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Topic: All my missing posts  (Read 3309 times)

Offline virtuosic1

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All my missing posts
on: April 07, 2007, 10:31:34 PM
I've been asked to put them back, but putting them back in the exact correct place and order is difficult, as many are on interrelated subjects from different threads. The content will hopefully prove helpful to those that wish to peruse new concepts and improve their performance at and even away from the keyboard. The contents will probably be met with great consternation by the members who troll and slander me at every opportunity.

If you don't want my posts here, simply take it up with Forum administrators. If you wish to disagree with my concepts, do so in the thread. If you wish to slander, do it by PM so the forum can remain BS free.

Offline virtuosic1

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On the Chopin opus 10#2
Reply #1 on: April 07, 2007, 10:32:47 PM
The Chopin opus 10 #2 is perfect for developing the 5-4-3 fingers and training them to work as though you had another thumb, index and middle finger on the other end of your hand. Ideally, playing this etude in all keys two different ways will accomplish this mind/keyboard link with the 5-4-3 fingers. The first method is to play the etude in all keys, eliminating the written notes for the thumb and index fingers (just the linear phrases played by the 3-4-5 fingers). After mastering this, incorporate the written notes played by the thumb and index fingers, playing the Etude in all keys.
You can also play the right hand part in the left hand, repeating the above 2 methods. Total relaxation, the fingers never breaking contact, just skirting the surface of the keys, a minimum of lateral and vertical motion, is the goal.
I used this Etude and the above methods to increase my facility and velocity/articulation potential by developing 3-4-5 fingers with as much technical command as the 1-2-3 fingers.

Offline virtuosic1

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Re: On the Chopin opus 10#2
Reply #2 on: April 07, 2007, 10:36:20 PM
I'm going to hear all types of criticism, and trolls from every ethnic background will show up to tell you that I know nothing about playing the piano, or anything else for that matter, but I never tire playing 3-4-5 chromatics. It has to do with relaxation, very minute finger motion, just enough to allow the hammer to strike the string, and incorporating a specific wave-like motion of the hand, comprised of more subtle but definite wave-like motions of the wrist and forearm. It's actually a motion of several wave-like, repetitive sequences of motion, carefully coordinated (actually choreographed) independently from the finger strikes of the 3-4-5 fingers to sound the chords while still perfectly executing the 3-4-5 chromatics with a minimum of motion.

For example:

The earth rotates
It also orbits the sun
The sun orbits the galaxy
The galaxy orbits a super cluster of local galaxies
The supercluster is moving in space also.

ergo: The earth is moving in MANY planes, in helix-like fashion.

Here's Chopin's true genius. Not simply the etudes themselves, but beyond the genius of simply the compositions themselves. Each etude is designed to be played with a specific "dance" of the playing mechanism. A specific motion that repeats on each beat (each 4-note group) on the op 10 #2. Each etude is more wave motion specific, that is, necessitating a specific choreography of the elbow, forearm, wrist, and hand CARRYING the fingers to the targets to execute them effortlessly. A dancer couldn't periot if they didn't leap into the air first, right? The idea is for the REST of the playing mechanism to bring the fingers into contact with the proper targets at the proper time with a "dance" of wave-like motion. The proper lift of hand combined with the correct angle of wrist rotation, repeated over and over for each group. This is how playing these was second nature to someone that weighed 108 pounds and was a poor physical specimen. Strength wasn't needed. Relaxation, and the proper "hand-dance". A Sequential undulations of wave-like motions carrying the fingers to their target with the most efficient, minimal of extraneous movement. This is how velocity in ANY activity is attained. Through carefully coordinated movements of the ENTIRE mechanism, which also incorporates the shoulder, the muscles of the torso (shoulder, pectoralis, etc., even the entire body).

Offline virtuosic1

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More on total body involvement
Reply #3 on: April 07, 2007, 10:38:42 PM
I've studied combative arts since I was 8. Is anyone else here disciplined in a martial art? Are you familiar with the term "kata"?

