Starting too fast?

[usahockey]

Hello everyone, here's my first post!

Here's my situation...about 6 months ago I decided I wanted to learn the piano, as I love music, and the piano is one of my favorite instruments.  I signed up for a piano class at school (community college), and was one of the better students for a while...but I just got bored with it, and then frustrated when we started going into music theory that I didn't understand or care about learning at the time (I was the only one taking the class just for fun, not a music major..everyone else was simultaneously enrolled in a theory and ear training class) so I just dropped it. 

Instead, I just decided to learn some music that I would enjoy playing.  So I started with one of my favorite songs by Scott Joplin, The Entertainer...then learned Fur Elise, another favorite.  Currently I am working on the 3rd page of the Maple Leaf Rag, as well as Beethoven's Pathetique 2nd Movement. 

I do know how to read music, but of course my sightreading is not very good at all...I have played other instruments, listened to a lot of music, my ear is pretty good to where I can play things on the piano just by ear, and keep on rhythm, etc.  My main concern is that I am still a beginner, and yet I am just learning these pieces that are supposed to be too advanced...is this going to give me problems in the future, such as developing bad habits, or not working on the basics before just playing songs?  At first the idea of practicing scales and learning chords, theory, etc bored me, but I really want to progress with my playing, and will do what is necessary.  Working on songs that I really like is a lot more fun and motivating though.  So basically I'm wondering if this is a problem or not.

Other than just working on songs, what basics should I focus on?  I have this book: 

https://www.amazon.com/Contemporary-Class-Piano-Elyse-Mach/dp/0195166884/ref=sr_1_1/103-6084705-5273405?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175835905&sr=1-1

Which we used during that piano class, and it seemed pretty good to me.  Now that I will have some more free time over the summer, I'd really like to devote more of it to getting the basics down that I need in order to progress...is working my way through this book a good start?  I have had no problems with motivation when learning the songs, as I really enjoy playing them, and it feels great to finally "get it".  I think I probably drove some family members crazy when I finally finished the entertainer and played it over and over, and still do, trying to make every part of it sound right...it's just a lot of fun.  Scales and theory, not so much, but now that I have more time I will work on what I need to.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Brian

[danny elfboy]

I don't believe that playing advanced pieces as a beginner is really a problem.
Consider this:

To avoid bad habits, injuries and such you need to focus on the basic foundation you've learned and applying those basic foundations to every note you play.

What you don't want to do is going through an advantage piece by practicing large fractions of the piece. But as long as you practice small fragments and remember to apply your good foundation to everything you play I don't see any problem.

The problem is when you focus on something so large that you focus get more dispersed than specifically aimed and you forget to apply the basic foundations.

Learning something you don't know is the way your learn so that's not a problem and focusing on small bits of an advanced piece and link all the bits together rather than being distracted by the whole picture kinds of mimic the way you begin as a beginner.

The point about beginner pieces it's making it easy and non-complex enough so that you can focus on just one thing at a time. You can apply the same principle to advantage pieces as long as you don't lose the focus on small bits and practice one thing at a time, one technique pattern at a time, one rhythmical or technical problem at a time.

Never focus on large chunks and focus on small fractions and you'll be okay.

[aaron_ginn]

Brian, you sound like my clone!

I started playing last June.  Like you, I can read music but I can't sight-read.  I have some background in music (mainly vocals and quite a bit of guitar), and I have a good ear.  The way I learn is by breaking the piece down into small bits (measures, notes, etc.) and mastering those bits.  I then put the bits together.  Eventually, the piece is memorized and I don't consult the score again.  I'm an engineer, so this methodology fits me and works well for me.

I started out playing scales and such and quickly grew bored.  I then decided to start learning the first movement of the Moonlight Sonata.  It took a few months, but I finally made it (although I'd have to refresh myself to play it again).  In parallel, I also started learning the Maple Leaf Rag simply because it sounded like fun to play.  I need to learn the last portion of the work, but I can play it through the Trio.  I actually performed this in front of my church (around 300 people) at a gathering last November, and although I was extremely nervous and messed up in several places, I received a huge ovation.  I really need to learn the last part of it and polish it off.  People love to hear it, though I grew sick of it.

