the most over played and overrated composer is...

[thalbergmad]

Don't you guys have anything better to do?

At the moment, no.

Thal

[tylerhink]

Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, Liszt, Berlioz.

What? My Four favorite composers?! I am crying

[healdie]

I would say that Liszt is overated as a composer but Berlioz? that man was way ahead of his time, his writings on Orchestration didn't need updating until Richard Strauss even then he only added newly invented instruments. Tchaikovsky's ballet music is overplayed but if you give his symphonies a listen then he certanly isn't overated.

I would say Chopin is overated personally, i find his works very aesthetically pleasing but i don't feel they carry any real depth, they are like a footballers wife very good to look at but that it.

[shinerl]

Chopin is the best.

try to go to piano forum then go to miscellaneous.
try to search the article "the novice classical composer".

then listen to the music to the composer who claims to be a 15 yr. old composer who has a difficulty in gaining a reputation but has a unbelievably ability to compose.

maybe you will reply that he must be the over-rated  one.

[loonbohol]

By shineRL's point of view

definition of over-rated is a song that is being rated higher than the rating that it deserve. it implies a music with greater subtlety but not rating a really good composition that it is bad because i't was composed by a 15 yr old or any race.

For me the over-played (Not over-rated)composer which compositions we're played on 2003-2008 might be Kajiura Yuki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kajiura_Yuki
might be funny but I have a basis since she sold many albums.

She is a very talented composer than you imagined.

She had Elaborate self-performed piano solos. She is a Virtuoso pianist.
Then she has composed many songs. nobody knows the actual values.
She must have 150~200+ compositions.

Listen to her music and It is impossible not to like her musicality.
She had  originality.

I suggest that you should listen to her compositions.
1.)"A Song of Storm and Fire"
2.)"MATERIALISE"
3.)"Before the storm"
4.)"Canta per me "
5.)"Winter"

Listen to Kajiura's music  =millions of people cannot be wrong.
Don't sue me in court=There is nothing wrong about writing this forum reply.
Watch anime=Millions of Otaku's cannot be wrong.

[communist]

i do like him but i have to say Chopin and i completely disagree with soloiquy

[healdie]

Chopin is the best.

try to go to piano forum then go to miscellaneous.
try to search the article "the novice classical composer".

then listen to the music to the composer who claims to be a 15 yr. old composer who has a difficulty in gaining a reputation but has a unbelievably ability to compose.

maybe you will reply that he must be the over-rated  one.

Surely if someone is struggling to get a reputation then they are not over rated they are under rated?

Also how narrow minded are you to say that Chopin is the best?

[boccaccio]

Stravinsky's definately overrated, especially when he is rated higher than Tchaikovsky. that's just ridiculous!!

[sauergrandson]

Tchaikowsky is overrated.

[ahinton]

If I've not yet been cited here (and I have to admit that I've not scoured every post to this thread so cannot actually be certain that I've not), then I may as well take it as carte blanche to continue to do what I do...

Best,

Not Chopin (unfortunately)

[pianomom5kids]

Jon Shmidt 

[j.s. bach the 534th]

Tchaikovsky and Schumann both should be wiped from the face of the history. Brahms.....well, imo, not the greatest ever...

[retrouvailles]

Stravinsky's definately overrated, especially when he is rated higher than Tchaikovsky. that's just ridiculous!!

I personally think Stravinsky actually deserves a lot of his fame. He was perhaps the most influential composer the 20th century ever saw. And a lot of his pieces were pleasurable to listen to at the same time. Tchakovsky never really did anything revolutionary. Sure, he has nice pieces, but that isn't enough.

[tompilk]

Tchaikovsky and Schumann both should be wiped from the face of the history. Brahms.....well, imo, not the greatest ever...

Brahms?!? How can you say that!?! His late piano works, concertos, symphonies!?!?!?

[j.s. bach the 534th]

Brahms?!? How can you say that!?! His late piano works, concertos, symphonies!?!?!?

I knew this was coming..........