Kata are a specific pattern of motion used in martial arts. Each form has its own katas, and each kata is designed as an outgrowth for overcoming a specific combative problem. Like a choreographed dance. When two martial arts stuntmen go at it in action movies, those rehearsed motions can be considered kata.

Through economy of motion, undulations of the body are undertaken in order to effectively bring the striking objects (the fists and hands, or in some forms, knees and elbows as well) into contact with your targets. Sound familiar?

Offline virtuosic1

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Re: More on total body involvement
Reply #4 on: April 07, 2007, 10:39:52 PM
This is the great falicy, perpetuated throughthe past 200 years. "Raise the fingers high, and strike each note with precision". The idea of playing slowly with high finger action when the END GOAL is to be able play effortlessly at the surface of the keys, is as ridiculous as if a runner trained for the 100 yard dash by goose-stepping or river-dancing.

Raising the fingers high stifles the naturally coordinated movements of the rest of the playing mechanism necessary to produce dexterous, practical velocity. Playing rapidly requires a ballet of the hand. A balance of all the parts of the playing mechanism so there is a FLOW, a helical, symbiotic motion of the fingers, hands, wrists, forearms, and entire body.

Offline virtuosic1

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Exaggerated finger height
Reply #5 on: April 07, 2007, 10:41:34 PM
I maintain that while granted, we are all different in general terms, nobody with an anatomically normal, articualting playing mechanism will benefit from exercises that exaggerate motion instead of economizing it. Unless possible they have a genetic deformity of, or severe injury to the hand, wrist, fingers, or forearms, and striking the keys with fingers raised high on each stroke is the only way they can depress the keys.

Offline virtuosic1

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On controlling neurological resetting
Reply #6 on: April 07, 2007, 10:43:07 PM
Note: reply to Danny Elfboy:

Danny, your posts on the neurological firing of muscles are spot on. This is what happens on a neurological level. The only problem is that these things take place on an autonomous level, beyond our conscious control, just as our hearts will beat, whether we are trying to consciously stop them from beating. We can exercise SOME type of control over our pulse, by relaxation and bio-feedback, but only to a small degree.

Offline virtuosic1

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Adjunct exercise for opus 10 #2
Reply #7 on: April 07, 2007, 10:46:26 PM
An excellent adjunct exercise for playing this piece is to practice ascending and descending augmented triads on the beat, with the 3-4-5 fingers chromatically linking them.

CEG# together, then A - A# - B
EG#C together, then C# - D - D#

etc., etc.

This will force your hand to MOVE and adopt the subtle lilt (yes lilt, as in a dance), a subtle lift with a fast lateral movement to reposition for each new triad

Offline virtuosic1

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On motion and differences between opus 10 #s 1 and 2
Reply #8 on: April 07, 2007, 10:47:51 PM
Once I set a student on the right path, the correct synergistic motion (of all the playing mechanism's individual movements integrated into a specific, repetitive "kata"), the #2 flows easily being that the hand is positioned in a normally encountered position. The #1 however, with the hand having to propel an uncommon stretch between the 4-5 fingers, is a harder task to get used to, even when the pianist is adopting the proper synchronicity of intergrated individual movements.

#2 lies easily within the hand. For most, as the stretch feels uncomfortable, #1 takes some getting used to.

Offline virtuosic1

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Visual targeting
Reply #9 on: April 07, 2007, 10:49:58 PM
Stop looking at the keyboard for starters! Seriously. Relax your playing mechanism but DON'T relax your mind. Think the notes. Know where you are going with each note, then forget about each note, forget about visual targeting and play the phrases.

Offline virtuosic1

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Re: Visual targeting and Lennie Tristano
Reply #10 on: April 07, 2007, 10:53:19 PM
Physically, you affect the piano by your presence and the piano organizes you by its presence. Once your hands contact the surface of the keys, for complete mastery of the keyboard, it must become a part of you, much in the same way that if you have an itch, you don't have to locate it visually, or imagine the motion of your scratching the precise location in your mind. You react decisively and move right to the proper location to scratch, even in complete darkness.

