Somebody convince me to go practise

[m1469]

allthumbs --

Well, hmmmm... for some reason your post kind of hurt me  .  Nothing you intentionally did, but, it's just that some of the things you said were just very close to "home" for me and that, for some reason, has been really hard for me to swallow.

I will state that I have always been a very passionate person.  Even when I was a child.  If I were to wish anything, it is that I wish I knew some things better back then -- like how to live beyond my head and beyond my closed-off self -- and had more guidence back then, but that is so easy to say from here -- and what's the point anyway ?  There is just absolutely no point in wishing that, but, for some reason I feel really angry all over again  -- and I thought I was 'over' it.  I think I am, but, I guess sometimes I still have a hard time with it all.

Unfortunately I believe I was a very tough 'kid' to deal with, because I never saw myself as a kid  :-.  I just "woke up" one day and I was not a kid to myself anymore (and I actually remember the precise moment, where I was in the house, all this stuff) -- I was a person, just like the rest of the poeple I knew, and that was really difficult for the adults in my life to handle because I was really young still.  Everything before that was just about being in my own world ... as though I had never uttered a word or touched anything before that.  I was just coping and surviving.

Anyway.  argh.

You are very kind to post in such a thoughtful post, and of course I am so happy to hear that you have been inspired to practice .  Thanks so much.

[opus10no2]

When did you start to play? Why did you need more guidance?

Being self taught, and not finishing my first piece 'til the week before my 20th birthday, I can understand what you feel to a degree.
In my situation I don't have support , per se, but m family haslet me done what I want to do, and I am very grateful for this freedom.

I don't regret starting late, and if I achieve things, it has the novelty impressive value of a child prodigy, a late starting virtuoso is rarer, I think. 

Be at peace with the unchangable, and if any feelings are unavoidable, let them fuel the conquest ahead of you, not hinder it.

[m1469]

When did you start to play? Why did you need more guidance?

I was playing from my earliest memories.  My mom was my first teacher (and didn't take it as that, but more like she just showed me what she knew for fun -- and I swallowed it up as fast as I could).  But, she mainly improvised and taught me things by rote, showing me what little she knew about the scores.  Way back then, I could actually read more naturally than I can now, because I was somehow more innocent and all I saw were shapes and it meant something to me.  I can actually recall that sense of it.  But then, we moved and the piano actually got packed away for a year or more.  And, then we sent it to live with relatives for awhile until we were in a stable situation.  To be honest, that was a horrible, horrible year.

Anyway, my mom did what she could and my household was *extremely* artistic in an original and creative sense -- but we certainly didn't have a lot of money.  We are all musical and we are all artists, and we are all athletes.  It runs on both sides of my family.

Anyway, I started formal lessons with a woman from the public when I was 12.  She just couldn't see me, I felt like even then.  And, by that time, I had already developed my own sense of self at the instrument which seemed to have little place in what I was learning in formal lessons.  I will just say that, as a piano teacher myself, I can say I would have treated a student like me *VERY* differently than how I was treated.  But, I think she did the best she could.  Anyway, at one point --when I was about 15-- my life came to a crisis and people found out that I was suicidal  (at least telling them that was the easiest way to "explain" the strange state of mind I was in and the cuts on my wrists), and suddenly I was being forced to choose between activities in my life.  I chose to end piano lessons at that time, deciding that I would start them again when I reached Uni -- which is exactly what I did.

As far as guidence goes, I just mainly felt very misunderstood throughout my life.  Especially in those days.  I think my folks were scared of me ... LOL ... and in some sense, I actually don't blame them.  Part of the reason I don't have kids myself (and don't know if I want them) is because I am halfway concerned they will be like me.  I just feel like, in some sense, I have *always* been on my own in many, many ways.  It wasn't until I found my Uni piano teacher and some other people there that I suddenly felt remotely like a human being.

wow, I guess I need to cut myself off now.  Anyway, your closing statement is very pertinent, and I thank you for your thoughts.