[indutrial]

I personally think Stravinsky actually deserves a lot of his fame. He was perhaps the most influential composer the 20th century ever saw. And a lot of his pieces were pleasurable to listen to at the same time. Tchakovsky never really did anything revolutionary. Sure, he has nice pieces, but that isn't enough.

Agreed. Stravinsky's various stylistic approaches and influence were very important and representative of some of the best changes in music during his own time. If he does get publicly overrated, which probably just means that a lot of wet-behind-the-ears students are nuts about The Rite of Spring, that's an overrating that's pretty easy to brush aside. Almost anyone you could talk to about Stravinsky probably has little to no clue of most of his later music. Even so, Stravinsky's representation in concert halls is scant at best, especially compared to someone like Tchaikovsky.

For the same reason, Debussy couldn't be called overrated based on the fact that far too many students and teachers go crazy over Clair de Lune.

[russda_man]

discuss

Debussy, Ravel, Messiaen, Britten. These are either unlistenable, or completely boring.

[chopin1993]

Schönberg, Bartók, Messiaen and Strauss. 

Personally I just don't like them, I can't help it.

[roseli]

I vote in Bach.

[gyzzzmo]

not overplayed, but overrated: Alkan

[ahinton]

not overplayed, but overrated: Alkan

Whilst the thread title merely encourages members to name names, the exercise would be more meaningful if responses avoid merely naming composers whose work the poster happens to dislike and provide detail in support of their contention that this, that or the other composer is either overplayed or overrated or both.

Alkan's music is far more widely played and recorded than was the case a few decades ago - a fact worth bearing in mind even if it is not actually "overplayed" as such; it might be worth considering why this is so.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Judging by that racket i endured on the Proms last night, I would be inclined to nominate Shostakovich.

Thal

[gyzzzmo]

Whilst the thread title merely encourages members to name names, the exercise would be more meaningful if responses avoid merely naming composer whose work the poster happens to dislike and provide detail in support of their contention that this, that or the other composer is either overplayed or overrated or both.

Alkan's music is far more widely played and recorded than was the case a few decades ago - a fact worth bearing in mind even if it is not actually "overplayed" as such; it might be worth considering why this is so.

Best,

Alistair

I dont feel much like debating subjective opinions. I find Alkan boring, simplistic and too technical. Others may find differently, but does that really matter? I dont have to convince anybody of my opinion do i

Gyzzzmo

[ahinton]

Judging by that racket i endured on the Proms last night, I would be inclined to nominate Shostakovich.

Which particular "racket" on last night's Prom was that?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

I dont feel much like debating subjective opinions.

Such opinions themselves are not in any case amenable to debate per se, although it is possible to debate their relevance and rôle as distinct from critical judgement.

I find Alkan boring, simplistic and too technical.

All of it? - or at least all that you've heard? Out of interest, what Alkan works have you heard? And have you made due allowances for the possibility that in at least some cases your personal opinion might have been influenced by performances that may be "boring, simplistic and too technical"?

Others may find differently

Oh, they do, gyzzzmo - they do! Many others, at that!

does that really matter?

It almost certainly matters to those others!

I dont have to convince anybody of my opinion do i

No.

The point that I was seeking to make, however, was the difference between personal opinion and pragmatic critical judgement, of which the latter is surely of greater importance than the former in any realistic assessment of what works might be deemed to be "overplayed" and which composers "overrated".

Best,

Alistair

[gyzzzmo]

And have you made due allowances for the possibility that in at least some cases your personal opinion might have been influenced by performances that may be "boring, simplistic and too technical"?

I think that you should seek an alternate job as a rocketscientist since you somehow managed to find out that 'boring, simplistic and too technical' is actually my personal opinion 'in least some cases'.

And yes i heard quite alot of Alkan's work else i wouldnt have stated that opinion (oh my god, i just gave away that it was just my opinion!)

[liordavid]

Haydn. All he ever did was spit out music

[argerichfan]

Haydn. All he ever did was spit out music

Anyone who could 'spit' out the Lord Nelson Mass is an okay chap in my book. 