An interesting note: My mentor and teacher, Lennie Tristano was born only able to see shapes and light. By 9, he was completely blind. His technique was among the best whom ever played jazz, and during his early stride piano phase (teens and early 20s), absolutely Tatumesque, before abandoning that style for his own distinctive style of ultra-cool school jazz.

The greatest technique I've ever seen was Tristano. To me, being able to play rapid passages is only a small part of the equation. Tristano could play 10 to 15 note locked hand chord aggregates as easily as Errol garner could play sequences of the usually heard in jazz locked hands style piano 4 to 7 note chord aggregates. Total control of the not only the carefully contrapuntal voice leading of 10 to 15 components improvisationally, while being able to phrase and swing, AND control even the inpendent dynamic weight of these individual components to stress whichever of the voices from the aggregate's fabric that you wish to be heard above others is far more difficult than isolated speed for speed's sake:

Tristano's improvisation:

 https://www.amazon.com/Lennie-Tristano-New/dp/B00000337V/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-2609448-7052931?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1175475985&sr=8-1

Track 13

********

My version:

https://d.turboupload.com/d/1410287/R1_0010.MP3.html

(I recorded this at about Tristano's tempo. Usually I'll play it in about 2:30 instead of 3:00 'ish, becuase I prefer it with a little more swing and propulsion)

****************

Also, being able to improvise in two completely different tempos simultaneously, or in two or more different keys, true independent harmonic counterpoint.

And the ability to transpose instantly, which is an amazing tool for improvisation.

Tristano had these abilities to an extent that I've never witnessed before or after and always strove to learn and emulate. These type of abilities far transcend simply mechanical dexterity at the keyboard.

As far as classical piano, my favorite was Lazar Berman, specifically his performance of Liszt's Sonata in Bmin. He had the widest range of dynamics I've heard live and played with the same ease in every dynamic range, a huge man with an absolutely huge sound

Lennie improvising on Pennies from Heaven in minor:



**********

Listen to tracks 1 and 4 on this sampler:

https://www.amazon.com/Lennie-Tristano-New/dp/B00000337V/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-2609448-7052931?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1175482251&sr=8-1

Each and every note of Lennie's improvised phrases on All of Me and Lennie's Pennies has it's own envelope and dynamic spin, creating tremendous propulsion that was previously unseen from pianists. Lennie's phrasing at the piano is more indicative of a horn player! The stretches sound as though they're actually "breathed".

***********

Interesting video:

&mode=related&search=

All Tristano students.

Listen to tenor sax player Warne Marsh, the way he strings phrases together that seem to propogate, develop, then culminate without any metric relationship to the bar lines or bea

Offline virtuosic1

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On reflexes
Reply #11 on: April 07, 2007, 10:54:39 PM
REFLEXES. Fast AWAY from the piano, fast AT the piano. You can train to be fast although the upper limit of your potential is a by-product of genetics.

Offline virtuosic1

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On Ortmann and integrating the entire mechanism
Reply #12 on: April 07, 2007, 10:56:34 PM
Was Ortmann a pianist himself?

I wrote these posts on another forum about 2 months ago:

I've never heard anything as ridiculous as Ortmann's statements on "finger strength". Finger strength doesn't emanate from the fingers. It's derived from the hand, which derives it's power from the muscles and tendons of the forearm through the wrist as a conduit. The faster you wish to play, over prolonged periods, the more you must relax the muscles and eliminate all tension. Strength and speed = power, the ability to initiate power like a sharp checkmark, turning it on instantly. Power is only feasible in bursts, our fast and slow twitch muscle combinations make it that way. If you wish to play fast for prolonged periods, as one must do while playing virtuoso pieces with long technical passages, relaxation of the playing mechanism is essential, unless tendonitis and carpal syndrome is your goal rather than performing the notes fluidly. Tampering with unnatural finger positions to exert more power than is needed to execute will give you these maladies. You can play hard (with strength) or you can play fast (with relaxation). You can't do both simultaneously (for long anyway).

