/control for the desired results.

This is the move it will be better to have it demonstrated to you. (Watch Steven Seagall movies, he is always coming up with this sort of nice stuff).

On second thoughts you can alwyas headbutt him (or pay someone to do it for you).

After doing this to two or three people, you will get well known and you will be always approached with care and consideration.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[newsgroupeuan]

Bernhard,

Isn't the second one a bit over the top? lol
Or was thing thing I'm thinking of not the thing you were describing?

lol

Just follow 6th Gen's way.

[comme_le_vent]

steven seagall rocks! his acting is so convincing!  

interestingly most pianists dont have a problem with handshakes, with one notable exception - glenn gould - he didnt do it for fear of ilness - or even worse - sabotage - sobebody could have a small blade in their hand you know, so this has made me very paranoid  

another thing - when you meet a famous pianist - you really want to shake their hand because you want to have touched the source of your idolization - so handshakes are very common - imagine the thought of having shook hands with liszt or chopin....exactly!

[Hmoll]

 
2. As he grips your hand, rotate your forearm (it is an easy movement requiring no strength and the other person cannot resist it) so that your hand is now palm down and his hand is palm up. Now, grip his hand so that he cannot escape (if he sees what is coming), and move to the outside of his arm. When the handshake started you were facing each other. Now you are at 90 degrees to each other, him facing the original direction, you on his outside, facing his side. In this positions his arm will be awkwardly bent. Now do the next three moves all at the same time:
a) pull your hand (the one in his handshake) up, so that his elbow points up.
b) use the other hand to grab the elbow from above
c) Step forward
d) Bring his elbow down towards you (the elbow will basically follow an upward circle first pointing to the direction you were facing to finally pointing to you.)

If you do this in a slow and controlled way, you will throw him on the floor (the pain in the elbow  and shoulder joint will do it for you). If you do it fast and brusquely (again it has nothing to do with strength) you will dislocate his shoulder and tear the elbow ligaments. So decide how much you like this guy and use the appropriate amount of speed/control for the desired results.

I think in Japanese that's called "katatetori ikkyo."
I like Nikkyo better.

[bernhard]

I think in Japanese that's called "katatetori ikkyo."
I like Nikkyo better.

Yes, there are many techniques one can use (including kicking the balls )

However, from a handshake position both ikkyo and nikkyo (I like it too - and sankyo!) would be awkward to apply. Actually sankyo would work fine - but I feel tired only of thinking of describing it.  

The technique I described is actually a variation of Shiho nage (try it and you will see what I mean). Again, my description in words may be misleading.

Domo arigato gozaimashita.
Bernhard.

[allchopin]

(Watch Steven Seagall movies, he is always coming up with this sort of nice stuff).

OMG, that guy has the girliest run.  His arms flail and he takes a bunch of small steps... that man should never run in any of his movies.

[bernhard]

Bernhard,

Isn't the second one a bit over the top? lol

Yeah!

Or was thing thing I'm thinking of not the thing you were describing?

Er... Come again?

[bernhard]

OMG, that guy has the girliest run.  His arms flail and he takes a bunch of small steps... that man should never run in any of his movies.

Maybe, but look at his skills as an actor, the emotional depth he lends to his characters, how much he stretches himself inevery new movie/role. Then his running stops mattering so much.

[robert_henry]

I'm surprised to hear of a pianist having problems with handshakes.  We usually have a monster grip.  I have the strongest hands of anyone I know, and I always enjoy a good solid handshake.  I lactually look forward to them.  I especially enjoy the look on people's faces when they realize I have a strong grip.  The only other people who can give pianists a run for their money are massage therapists.

Also, what do you mean by "jokers?"  I can't recall a time when someone squeezed my hand just to see if they could hurt me.  I'm sure they are just giving you the handshake they think you would want - a strong one.  It aslo probably has something to do with the "alpha-dog" business, too.  Just don't be a wimp and give them the vice-grip back.  

Either way, two seconds of pain isn't going to kill you or destroy your playing, so endure it to avoid their thinking ill of you.

Bernhard:
I have two friendly observations about you: You like to make lists and you sure do post a lot!  How do you find the time?!  Anyway, I always enjoy your comments.

Robert Henry

[bernhard]

Bernhard:
I have two friendly observations about you: You like to make lists and you sure do post a lot!  How do you find the time?!  Anyway, I always enjoy your comments.