Cheers !
m1469

 

[rach n bach]

STOP TYPING AND GO PRAX!!!!


=P

[m1469]

STOP TYPING AND GO PRAX!!!!


=P

Okay 

[m]

STOP TYPING AND GO PRAX!!!!

Sometimes it is more important to type rather than practice...

[opus10no2]

people found out that I was suicidal  (at least telling them that was the easiest way to "explain" the strange state of mind I was in and the cuts on my wrists),

I appreciate the candour of your post, and I too was 'suicidal' at almost exactly that age.
Though I don't think suicidal feelings and self-harm are the same when you let others know about it, it's more of a cry for attention and help.
I did some terrible things around that age also, things that terrify me, knowing that I was capable of that.

I understand you write this for catharsis and understanding, but you consistently 'delight' ( ) me with your courage to reveal this way.

[m1469]

I appreciate the candour of your post, and I too was 'suicidal' at almost exactly that age.
Though I don't think suicidal feelings and self-harm are the same when you let others know about it, it's more of a cry for attention and help.

hmmm... well, what do I say ?  I am not going to try to prove something to you and I am certianly not going to try to explain things.  When people tried to help me, I further withdrew.  Anyway, today now I am a different person.  And, I don't just mean these days, I mean literally, today.  Yesterday all that stuff was very close, today all that stuff is far -- that's how it is.  Yesterday I was open, today I am closed.  Yesterday I was soft, today I am not.


Cheers,
m1469

[opus10no2]

hmmm... well, what do I say ?  I am not going to try to prove something to you and I am certianly not going to try to 'explain' things.  When people tried to help me, I further withdrew.  Anyway, today now I am a different person.  And, I don't just mean these days, I mean liteally, today.  Yesterday all that stuff was very close, today all that stuff is far -- that's how it is.  Yesterday I was open, today I am closed.  Yesterday I was soft, today I am not.


Cheers,
m1469

I only try my best to understand because I like you so much and I don't like people I like to feel bad, That and because I'm always genuinely very intrigued by you

[m]

As Bugsy said:

"Isn't she magnificient!!!" 

[m1469]

Okay, I apologize.  Maybe that was mean.  I guess I just feel a little shy about having written this stuff, and, then even about my recent improv -- that somehow was important to me to have made.  It's just weird for me to open up sometimes, and, sometimes I don't know how to be when people actually respond to me opening up.  I have gone back through a lot of posts before and erased what I wrote because I decided then that I could not handle being so see-through.  But, this time I will not erase anything even if I feel a little uncomfortable.

Everything that I put down in here is stuff that I want to not feel so personally attached to anymore.  And, at the same time, it's stuff that somehow directs (at least partially) a lot of the things I do as a person and as a musician.  And, I am worried that people will judge me, too -- for the things themselves and for writing them. 

And then, all of these feelings that I think about with regard to showing myself here, are things that I have to somehow deal with in performing.  So, at the risk of looking like an idiot here, if I can learn how to cope with bearing myself to others, it seems worth the lesson toward my performing.  I want to be a better performer. 

Well, I feel slightly confused  .  And, pressed for time  .  Sorry if I was mean, and perhaps I will not close myself off afterall -- at least not all the way like I wanted to do (it's my goal lately, to not close myself off even when I am uncomfortable)  .

NOW -- I go practicing 

[opus10no2]

I feel uncomfortable with things I've said too. They're directed to you, and I don't mean for everyone to see, but I might leave them too, same reasons as you.

If there is anything you just want to say to me without others seeing, you can do that also, not everything has to be completely public.

You never run the risk of looking like an idiot to me(and anyone else), you know what I think 

[m1469]

If there is anything you just want to say to me without others seeing, you can do that also, not everything has to be completely public.

Yes, I know 

[0range]

...my poor kids had to cope this week... ...see what my husband has to deal with every morning...

Kids? Husband? I don't buy it, young lady, if you're a day over 20 I'm a monkey's uncle. =)

On a more relevant note, I've always found that sitting and thinking about practicing is a far greater torture than any actual practice so this is what I do whenever I need to practice but I just can't muster up the courage.