As far as being conducive to technical velocity, Ortmann's "flat finger" suggestions are right up there with Schumann's ring-finger work-out sling. Anything that "strenghtens" the fingers will develop the muscles of the forearms, increasing their density, thereby reducing the fast twitch fibres ratio to the amount of slow twitch fibres which are built through strength training. A total relaxation, harnessing extremely fast movement at the surface of the keys, and training the mind to link with the keys, letting go and forgetting what is "impossible", is the key to unprecedented velocity. More than enough technique than you will need. I always believed that it's better to play well within the upper limits of your technical ability than to ever approach the absolute top end. Harnessing this type of fast reflex, fast impulse movement, which almost everyone is capable of, will allow you to play faster than you thought possible when called for, with comfort and total ease.

Why would you wish to train the fingers individually? The fingers get to the notes because they are brought there by the hand, wrist, forearm, elbow, shoulder, etc., etc.

For instance, I can comp two chords for each downstroke of the forearm. One on the downward movement of the forearm, and another on the upward stroke of the forearm while resetting the forearm for another downward stroke. How? As soon as the initial chord is struck, the forearm starts to lift the hand for another. As the fingers leave the keys while the forearm lifts, the hand is waved down to strike another chord (or octave, or note) like you're waving hello to the keyboard! If you play octaves with this undulating hand on a lifting and descending forearm, AND incorporate 4-5 fingers into the equation (or even 3-4-5 along with the thumb on successive octaves), you'll improve the velocity in which you can play octaves two-fold!

The fingers work together, not individually. The entire playing mechanism works together, not independently, although most are taught the individualization approach at the keyboard.

Offline virtuosic1

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On beginning melodic improvisation
Reply #13 on: April 07, 2007, 10:58:32 PM
Based on what you wrote, have her get the sheet music for two standards. Something along the lines of:

Out of Nowhere
All the Things You Are
These Foolish Things
Just Friends
All of Me
Sweet Georgia Brown

etc., etc.

By the way, here's Oscar on Sweet Georgia Brown:



and Keith on All the Things You Are:



Have her learn the chords and melody. Tunes like these, their chord progressions and melodies, serve as the basis for 95% of all jazz improvisation. The more interesting the chord changes, the more potential there is for harmonic and linear development. Once she learns the melody and chords to your satisfaction, have her start to improvise very simple melodies based on the chords. Start her at quarter = 60, and have her play the chord in the left hand and improvise half notes (like I said, very simple) in the right hand that are limited to chord tones only. For example, a G7th chord, she can choose only either G-B-D-F, for now. Stress voice leading and linear gravity, even though only using very limited available tones for now. Broken down to this simple level, every element she plays will be done so totally under control and at a rate of speed that she can totally understand. Later, gradually increase the available tones to include more notes, for instance, G-A_B_C_D_E_F_G within that G7th chord, possibly letting her progress to quarter notes or combining halves and quarters, allowing ties for interest. The idea is to progress in note values and available tones slowly, so she remains in total control of anything she improvises.

Offline virtuosic1

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On 4th and 5th finger independence in La Campanella
Reply #14 on: April 07, 2007, 11:00:06 PM
La Campanella isn't well suited for developing 4/5 independence with increased facility. Here, the 5th finger used on the repeated tone isn't used in an articulatory function. It's used in targeting, like a pendulum, carried to the note by the outward arc of wrist/elbow rotation.

Offline virtuosic1

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On Hanon and others for technique practice
Reply #15 on: April 07, 2007, 11:01:29 PM
Exactly. My practice in the years of pursuing the acquisition of maximal velocity with precise articulation and accurate targeting was concentrated on playing musical passages, excerpts from classical compositions and the jazz solos of Tatum, Peterson, Tristano, Charlie Parker, Eric Dolphy, etc., etc., in each and every key, sometimes two different keys or two different tempos simultaneously to train the mind as well while forging a highly adaptable technique to stretches that both fit beautifully in the hand pianistically, and stretches that didn't. All of these examples, of course where comprised of scalar and arpeggiated elements to varying degrees, more importantly, they were lyrical musical phrases that transcended the "automatic" playing of Hanon or exercises that are without much change. Or the boredom of playing scales that will wake up your fingers while putting your mind to sleep.