[ahinton]

I think that you should seek an alternate job as a rocketscientist since you somehow managed to find out that 'boring, simplistic and too technical' is actually my personal opinion 'in least some cases'.

I do not need a job in addition to my current activities, thanks, but in any case it does not take a rocket scientist (what a wearisome cliché that one is - and a gross insult to real rocket scientists, I imagine!) to figure out that negative impressions of certain music might in some instances arise as a consequence of listening to inadequate performances of it.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Negative impressions of certain music might in some instances arise as a consequence of listening to inadequate performances of it.

Possibly and possibly not, but one could spend a lot of time listening to various performances of works one does not like.

Horrific exercise.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Which particular "racket" on last night's Prom was that?

I think it was the 5th racket.

Thal

[argerichfan]

I think it was the 5th racket.

That's a racket?  Maybe the 12th, but the 5th?   

[mikey6]

I think it was the 5th racket.

Thal

I did think Brahms was the only who produced rackets!  BRAHMS!  BRAHMS 3RD RACKET! 

[argerichfan]

I did think Brahms was the only who produced rackets!  BRAHMS!  BRAHMS 3RD RACKET! 

Assuming you do not mean the benevolent 3rd symphony (and I hope not the 3rd piano trio), then it must be his 3rd piano sonata?

Oh the perfidy.  Listen to the slow movement.  If it is miles removed from the hot house of Tristan, Brahms certainly created an atmosphere of intense love interest.  Have you ever been in love?   

 

[ahinton]

Possibly and possibly not, but one could spend a lot of time listening to various performances of works one does not like.

Horrific exercise.

One could indeed; the point that I was making, however, is that one might on occasion derive a negative first impression of a piece as a direct consequence of the inadequacy of the performance getting in the way of that piece. Some composers' music might appear to be rather better protected against such vagaries than others' (although why this might seem to be the case would require vast amounts of research and a substantial book to reveal), but the risk is nevertheless a very real one in many cases (and, as a composer myself, I ought to know!). I recall, for example, listening for the first time years ago to one of Medtner's piano sonatas and wondering whether the fact that it sounded quite boring was down to the performance or the music or both, but at least the seeds of doubt were sown rather than my coming to the immediate conclusion that it must be the fault of the music alone (Medtner strikes me as one of the composers who can at times withstand poor performances rather better than some others); as it turned out, it was indeed the performance that had done it for me. I won't name the errant pianist, but listening to the same work played by Hamish Milne not long afterwards gave an entirely different and vastly more favourable impression of it. I discussed this with Sorabji a few days after hearing the first of those performances; I was not intending to raise the issue, but he did, asking me if I'd happened to hear it. I admitted that I had and that I'd not thought very well of it. He said that he'd heard it but could immediately recognise it as an inadequate interpretation of a fine work with which he was already familiar, having long since heard it played by Moiseiwitsch and by the composer himself. He added that some people hearing the other player's performance as their first experience of it would immediately have blamed the composer and had done with it.

In answer to your point, however, the likelihood of hearing a whole succession of bad performances from different performers as one's first experiences of any work would surely be pretty small.

Best,

Alistair

[rgh55]

Beethoven.

Seriously, I don't see why he's so effin great anyway. Plus EVERYONE plays Beethoven even if it's that god-fosaken piece of crap Fur Elise.

I hate beethoven with a passion, bach isn't great either though, but most people feel that way, so very few in my area play him for enjoyment (although most of his fugues are delightful)

yes, what have you been smoking?

[thalbergmad]

Assuming you do not mean the benevolent 3rd symphony 

He was referring to a rather amusing scene in Fawlty Towers.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

I won't name the errant pianist

If it was bad Medtner, the chances are it was Madge.

Thal

[argerichfan]

He was referring to a rather amusing scene in Fawlty Towers.

I don't remember, it's been a while.  What scene was that? 

[ahinton]

If it was bad Medtner, the chances are it was Madge.

