What are these?

[keyofc]

What's a german 7th chord?
anyone know?

And how about the Italian 7th chord?
What is that?

[nolan]

I think you are referring to German and Italian Augmented-Sixth chords. There is also the French A6 chord. They are built on the following scale degrees:

Italian: b6 1 #4
French: b6 1 2 #4
German: b6 1 b3 #4

The A6 chords typically resolve outward: #4 up and b6 down. You will have better luck searching for augmented-sixth chords rather than german/italian 7th.

[keyofc]

Thank you Nolan - but could you give me an example with note names?

[ramseytheii]

Italian: b6 1 #4
French: b6 1 2 #4
German: b6 1 b3 #4

His words translated: b6 = flat 6, b3 = flat 3, and #4 = sharp 4, the numbers referring to scale steps.

In C major, these chords would be:
Italian: A-flat - C - F-sharp
French: A-flat - C - D - F-sharp
German: A-flat - C - E-flat - F-sharp

Through an enharmonic change, the German augmented sixth chord becomes the dominant to the Neapolitan:
A-flat - C - E-flat - G-flat resolving to D-flat major

Otherwise, they tend to strongly resolve towards I 6/4 chords.

Walter Ramsey

[cjp_piano]

In C major, these chords would be:
Italian: A-flat - C - F-sharp
French: A-flat - C - D - F-sharp
German: A-flat - C - E-flat - F-sharp

Through an enharmonic change, the German augmented sixth chord becomes the dominant to the Neapolitan:
A-flat - C - E-flat - G-flat resolving to D-flat major

Otherwise, they tend to strongly resolve towards I 6/4 chords.

Walter Ramsey

 A flat, C, E flat, G flat would resolve to D flat, but the function of the Gr6 is to resolve to I 6/4 (G  C E G), that's why it's spelled with an F sharp, to lead up to the G instead of the G flat resolving down to the F.

[ramseytheii]

A flat, C, E flat, G flat would resolve to D flat, but the function of the Gr6 is to resolve to I 6/4 (G  C E G), that's why it's spelled with an F sharp, to lead up to the G instead of the G flat resolving down to the F.

That's right of course, but through an enharmonic change it will take on another function.  It wouldn't be a German chord anymore, but its origin, the pivot of the modulation to the Neapolitan, would be the German chord.

Walter Ramsey

[cjp_piano]

That's right of course, but through an enharmonic change it will take on another function.  It wouldn't be a German chord anymore, but its origin, the pivot of the modulation to the Neapolitan, would be the German chord.

Walter Ramsey

So you're saying the Gr6 chord would be followed by the enharmonic spelling, making it the dominant 7 of Neopolitan?   Why bother spelling it as a Gr6 and then as Aflat7? 

[ramseytheii]

So you're saying the Gr6 chord would be followed by the enharmonic spelling, making it the dominant 7 of Neopolitan?   Why bother spelling it as a Gr6 and then as Aflat7? 

Sorry, I wasn't clear and probably shouldn't have even added it.  I just meant that one of the possibilities for the German chord is to respell it enharmonically, and use it as a dominant chord.  If it is spelled with F-sharp, it's the German chord, which resolves as you said to I 6/4.  I only wanted to point out that the German chord can additionally be used as a pivot, modulatory chord.

Walter Ramsey

[cjp_piano]

Sorry, I wasn't clear and probably shouldn't have even added it.  I just meant that one of the possibilities for the German chord is to respell it enharmonically, and use it as a dominant chord.  If it is spelled with F-sharp, it's the German chord, which resolves as you said to I 6/4.  I only wanted to point out that the German chord can additionally be used as a pivot, modulatory chord.

Walter Ramsey

Gotcha . . . I love theory.   Serious, I'm a music theory nerd.  I teach a small harmony class and we had just talked about Gr6 chords.  I wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand 

I started to feel inadequate when I realized I was in college when I learned about German 6 chords and here they are, 15-16 years old 

[keyofc]

THANKS everyone!
Just saw this followup of replys

I think I have a love-hate relationship with theory.

Why in the world did they  name these chords with nationalities?

[Bob]

I never heard an answer to that question.  The theory profs wondered.  The best they could say is that they probably have some association with that region.  Makes sense, but I don't think had any hard, definite proof.

Hopefully, it's not the same monks who labeled the modes.