[pianowolfi]

Kids? Husband?

She means her students I think.

[m1469]

Kids? Husband? I don't buy it, young lady, if you're a day over 20 I'm a monkey's uncle. =)

Oh, well, I meant my students (yes, I see you explained this, thanks Wolfi ).  They are my kids -- even the adults, too ... hee hee ; I am mother bear to them   (secret and invisible fox smile ... hee hee). I definitely do not have the kind of children in my life that live with me day in and day out    Well, as far as that other stuff goes, I actually can't tell if you are joking or not, but, I will take it even if you are funnin' me, because, well, sometimes I just need it  

On a more relevant note, I've always found that sitting and thinking about practicing is a far greater torture than any actual practice so this is what I do whenever I need to practice but I just can't muster up the courage.

Yeah, actually, you are right.  It is a huge torture just thinking about practicing without actually doing it, but I will admit that sometimes, for whatever reason, it takes a large courage for me to sit at the piano and practice.  Actually, I know exactly why that it is, but, I am sure that to most people it would seem ludicrous (hears Ted's voice in head) ! But, what can I say ?

[opus10no2]

Why just think when one can think *and* do at the same time?

Engage in physical activity and allow your mind to wander.

[m1469]

Yes, and now I get off this place and go to piano ... but, wait, I am eating my morning oatmeal ... I can stay for a moment longer 

*browses around, thinks about going back to practicing, munches some yummy oatmeals*

[rc]

Practice is good, but so is oatmeal...

Can't you practice, think about practice and eat oatmeal all at once?

C'MON MAYLA WHAT'S WITH THE SLACKING!

[0range]

Oh, well, I meant my students (yes, I see you explained this, thanks Wolfi ).  They are my kids -- even the adults, too ... hee hee ; I am mother bear to them  (secret and invisible fox smile ... hee hee). I definitely do not have the kind of children in my life that live with me day in and day out    Well, as far as that other stuff goes, I actually can't tell if you are joking or not, but, I will take it even if you are funnin' me, because, well, sometimes I just need it 

Ahh! Haha, my misunderstanding. Funnin' you? You're too humble.  B)

Yeah, actually, you are right.  It is a huge torture just thinking about practicing without actually doing it, but I will admit that sometimes, for whatever reason, it takes a large courage for me to sit at the piano and practice.  Actually, I know exactly why that it is, but, I am sure that to most people it would seem ludicrous (hears Ted's voice in head) ! But, what can I say ?

I ran into an interesting quote from the Yoga master Iyengar. It's slightly applicable, I think...

"When I practice, I am a philosopher,
 When I teach, I am a scientist,
 When I demonstrate, I am an artist."

Sometimes the philosopher tells us that, yes, this too shall pass.

I think, though, that when we practice we need to be a little of all three. The scientist is there to be a detached observer, tell us how little our feelings actually matter, and to just get on with it, and the artist to make sure what we're practicing is art.

Anyway, that's enough out of me for one day.

Tchau.

[m1469]

I ran into an interesting quote from the Yoga master Iyengar. It's slightly applicable, I think...

"When I practice, I am a philosopher,
 When I teach, I am a scientist,
 When I demonstrate, I am an artist."

Sometimes the philosopher tells us that, yes, this too shall pass.

I think, though, that when we practice we need to be a little of all three. The scientist is there to be a detached observer, tell us how little our feelings actually matter, and to just get on with it, and the artist to make sure what we're practicing is art.

Anyway, that's enough out of me for one day.

Tchau.

Actually, this is quite great.  Thanks for posting this, it's very encouraging and directing for me .

[opus10no2]

'tis true, but there are things that can be done in practice which don't involve thinking.

I'm curious what exactly it is you do in practice?

Mine is a mix between structure and non-structure, alternatingly demanding and freeing, intense and relaxing.

And of course there are breaks, which are essential, but how do you take your mind off, so quickly and easily, what you have been intensely working on...?