Robert Henry

I am trying to catch up with Ed before he comes back.

Thanks. I always look forward to your contributions as well.

[Clare]

I have a handshake buzzer you can all borrow. You hide it in your hand and it gives a really unpleasant electric shock.

I haven't used it before, but I might have to use it on my new evil piano teacher.....

[comme_le_vent]

lol bernhard - your insane!
ed got his insanely high post count by posting 1 word replies like 'quite' all the time.

dude!, your writing whole essays in every post!

a tip - spread out your comments/insights through several posts.  

[allchopin]

Quite

[robert_henry]

BTW, the use of "quite" by itself is incorrect.  It is a modifier (or whatever the correct label is).  For instance, "quite GOOD", or "quite SMELLY."  Not simply "quite."

RH

[allchopin]

Maybe, but look at his skills as an actor, the emotional depth he lends to his characters, how much he stretches himself inevery new movie/role. Then his running stops mattering so much.

I don't care what you say- that's one wussy run.

[johnreef]

BTW, the use of "quite" by itself is incorrect.  It is a modifier (or whatever the correct label is).

RH

adverb

[robert_henry]

Yes, "quite" is quite the adverb.  Thanks, John.  I always knew you had a use, despite what everyone else says.  Hah!

RH

I'm coming up this weekend.  Let's get together for a beer.  

[cellodude]

BTW, the use of "quite" by itself is incorrect.  It is a modifier (or whatever the correct label is).  For instance, "quite GOOD", or "quite SMELLY."  Not simply "quite."

RH

Context, Robert, context! And since this is a forum we are actually 'talking' with each other. The 'quite' by itself comes after a point is made. So in our context and also the context of what was being discussed 'quite' in isolation in not quite (oh dear!) incorrect.

dennis lee

[allthumbs]

Greetings

6th Gen Beethoven is right. The best strategy is to make such nice, considerate people suffer. But what if unlike him you do not have a vice grip handshake of your own?

Here are two options.

You will have to practice them until they became natural and smooth. (They are also difficult to follow from the written account so get someone knowledgeable to show it to you. I like to flatter myself that I invented the first one, so you would have to see me, but it is easy to understand option. The second one is a traditional move both in ju-jitsu and aikido, so go tho your nearest martial art school and enroll! )

1. with your hand in the grips of the nicce person, do this:

a) grab your own thumb and make a solid fist around it. b) Use the knuckles of the hand gripping the thumb to put pressure on the back of the hand of the nice friend. c) this is done using a movement like the movement one does when accelerating a motorbike.

There are many nervous pressure points in the back of one's hands. You are basically crushing such pressure points with your knuckles. It requires very little strength, and it immediately makes the other person's hand open besides causing excruciating pain as the nerve centres get pressed. At which point you can grip thier hand and not let them go away. I had some big fellow once on his knees crying and begging me to let him go with this one. Since I am not that big or strong, and this particular guy was not very well liked (he was always crusshing people's hands), this caused untold merriment amongst the crowd in the party where it happened.

2. As he grips your hand, rotate your forearm (it is an easy movement requiring no strength and the other person cannot resist it) so that your hand is now palm down and his hand is palm up. Now, grip his hand so that he cannot escape (if he sees what is coming), and move to the outside of his arm. When the handshake started you were facing each other. Now you are at 90 degrees to each other, him facing the original direction, you on his outside, facing his side. In this positions his arm will be awkwardly bent. Now do the next three moves all at the same time:
a) pull your hand (the one in his handshake) up, so that his elbow points up.
b) use the other hand to grab the elbow from above
c) Step forward
d) Bring his elbow down towards you (the elbow will basically follow an upward circle first pointing to the direction you were facing to finally pointing to you.)

If you do this in a slow and controlled way, you will throw him on the floor (the pain in the elbow  and shoulder joint will do it for you). If you do it fast and brusquely (again it has nothing to do with strength) you will dislocate his shoulder and tear the elbow ligaments. So decide how much you like this guy and use the appropriate amount of speed/control for the desired results.

This is the move it will be better to have it demonstrated to you. (Watch Steven Seagall movies, he is always coming up with this sort of nice stuff).

On second thoughts you can alwyas headbutt him (or pay someone to do it for you).