Offline virtuosic1

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Hand and finger strength
Reply #16 on: April 07, 2007, 11:02:41 PM
Depressing keys doesn't require much in the way of "hand power". Closing a Captains of Crush #3 or #4 hand-gripper does. The production and use of finger power at the keyboard, which can only be generated by increasing the tension of the soft tissue that activate the fingers, is counterproductive to velocity and finger independence. Extreme velocity and dexterity require extreme relaxation.

Offline virtuosic1

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On improving the opus 10 #1
Reply #17 on: April 07, 2007, 11:06:19 PM
A question was posed as to improving tension-free velocity on the opus 10 #1:

 First off, I would need some technical data. Are your hands small, medium, or large? Can you easily span all minor tenths? Ninths? Octaves? Fingers slender or thick? When you play rapid arpeggiations (now this may take thinking about some aspects of your playing that you haven't considered), do your fingers reach and stretch to the notes, carrying your hand; or does your hand carry your fingers to the targets? Have you been playing this Etude with elbow rotation, hence fanning out the 4th and 5th fingers without much vertical finger motion aiding the depression of the keys? Have you tried altered fingering that requires more active lateral hand motion?

*********

The key word you mentioned is tension, and without seeing you actually play through a few bars of it to precisely isolate potential velocity detriments, I'm going to assume that the stretch between the 3rd, 4th, and 5th fingers, after playing the first two small intervals with the thumb and index finger are what is the cause of tension. That is, stretching for octaves and tenths with the 4-5 fingers. This is usually caused when your hand is not active enough in carrying your fingers to the keys and you're not only imparting the vertical motion in trying to "finger" with the 4-5 fingers after the stretch (which is ordinarily never a problem when playing arpeggios whose cells are limited to the octave), but lateral finger motion as well, the 4 and 5 fingers moving in 2 planes, 2 ranges of motion, which will certainly slow you down and build tension in the interossei muscles of the hand.

Your hands are adequately large enough to play this Etude with hand rotation alone. I don't know if you're familiar with using hand rotation, the hand bringing the fingers to the keys, aided by slight finger vertical motion at the strike of each note to assist in phrasing. Hand rotation will eliminate reaching, or stretching, using the interossei muscles to move the 4-5 fingers laterally.

Try this simple motion. Imagine a large knob, like on an old-fashioned radio, the knob the diameter of a grapefruit. This knob is at about chin level. Reach out with a loose hand just letting your fingers make light contact with the imaginary knob and turn it. Left to right, right to left. Back and forth. Let you elbow remain motionless in the same space throughout this motion example. You should be turning this imaginary knob simply by rotating your hand at the wrist.

Try it slow. Then faster, the main goal to remain relaxed. Try it sitting at the keyboard with the hand held high enough off the keys not to make contact. Your fingers should be loose and outstretched, in playing position, but completely relaxed.

Let's try this on an arpeggio that fits the shape of the hand perfectly. Cdim7th.

C Eb Gb Bbb (A) with the 1-2-3-5 fingering for now. Roll the arpeggio back and forth 1-2-3-5-3-2-1-2-3-5-3-2-1, etc., etc. with your fingers lightly contacting the keys, your hand rotating your fingers through (depressing) the keys. Once you become familiar with the proper symbiosis between hand rotation and fingers, in this case the hand carrying the fingers to the keys, incorporating the hand properly, you'll be able to play this static arpeggio much faster in this way then using fingers alone.

Once you feel comfortable with this, let's expand the arpeggio and turn a slightly "larger knob", closer in size to the configuration of the etude.

C Eb Gb Bbb (A) Dbb (C) with the 1-2-3-4-5 fingering. Follow the same steps laid out above. The fingers slightly more apart, but again, without tension because you are not reaching for the top two keys of each cell, your hand taking that role.