[0range]

Actually, this is quite great.  Thanks for posting this, it's very encouraging and directing for me .

Glad I could be of some help. Happy practicing! 

[danny elfboy]

On a more relevant note, I've always found that sitting and thinking about practicing is a far greater torture than any actual practice so this is what I do whenever I need to practice but I just can't muster up the courage.

Sitting and thinking about anything is a far greater torture than any actual activity or task that eventually appear not to be such a torture at all. I call it projection but rumination too.
Interesting enough ruminating is the most important factor in depression as it causes a chain reaction where more deep sleep is required to solve issues we've ruminated about and the time production of serotonin gets shorter.

[danny elfboy]

If you don't feel like practicing maybe you don't beed to practice.
I, as many teachers and pianists, believe that not only is useful to practice everyday compared to having one, two or more days a week off-practice but also dangerous.

Those rest days allows your brain to get the time and relaxed state to assimilate and process the data you've collected during your previoud days practice sessions.
It provides such an advance in learning that can't really be obtained by practicing 7 days a week.

But if you ignore the brain/body signals that you don't have to practice (lack of desire) and you'll practice anyway the next day the brain/body will demand two off days instead, if you practice anyway and keep ignoring those signals the next day the brain/body will demand four days off practice. It's exponential, the brain/body recovery time increases exponentially as they need to come back to the state they were when they asked you to stop. It's the same principle as to why it's better to prevent something to get broken than to fix it.

By the way: I agree that your inner beauty and huge sensitivity is also expressed physically. You look like angels are supposed to look 

[opus10no2]

Danny, join teh fan club 

[m1469]

I'm curious what exactly it is you do in practice?

Well, it depends on what I have going on or where I am at in my life altogether -- to some extent.  For example, I go through times of being extremely strict and I use a timer for each session.  I try to get a certain thing done in each session and I practice certain pieces and so on.  During this kind of time, I don't really "play" very much and I will admit, I get burnt out after weeks of this.  Right now, I am still trying to figure out how to better balance that stuff out.  So, it tends to take larger trends -- my breaks and times of play balanced out with just plain "work" are more in terms of weeks/months/years -- instead of a little mix of each on a given day.  Sometimes I absolutely cannot stand schedules, sometimes it's all that keeps me together.  

Right now, I have been somewhere in the middle I suppose -- I generally aim at certain things, but I am a little more loose in my approach (for example, when I am completely scheduled, if I don't start the timer right on the exact second of a new hour or on the half hour, I get stressed out (adding something completely un-useful (as far as I experience it) to the mix).  Lately, I let myself start even at odd times like 12 after and I don't use a timer  ).

And of course there are breaks, which are essential, but how do you take your mind off, so quickly and easily, what you have been intensely working on...?

Yeah, it actually never really leaves me altogether, of course.

Sitting and thinking about anything is a far greater torture than any actual activity or task that eventually appear not to be such a torture at all. I call it projection but rumination too.
Interesting enough ruminating is the most important factor in depression as it causes a chain reaction where more deep sleep is required to solve issues we've ruminated about and the time production of serotonin gets shorter.

This is really interesting to me.  Thanks for posting this.

The only problem with going by how I 'feel' about stuff, is that a lot of times I am either ALL OVER THE MAP -- and I feel a bunch of things at once, and/or I actually have no idea what I really want and my head really needs to step in for me.  My day off can easily turn into a month or two off -- and I actually get extremely depressed if I let this happen (esp during the winter).   I do 'get' what you are saying though, and I think if I were a little more 'in tune' the day off wouldn't actually lead to months off.  Sundays are usually a day off of my regime -- however I still do other music work and so sometimes I don't end up feeling like I got a day off -- so perhaps I need to make some more adjustments.

btw -- thank you for your very kind comments. 


Overall, between this thread and another one I started in the performance section of the forum, I have realized something kind of important for me regarding my piano playing in performance and practice.