The chances might have been, but in fact it wasn't; different nationality and different sex.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I don't remember, it's been a while.  What scene was that? 

A Touch of Class

[Classical music is playing in the background. Basil is putting up a picture. Sybil walks in.]
Sybil: Don't forget the menu.
Basil: I beg your pardon?
Sybil: Don't forget the menu.
Basil: I thought you said you want— Right! I'll do the menu!
[puts down the picture, walks over to a typewriter and sits down.]
Sybil: You could have had them both done by now if you hadn't spent the whole morning skulking in there listening to that racket.
Basil: Racket? That's Brahms! Brahms' Third Racket!

[darkstar87]

overplayed: bach, beethoven, chopin , liszt, rachmaninoff

overrated: scriabin

[ahinton]

A Touch of Class

[Classical music is playing in the background. Basil is putting up a picture. Sybil walks in.]
Sybil: Don't forget the menu.
Basil: I beg your pardon?
Sybil: Don't forget the menu.
Basil: I thought you said you want— Right! I'll do the menu!
[puts down the picture, walks over to a typewriter and sits down.]
Sybil: You could have had them both done by now if you hadn't spent the whole morning skulking in there listening to that racket.
Basil: Racket? That's Brahms! Brahms' Third Racket!

Ah! - momeries are made of this! Thanks for posting this, Thal! The nearest equivalent to this that I can think of right now is one of the episodes of The Good Life in which Richard Briers and his screen wife Felicity Kendal are (if memory serves me correctly) about to be evicted from their home and, at one point as all the goods and chattels are being removed therefrom, I seem to recall the former uttering the line "that's all my Shostakovich symphonies!" which I found quite curious at the time, given that the names Mozart, Beethoven or even Brahms might have far more readily registered with a BBC1 audience...

Best,

Alistair

[thinkgreenlovepiano]

I agree definitely that Grieg is underrated. I did a school project on Grieg, my friends teased that no one's heard of him. But his music is amazing!

Chopin is probably the most overplayed in my opinion...

As for overrated, my first instinct is to say Chopin-- but I don't know how to explain why. Because I love Chopin's music. He was definitely a genius and he was the first composer I learned about as a kid. After reading about him I listened to his music and begged my parents for piano lessons. =)  I also enjoy playing Chopin. The thing is, there are other composers I like who have music I like just as much as Chopin, yet they aren't as popular or highly rated. So in a "percentile" sense he is overrated.
If overrated= bad/ not that great, then no. Chopin is awesome!

[ask_why]

Thanks to Fur Elise and the 1st movement of Moonlight Sonata Beethoven is probably the most overplayed, but definitely not overrated.

I can't judge the composers well enough to say who's overrated, but I can tell you a REALLY overrated player:  Glenn Gould.  I hate everything about him -- from his interpretations to his movements and facial expressions -- and how can he reject Liszt and Chopin while still playing plenty of Beethoven?   

[wildejagd]

IMO, Liszt isn't overplayed cuz barely anybody can play his most difficult pieces.

Chopin-so overplayed, probably overrated cuz his music is really easy to listen to. It doesn't take a genius to like Chopin. :T

[nearenough]

There's a certain class of "cute" French composers such as Satie and Poulenc which are tiresome after listening to them once.

Overrated and overpromoted by a few enthusiasts is the completely pretentious and fake note-writer (not even a composer) Sorabji. John Ogdon was lucky enough to have been able to sight read him just once.

Terry Riley's "In C" stands as an equally horrible parody of note-non-spinning.

Also the noisy Phillip Glass and another of his ilk which offers relentless iterations of the most annoying chords you can imagine.

Stravinsky is like eating sour pickles and stale bread crusts.

Medtner is a pale, anemic Rachmaninoff imitator. Horowitz often talked about playing his material but he rightly never bothered to record any of it except a "Fairy Tale."

John Field's Nocturnes are boring.

Clementi wrote a few snappy things but is rightly largely forgotten.