I'll follow up with more once you've gotten these suggestions in hand. This will lead to a prep. exercise that should add 20 to 30 points to the tempo you're playing it at now in a short amount of time, although quarter = 120 is certainly nothing to be ashamed of at all. 

***************

Take your time. Adapt slowly to new ideas, taking each step in analytically as you run through it manually. Live with it for several days and then get back to me with some initial feedback and your ideas on it based on your introduction to this, and then we'll progress to the next phase. Like the wicked witch of the west said, "These things must be done DELLLLLLLL-icately"

Offline virtuosic1

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wave motion of playing mechanism in the Chopin Etudes
Reply #18 on: April 07, 2007, 11:07:51 PM
All the Chopin Etudes are designed to address a specific technical obstacle. They all work and will improve the inherent weaknesses due to the anatomical configuration of the hand. There will be a carry over effect between certain etudes, like the #1 and #2, which both stress 4th and 5th finger execution as their main problem, but each attacks the problem from a completely different angle. The #1 is a hand rotation Etude with the 4-5 extended in a rotative targeting role. In the #2, the 3-4-5 fingers are called upon to be used like another set of 1-2-3 fingers from the opposite end of the hand. In the #2, true articualtive finger independence must be used, and economy of individual vertical motion depressing the keys. This is further complicated by the addition of notes in the thumb and 2nd fingers, forcing execution with a relatively zero planed hand (much easier to execute 3-4-5 chromatics with the hand angled towards the pinky at about a 30 to 45 degree ptich).

My personal belief is that an undulatory motion, some slight wave-like motion of hand rotation towards the thumb on each use of the 1-2 fingers (when a chord is sounded in the right hand on each beat) and then a hand rotation pitched back to the pinky will produce the best effect in executing the #2 (in any key). The 1-2 fingers already in position to play each closely quartered chord, a quick rotation on each beat towards the thumb will automatically produce the chord without even depressing the fingers (just targeting them), immediately after sounding the chords on each beat, the hand rotating back towards the pinky for the following 3 sixteenth notes.

At the piano, this motion should appear almost identically to the way a bassist slaps and pops with his thumb, not articulating with thumb motion, but by rotating the thumb through the string by rotating the hand. 

Offline virtuosic1

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speed, a byproduct of relaxation
Reply #19 on: April 07, 2007, 11:11:14 PM
Speed is all about properly controlled and directed relaxation. The faster you wish to play a passage, the more you must relax. Any tension is detrimental and contra-indictory to velocity. It's not about strength, and not about finger strength. The fastest playing is possible by playing at the surface of the key, eliminating any exaggerated motions.

Offline virtuosic1

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Transposition and sight reading
Reply #20 on: April 07, 2007, 11:30:01 PM
Improving transposition skill is all about improving your musical perception. The ideal way to approach transposition is to view what is to be transposed as waves. A contour or shape that must be intervalically preserved regardless of the starting point. For example, regardless of which rung of a 12 rung ladder you place any object on, the object itself remains unchanged, only the object's relative position to the rest of the room has changed.

It's best to imagine this by transposing while sight reading something. That's why I advocate the use of a movable clef. When we first start to read text, we identify individual letters, then how these letters form a word, which we identify. Then the words form a sentence and convey an idea. At some point, when we're fluent readers, we no longer see the individual letters or words. The shape and content of the sentence's components take on a macro-meaning, and at some further point, we visualize the words, seeing the action described by the words.

Most don't read music this way, but they should. They should see the melodies and harmonies by their contours, not reading individual notes. Once you can view music as a series of contoured, interconnected lines, a fabric, then preserving this contour is an easy task, regardless of which rung of the 12 rung ladder is the starting point!

Transposition and the ability to do so instantly, whether a song, a melody, a riff, a chord progression, etc., is the key to unlocking creative limitation and becoming a superior musician. Technically, playing pieces like Transcendental Etudes in all keys will improve and hone your technique and control to unimagined heights.
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

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