After doing this to two or three people, you will get well known and you will be always approached with care and consideration.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Bernhard's suggestions are sound, but often when a boorish person decides to squeeze your hand in a social situation for what ever reason, it's usually to try to embarrass you by your display of pain. Rather than make a big scene by tossing the lout on his head, (which he would probably deserve), a much better approach would be to turn the tables on him and make him uncomfortable.

How? by pushing his thumb towards the heel of his hand.

To do this simply lay your left thumb along side the brute's right thumb (both thumbs pointing in the same direction) and your other fingers hooked on the back his wrist, (or if your hands are smaller just push his thumb away from you) and simply squeeze your hand like you were squeezing a tennis ball so that his thumbs curls inward towards his palm.

At the same time as you are squeezing his thumb, pull your other hand away as if you just finished the handshake. Meanwhile the lout will be the one grimacing.

The beauty of this technique is it is subtle and often others in the room may not even be aware of what took place!

I hope that made sense.

Cheers

[Daevren]

I always give the feeblest handshake possible.

If they comment on it then I tell them I do not feel the need to impress them. Or that a firmer handshake would make no difference on the impression they get from me.

I guess I can get away with it because of my 6 feet 4 athletic build and my eccentric personality.

[dorfmouse]

I was the recipient of a vice-like handshake which squeezed the fingers of my right hand grindingly together.  This happened  several months ago. The middle joint of my middle finger is still very slightly swollen and I can't completely curl that finger up to the base. It was very sore at the time and it still feels a bit different.  All I could think to do at the time was ice and gently bending and stretching my hand.

Any idea if it's likely to go completely back to normal?

(Hopeful face icon needed!)

[whynot]

This is definitely a problem!!  I am intrigued by the suggestions from Bernhard and allthumbs.  I am a small person with very small hands.  They're quite (!) strong, but not big enough to wrap around another peron's hand and vice-grip them back, so I'm going to practice all the other techniques I read here.  Usually, I do wince and show that it's a problem so they know in the future-- because some people do actually care-- but that doesn't prevent a crushing in the moment, and I have had real lasting pain from these encounters.  So I'm going to experience with leverage.
 

[bernhard]

Greetings

Bernhard's suggestions are sound, but often when a boorish person decides to squeeze your hand in a social situation for what ever reason, it's usually to try to embarrass you by your display of pain. Rather than make a big scene by tossing the lout on his head, (which he would probably deserve), a much better approach would be to turn the tables on him and make him uncomfortable.

How? by pushing his thumb towards the heel of his hand.

To do this simply lay your left thumb along side the brute's right thumb (both thumbs pointing in the same direction) and your other fingers hooked on the back his wrist, (or if your hands are smaller just push his thumb away from you) and simply squeeze your hand like you were squeezing a tennis ball so that his thumbs curls inward towards his palm.

At the same time as you are squeezing his thumb, pull your other hand away as if you just finished the handshake. Meanwhile the lout will be the one grimacing.

The beauty of this technique is it is subtle and often others in the room may not even be aware of what took place!

I hope that made sense.

Cheers

Do I get the inpression that you have an obsession with thumbs?

Ah... Thumb locks! So much repertory that a life time is not enough to explore it all.

Here is another one: Instead of pushing the thumb back as you suggested (which is of course effective), one can also bend the first phalanx (the thumb tip). It is the natural way of bending it, so at the start the offender will not be forewarned. However as you keep pressing the pain will be excruciating.

As always these things are much better learnt by demonstration than by a written account.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

I was the recipient of a vice-like handshake which squeezed the fingers of my right hand grindingly together.  This happened  several months ago. The middle joint of my middle finger is still very slightly swollen and I can't completely curl that finger up to the base. It was very sore at the time and it still feels a bit different.  All I could think to do at the time was ice and gently bending and stretching my hand.

Any idea if it's likely to go completely back to normal?

(Hopeful face icon needed!)

It does not really matter. Just sue the gal/guy.

Best wishes.
Bernhard.

[allchopin]

I guess since this has turned into an aikido discussion, I have a question.. is there an even more discreet way using only one hand (the shaking hand)?  These tecniques seem to employ both hands in order to be successful, but if you really were fighting someone, they could easily see this other hand coming and prepare for it, or at least know that you're up to something. 