I am often intimidated to practice because I sometimes feel such a huge responsibility (largely self-imposed, I suppose, according to my own perception of the world of classical music).  Sometimes my view is so big that it overwhelms me and I don't know where to start; or else I just have insecurity issues (which I am trying to get sorted out).  

As I have been shifting a bit in mentality over the past week (or however long), and thinking more in terms of using my own musical imagination (at least A LOT MORE), and have been realizing that I can actually serve the music and the composer and the audience best by bringing all of that (all of myself) to my concept of playing (and everything that my playing entails), I am feeling a bit more freedom in my approach.  My desire to go to the piano is just different suddenly -- at least for now -- and that has been encouraging.

Anyway, off to prax  

Thanks so much !
m1469

[opus10no2]

I know you've probably discussed this before, but I;m aware they may change with time, so what, right now, are your goals?

Firstly, are they achievable? realistic? are they *worth* the time?

Speaking for myself, I only intend part of what I do to be as a recreator, and I prioritise that now for certain reasons, but there will come a point when I become more relaxed with repertoire and start to concentrate on my own creations.

There is a difference between the time it takes to learn repertoire and maintain/expand technique.

Technique doesn't actually take that much time each day to keep up, but repertoire is the main time consumer.

When setting goals, I have to consider if it's worth the time, possible, and worth prioritising in light of the bigger picture.

[m1469]

I know you've probably discussed this before, but I;m aware they may change with time, so what, right now, are your goals?

Well, right now my goals are indeed changing to some extent, simply because they are coming a little more into focus lately.  My next concert (October) is a big goal for me in and of itself -- it will be my first full concert as my own artist, not as a student anymore (although a good friend of mine did warn me against always thinking in terms of "firsts" ... I suppose there will be loads of firsts in all of our lives and I just need to realize that element will often be a part of my endeavors (and actually, what better way to live ?)) -- and only my second full concert ever.  There are also three more venues where I could book, if I get the nerves to do it -- so, I would like to get the nerves to do those but I am not sure when that will come.  I can only think of the one right now, and I have some specific things I want to "accomplish" in that one.

Other than that, I have repertoire goals and very broad musical goals.  I will admit that I would like to be able to improvise and compose at a very high level -- what that means to me is to be able to accurately represent, through sound, my perception of life -- and, I would like to speak directly to the hearts of the individual in whatever musical endeavor I choose.  My general repertoire goals are multi-purposed :

1.   I have a genuine interest in exploring the minds of some of the "greatest" musical thinkers that have come before me, and whom are all around me.  Right now, I feel I have a "view" of something in particular -- it's the abyss, as I call it -- and, I suspect that many artist view this whether they call it that or not, and even if they are not aware of it in so many terms.  I am very interested to see how people like Rachmaninov, Shostakovich, Mozart, Schumann, Beethoven, Bach (although he is a little different to me, somehow), just to name a few, dealt with "this" view.

2.  Through that study, I would like to learn a much broader musical vocabularly.  I feel very, very limited in sheer knowledge -- and, I am not even sure how to retain it in a way that makes sense for me.  It seems to vary.  But, I want to study other people's works partly in order to gain a little perspective and knowledge; Bach is an example to me in this.  He studied and simulated other people's works and styles, and I assume that as his own vocabulary (kowledge) expanded, his own sense of what he could share was a natural step in this.

I expect to study very furiously what I can of others, and that natural steps in finding my own musical voice will come from this (believe me, I am *always* on the lookout for this to be happening  ).  I have things I want to say, I suppose.  I will of course keep taking steps as I go, but, I am by far not ready to separate myself from all those who came before me.

Also, I am very interested in communicating with people.  Despite my anti-social type tendencies at times, I acutally have a huge love for humanity that makes me very much want to communicate with them.  I think music is a very interesting way to do this.  So, I would like to perform -- and, for now, it needs to be laregly other people's works, and I love other people's works so that is fine.
 

Firstly, are they achievable? realistic? are they *worth* the time?

Yes, I think so to all of these.   

[opus10no2]

Thank you 

Interesting, but there are a few things I, and others may not understand.