As to Schumann, you must be a very senstitive and sympathetic musician to grasp his wonderfully crafted, sentimental and homey meldies and structures.

Chopin detractors probably suffer from overexposure. I play at lot of his stuff, but you just run out of interest after a while.

Shostakovitch on the piano is simply awful. I always get the impression he tries too hard to be clever and "wrong-notey." Funny funny, not ha-ha.

Anyone mention Purcell and others of that era?

How about practically any opera? Oh, this is for piano. OK.

[nearenough]

Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Krenek. Random notes I can invent and play at any time. [Knocks head for not mentioning them before].

[ahinton]

Overrated and overpromoted by a few enthusiasts is the completely pretentious and fake note-writer (not even a composer) Sorabji. John Ogdon was lucky enough to have been able to sight read him just once.

Whatever your opinion of the only one of Sorabji's works that Ogdon performed, your assertion doesn't stand up to scrutiny. You are, of course, referring to Opus Clavicembalisticum, a published score of which was given to him around 1956 by Peter Maxwell Davies with the hope that he (Ogdon) would prepare and perform it since, in Davies' estimation, no one else was capable of doing this. At that time, Davies's interest in the piece prompted him to orchestrate its first two movements but sadly he appears not to recall to whom he gave this work and I've never been able to trace its whereabouts. Ogdon gave a private reaading of it in 1959 and always kept a score of it by him in the hope that he would one day record and/or perform it. Before he gave the work its first complete performance in England in 1988 just three months before the composer's death, he had recorded it; that recording was released in 1989, just three months before Ogdon's own death and it is still available today. The suggestion that Ogdon "sight read him just once" is therefore as fatuous as it is unfounded.

There are rather more than just "a few enthusiasts" for Sorabji around these days; there have been more than 35 recordings of his music by various artists as well as hundreds of performances and broadcasts in many countries, much of which have only been made possible by means of the sterling work done by a number of highly gifted and committed editors who continue to produce typeset edition sof the composer's scores. The most recent recording is our around now and is the third CD in Fredrik Ullén's series in which he is recording the complete 100 Transcendental Studies; perhaps you should try this!

...a certain class of "cute" French composers such as Satie and Poulenc...

...Terry Riley's "In C"...an equally horrible parody of note-non-spinning.

...the noisy Phillip Glass and another of his ilk...

...Stravinsky...

...Medtner...a pale, anemic Rachmaninoff imitator...

...John Field's Nocturnes are boring...

...Clementi wrote a few snappy things but is rightly largely forgotten...

...Schumann...

...Chopin...I play at lot of his stuff, but you just run out of interest after a while.

...Shostakovitch on the piano is simply awful...

...Anyone mention Purcell and others of that era?...

...How about practically any opera?...

There's not much left for you to like, is there?! How sad for you! Riley and Glass don't do it for me either, but whilst I admit to the heresy of being able also to live without most of Stravinsky, there are a handful of pieces by him that are utterly indispensible. Medtner never "imitated" anyone, let alone Rakhmaninov, as Rakhmaninov himself would have been the first to agree. Clementi's now quite extensive discography doesn't suggest a "largely forgotten" composer to me. If "you" run out of interest in Chopin after playing his music for a while, that's your problem and not a value judgement of Chopin. Shostakovich's piano writing may not all be either the composer at his best or as important as that of other Russian composers, but he was a considerable pianist himself (who had initially contemplated a career as a pianist until the international success of his first symphony took over), so he knew what he was doing when writing for the piano.

Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Krenek. Random notes I can invent and play at any time.

If Schönberg's D minor quartet or E major chamber symphony comprise "random notes" that anyone can invent and play at will, then Christ was a Muslim.

[Knocks head for not mentioning them before]

Please don't knock your head in case any more spleen falls out (I know that this sounds like a physical impossibility for most of us, but you seem to manage it OK!)...

Best,

Alistair

[gep]

Stating personal tastes and preference (i.e. personal likes and dislikes) as hard absolutes of artistic value is the way of the critic, not the real music lover...

gep