I also played around with the Pathetique 2nd movement, learned a Bach Invention (#4 in D minor), and fooled around with the Moonlight 3rd movement.  Now, I'm working solely on Chopin.  I can play the Op. 9 No. 1 Nocturne, which is grade 8, well enough to perform.  I can almost play the Op. 6 No. 2 Mazurka ( grade 7 ) well enough to perform, I am closing in on finishing the Op. 30 No. 2 Mazurka (grade 6, love this work!), and I can now play about half of the Waltz in C sharp minor (Op. 64 No. 2, grade 7).  Although my technique was pretty poor, I can feel myself improving with each and every work I attempt.  I'm able to relax more and the piano feels much more natural.  Most of these works are very difficult starting out, but once I get over the initial humps, things start to fall in place much faster.

I think I'm doing pretty darn well with that repertoire considering I've been playing nine months.  Looking back, I wouldn't do anything different.  I don't want to fool around with pieces I'll get tired of.  I want to play things that I'll enjoy playing forever.  All those pieces fit that criterion.  If you're having fun and are making progress, keep doing what you're doing.  The main thing is to set reasonable goals, meet them, and move on.  Then practice those goals again to reinforce them.  For instance, when you sit down to practice for thirty minutes, tell yourself you are going to learn measure 15 in the LH.  Once you can do it well, move on to the next goal (say measure 15 in the RH).  The next day sit down and see if it has stuck.  If not, practice and reinforce it.  Don't just start at the beginning of a piece and play all the way though it until you get to the portion you're having trouble with.  If you do that, you master the first few measures and never finish the work.  Break the piece apart and then put it back together.  If you do that, you'll progress much faster.

Good luck!

[usahockey]

The way I learn is by breaking the piece down into small bits (measures, notes, etc.) and mastering those bits.  I then put the bits together.  Eventually, the piece is memorized and I don't consult the score again.  I'm an engineer, so this methodology fits me and works well for me.

hey Aaron

That is exactly the same thing I have been doing...go through and memorize the piece, then practice it over and over.  Am also considering going into engineering possibly!  heh.

At the moment I am working on the trio part of maple leaf, and so far it seems easier than the part before that.

  I've been looking at some other pieces to start working on, such as Chopin's Mazurka op17no4, Schubert's Moment Musical No 4, and Tchaikovsky's "June" from seasons.  Those, and I will also keep working on the entire Pathetique sonata.

I'm sure these things will all take some time, but if I am working on a song that I really enjoy, no matter the difficulty, I can finish it eventually with practice.  If I work on something I hate, chances are I won't be able to do it. 

Over the summer I am going to start working with some piano books, learning more theory, as well as working more on my ear training...these in addition to working on those other pieces, because I should be able to practice 2-3 hours a day.  I really enjoy jazz as well as classical, so if I want to play that I will need to learn the theory. 

Thanks for the help guys, and any more tips for my improving are certainly welcome

[aaron_ginn]

hey Aaron

That is exactly the same thing I have been doing...go through and memorize the piece, then practice it over and over.  Am also considering going into engineering possibly!  heh.

At the moment I am working on the trio part of maple leaf, and so far it seems easier than the part before that.

I think the trio is the most difficult part.  Those huge LH jumps are very difficult to play at speed.  But hey, different strokes and all that.

  I've been looking at some other pieces to start working on, such as Chopin's Mazurka op17no4, Schubert's Moment Musical No 4, and Tchaikovsky's "June" from seasons.  Those, and I will also keep working on the entire Pathetique sonata.

I'm sure these things will all take some time, but if I am working on a song that I really enjoy, no matter the difficulty, I can finish it eventually with practice.  If I work on something I hate, chances are I won't be able to do it. 

Over the summer I am going to start working with some piano books, learning more theory, as well as working more on my ear training...these in addition to working on those other pieces, because I should be able to practice 2-3 hours a day.  I really enjoy jazz as well as classical, so if I want to play that I will need to learn the theory. 

Thanks for the help guys, and any more tips for my improving are certainly welcome

On thing I would recommend is that you take a look at Chang's free online book on piano practice.  It has certainly helped me.  The book seems to appeal to the more technical crowd so it's probably up your alley.  Many piano teachers here disagree with much (or all) of it, but if you don't have a teacher it may help you as well.  The link is below.

https://members.aol.com/chang8828/contents.htm

[archneko]

Hmm, I never cared for theories...
Personally, I really don't care about levels. Just as long as you can read one of the notes, you can play it as well as finish the piece..
it is never too early to start, unless you are a toddler who has not obtained the property of concentration.