First of all, I wonder *why* this pursuit is important to you? I know your love for music is a part of it, and other things, but I have a feeling it is not the whole story. Do you think it comes from a deep inner need to be accepted, though you may not know it yourself, all your efforts may manifest from deeply rooted social desires.
I really have the belief that those with a happy and completely satisfactory social upbringing have no understanding of the hunger to be great.
I think this is because those who aren't a success by virtue of their person have to find a place for themselves by being admired for the qualities they have accomplished.

I think I'm just projecting myself here, but there might be something to think about because  sometimes I find myself mirrored in you.

The other things are the 'abyss' you mention, which I'm not sure I understand, and the use of the word 'knowledge'.

Do you mean knowledge in the traditional sense? and if so, I , personally, do not see the value in this pursuit, simply because I think music should be completely appreciable without any intervention of 'thought' .

Something I do find value in, however, is the expansion of experience listening to(and playing) much more new music brings.

[m1469]

hmmm... why is this pursuit important to me ?  You know, my person has a difficult time pondering a life where nobody else is a part of it, and in pondering a life where I don't feel love.  Well, okay, I know what that feels like whether it was ever true or not, it's how I felt.  Sometimes I am actually quite surprised and unable to accept that people really love me -- and sometimes I am quite unable to let myself love others.  Now, this is personal, but there is a point.  The point is that, whether or not I love people and people love me, and I feel like I am being fulfilled in that way, I would still pursue this.  I actually know that for a fact.  I like life in general a whole lot better when I feel love, I have realized at this point in my life (and, btw, I have had to work REALLY hard just even to get to where I am at with relationships -- wherever that is).

I know that's the way it is because I knew myself and my feelings about all of this when I was very young (maybe about 7 years old) -- before anything else had touched me with regard to this yet.  I was still very innocent and my love for the piano was just what it was.  And, I decided that I wanted to learn everything there is to know about it; I actually became my own teacher in quite a conscious way.  I knew of people who became blind, for example, and decided that I wanted to learn how to play with my eyes closed just in case I ever became blind, and so I would actually make a point of sitting down as often as I could and consciously trained myself with various things without looking.  I often consciously thought of myself as "in training" with something later in mind (nothing beyond just knowing the instrument really, but, it had to do with the future, even then).

I am telling about this because this decision has stuck with me over the years.  And, I have honestly tried to go against it time after time -- but it is burned into me.  I can't erase it; it's just part of who I am.  So, sometimes I have felt as though I were kicked to the curb by some people whom I have considered pretty important in my piano life, and you know what gets me back up ?  It's that same little girl who decided when she was 7 that she was going to learn everything there is to know about piano -- she was pretty serious about life, even back then.  It always has come down to -- okay, so this person thinks this about me ... so what ?  What has that go to do with me ?  It doesn't mean I haven't gotten stopped in my tracks, deflated and depressed over what people do and say to me. 

My feelings about piano and music really have nothing to do with "this world" -- and that is where my problem has been.  I want to be an integrated person.  I have wanted to find a place in this world.  But, my hunger regarding music does not spring from other people and their opinions about me.  The piano summoned me ... hee hee, and it continues to do this throughout my life.  When I catch some glimpse of a thing that I cannot seem to explain (and really would rather not explain in words, at this point), I feel connected to life and my piano-self finds the place it needs.

With people like my Uni teacher and Bernhard, for example, I have wanted to somehow become like a vampire and bite them and suck all of their musical experiences out of them (sorry if it is scary ... hee hee).  It's in their blood, so-to-speak, and, it's in my blood, too, and I just can't ever seem to get enough of what I feel like I *thrive* on with it.    When I first met my Uni teacher and saw what I see in him, I wanted to just live in his office for years in a row -- I didn't want to miss a thing; I just wanted to absorb him ... hee hee.  And, this went beyond the person, though obviously the person is involved when we see it in human terms.  I just felt connected to life in a way that I had been hungering for for years, whether my teacher himself liked me and accepted me or not (though obviously that appears to play a role).