[bernhard]

This is definitely a problem!!  I am intrigued by the suggestions from Bernhard and allthumbs.  I am a small person with very small hands.  They're quite (!) strong, but not big enough to wrap around another peron's hand and vice-grip them back, so I'm going to practice all the other techniques I read here.  Usually, I do wince and show that it's a problem so they know in the future-- because some people do actually care-- but that doesn't prevent a crushing in the moment, and I have had real lasting pain from these encounters.  So I'm going to experience with leverage.
 

All the techniques suggested by myself, allthumbs and others, when properly done require very little strength. Any child could do it. However they do demand technique and know-how, so the best way to go about it is to actually enroll in a martial arts school that teaches this sort of stuff (e.g., aikido, ju-jitsu, hapkido, shin-na) and learn it through demonstration and practice.

Consider Japanese master of aikido (founder of Yoshinkan style) Gozo Shioda. He was a very formal man, who always wore suits. However, at one point in his career he went to California to give a seminar. His Californian students, a vey laid back bunch, thought that the suits he brought were a definite no-no. So they took him to a shop to buy some more informal clothes. Shioda was such a small man, that they had to buy clothes for him at the children's department.

Here is another Shioda story. Robert Kennedy ( I can't remember if it was just before or just after he was ellected president) went on a visit to Japan, and there he was treated to a visit to Shioda's training hall. At that point in time Aikido was a very "secret" martial art and few people even in Japan had heard of it.  So it was quite an honour to be allowed into Shioda's class. RK brought with him - the visit had been scheduled for early in the morning - a couple of body guards, two massive American mariners. They all watched the demonstrations where Shioda seemed to throw people around effortlessly and without breaking a sweat. The mariners were not that impressed - they thought it was all pre-arranged and not very realistic combat. So one of them asked to have a go. Bad idea. He was effortlessly thrown around the hall for a while and experienced some very unsavoury pain in the process (aikido is based on locks to the joints - you are not really thrown: you jump of your own accord to alleviate the pain ). The other mariner, had a good time watching his colleague, and afterwards could not resist a few quips. The challenger then gave the - now famous - excuse that we all have used when training does not go quite as we expect: "I didn't have my breakfast".

Ok. So what do you do if you feel weaker than your tormentor and without the knowledge and technique of a Shioda? Simple. You need and "instrument of attitude adjustment". A baseball bat, for instance. Or a girlfriend/boyfriend who is stronger and has the knowhow. You can introduce your boyfriend/girlfriend to your tormentor and let them have some fun. You can also scream. I mean really sream. In the UK this can work wonders, since nothing disturbs the British more than embarrasment (especially public embarrasment).

And now that I am thinking of it, you can alwayas poke a finger on his/her eye (no strength needed fot that), or bite him/her. Too violent for you?

Here are another two:

1.grab his/her lower lip with your indexfinger/thumb (like a vice). S/he will follow you wherever you go (it is called a "come-along").

2. Using your free hand, move to his/her side (with your other hand still on his/her grip) and place your extended index finger under his/her nose. Now push up, back and down. He will land on the floor with no need of strength on your part. Again, this must be demonstrated for you to understand it properly.

There is just too much of this stuff. This doesn't even scratch the surface.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

I guess since this has turned into an aikido discussion, I have a question.. is there an even more discreet way using only one hand (the shaking hand)?  These tecniques seem to employ both hands in order to be successful, but if you really were fighting someone, they could easily see this other hand coming and prepare for it, or at least know that you're up to something. 

yes, sure (besides the ones I just posted):

1. Knee him on the gullies - or even better, aim at the pubic bone: it is even more painful and work for both males and females.

2. kick his/her kneecap.

3. roundhouse kick him or her to the side of the knee.

4. Call for your boyfriend/girlfriend to strangle* him/her from behind, so s/he will not see it coming

* you can replace strangle here for shooting, stabbing, castrating, etc.

Really the only limitation (as in music) is your knowledge of repertory.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[torchygirl]

Pardon me for stepping into this testosterone maelstrom, but Bernhard I think you mean John Kennedy.  Robert Kennedy was assassinated during his run for president.

Karen

[allchopin]

I can't imagine the handshake that would lead to a shooting

[lagin]

Bernard!  I really didn't picture you as one to make posts like this.  Are you feeling okay?

[allthumbs]

Greetings

Do I get the inpression that you have an obsession with thumbs?

What makes you think I have an obsession with thumbs? I have never thumbed my nose at anything, even an obsession!

Ah... Thumb locks! So much repertory that a life time is not enough to explore it all.

Here is another one: Instead of pushing the thumb back as you suggested (which is of course effective), one can also bend the first phalanx (the thumb tip). It is the natural way of bending it, so at the start the offender will not be forewarned. However as you keep pressing the pain will be excruciating.

As always these things are much better learnt by demonstration than by a written account.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

I like that one too! A good rule to remember, bend joints, appendages etc in the direction that they weren't meant to bend!


I'm trying to remember the movie, where the good guy tells the bad guy that all he was going to use was his thumb to defend himself, then proceeded to strike his hapless assailant in various pressure points with the prominent digit as he evaded his attacks. Quite amusing and one that would deserve the epithet as "all thumbs". hahaha



Cheers

[bernhard]

I'm trying to remember the movie, where the good guy tells the bad guy that all he was going to use was his thumb to defend himself, then proceeded to strike his hapless assailant in various pressure points with the prominent digit as he evaded his attacks. Quite amusing and one that would deserve the epithet as "all thumbs". hahaha



Cheers

That would be Sean Connery in “The Presidio”:

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6305678715/ref%3Dnosim/heartofscotla-20/102-7249285-9292127

Sean Connery also uses – this time the index finger – to neutralise a bodyguard in “Rising Sun”. He simply hits the unfortunate guy’s windpipe with his index finger leading to his suffocation – another useful strategy to remember when exchanging handshakes.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

I can't imagine the handshake that would lead to a shooting

What about George Bush and Tony Blair's handshake? That led to far more than a "shooting".

[bernhard]

Bernard!  I really didn't picture you as one to make posts like this.  Are you feeling okay?

 

[bernhard]

Pardon me for stepping into this testosterone maelstrom, but Bernhard I think you mean John Kennedy.  Robert Kennedy was assassinated during his run for president.

Karen

No, it was definitely Robert, so I guess it was during his presidential campaign.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[torchygirl]

No, it was definitely Robert, so I guess it was during his presidential campaign.

Hope I'm not stepping on any toes continuing this conversation here, but ps Bernhard RFK was JFK's attorney general and right-hand-man kinda-guy.  So if it was definitely RFK then it might have been when he was acting as a representative of him.

[bernhard]

Hope I'm not stepping on any toes continuing this conversation here, but ps Bernhard RFK was JFK's attorney general and right-hand-man kinda-guy.  So if it was definitely RFK then it might have been when he was acting as a representative of him.

Ok, I checked it.

Robert Kennedy visited Japan – as U.S. Attorney General – in 1962. His visit to the Yoshinkan is briefly mentioned here (Look at the Gozo Shioda profile).

https://www.aiki-buken.com/chronology.html

and here:

https://www.aikidojournal.com/encyclopedia.php?entryID=324

However, this is not really about RK .

In fact he is of no importance whatsoever to the point being made. The point, (in case we have forgotten), was that Gozo Shioda – a diminutive man in his late forties, easily defeated a young mariner twice his size , showing that size and strength are no match for technique and know-how.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[allthumbs]

Greetings

The point, (in case we have forgotten), was that Gozo Shioda – a diminutive man in his late forties, easily defeated a young mariner twice his size , showing that size and strength are no match for technique and know-how.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Ippon!

(Touche) with an accent aigut on the e


Cheers

[Dazzer]

what one of these? ---> è

hehe

[allthumbs]

what one of these? ---> è

hehe

No - one of these ---> é 

I just figured out how to do it in Microsoft Word, then do the cut and paste thing!

Cheers

[pianowelsh]

easy get your best friend to stand beside you in a tux and tell them - 'be carefull he bites!!!' - you then start twitching and nashing your teeth - problem solved!!

[tenn]

Context, Robert, context! And since this is a forum we are actually 'talking' with each other. The 'quite' by itself comes after a point is made. So in our context and also the context of what was being discussed 'quite' in isolation in not quite (oh dear!) incorrect.

dennis lee

In this context I believe it's called an interjection. Bernhard's solution would probably give rise to a number of interjections, ejaculations and exclamations. He might even get the odd verb followed by a preposition.