I don't feel like a failure as a person, I feel like my musician and particularly my pianist ARE my person.

So, why is this pursuit important to me ?  Well, I can't help it.  I have fought and fought with myself over it, but it hasn't gone away.  I loved my University experience because I finally just surrendered -- and I surrendered because I found a place for myself, in all ways, to just be (and in many respects, I had to claw my way there, too).  And now, since University, I am working to make my own place -- because, I have realized, perhaps, that nobody else will make it for me.  Do you suppose that what I have been clawing through has been a pretty path of open doors, love and acceptance ?  LOL .... h*ll NO.  There is some of that in there, however, too.  But, it just can't depend on that.

I have a beautiful and inspiring piano (for me) sitting in my living room because I clawed my way to it sitting there.  I have a studio full of students that I adore, because I have clawed and clawed my way to it.

If what I were seeking were mere fame and the things that many humans call "love" and "acceptance,"  I suppose I would have chosen something much easier ... LOL.  A couple of things come to mind, actually.  But, those just aren't true to me.  So, yes, I do appreciate love and acceptance (at least to the best I can allow that for myself at this point), but I simply cannot have that be all that holds me up in life.

Okay.  Explaining the abyss... if that is even possible, I suppose it would not be done with words.  I have a specific painting in my mind's eye, which I am not sure if it is "mine" or whether it's something that I have actually seen -- but it is Picasso-esque, I suppose.  And, I think, to me, Picasso seems to often portray what I see right now, as a perception viewing humanity and also seeing the abyss, simultaneously.

I am exhausted ... LOL ... but inspired  .

[opus10no2]

Haha, no I don't suppose anything, I simply put it forward as a possibility.

And I still think it may be partially true, but your post outlines(to me) a life directed by either passion or obsession, or a mix of both.

I know I'm intelligent, but I see what I know as not a product of my intellect, but a product of my inclination and obsession. I also know you're intelligent, but on top of that, it's the thirst for knowledge , combined with it, which is your greatest asset.

There is no IQ test that can reveal the uniqueness of our intelligent, and the spirit of our intent.

I wanted to ask you, do you think you are passionate? obsessed? something else? and how do you personally define these words?

And I forgot to wish you the best of luck with your upcoming concerts, though you wont need it. I only wish I could attend 

[m1469]

(...) your post outlines(to me) a life directed by either passion or obsession, or a mix of both.

Well, whatever in the universe would give you such an idea ? 
 

I wanted to ask you, do you think you are passionate? obsessed? something else?

How about inspired, animated and determined .

and how do you personally define these words?

To be honest, I don't know.  I would have to think about it a bit.  For me, though, I would say that obviously I have a little of both -- though, they really are losing their meaning to me anymore.  I have fancied myself as passionate, and sometimes I still do, but lately I would rather be those things that I mentioned above, or at least more than just passionate ... however, it doesn't really matter what we call it, does it ?  As long as it works its magic, I will take it, whatever it is 

How do you personally define those words ?

And I forgot to wish you the best of luck with your upcoming concerts, though you wont need it. I only wish I could attend 

Thank you very much 

[opus10no2]

'Inspired' is linked with passion, but animated and determined are results not causes, I think.

Still I think it comes down to passion and obsession, passion being a strong feeling, even love for the subject at hand, and I do think thats a great part of you ( and me too) but obsession seems to be there too.

I don't use the word with a bad connotation, it simply means to me...an inclination of the brain, to cycle and continually think about this one subject, and a desire to gather more information to feed the cycle.

The difference, I suppose between passion and obsession, is the feeling behind it, passion is a result of love for something, obsession is a result of the hunger of the brain, I suppose, and the hunger can be irrational in light of the complete picture of our lives, if you think of the 'evolutionary purpose' of our species...could be seen as a flaw.

Personally, I have worried about my obsessive nature, and more specifically worried that my life was driven less by passion and more by obsession. Now though,  I'm not ashamed, but in a way proud of my obsessive nature, as it maintains an inexorable focus on everything, I can't take my mind off it. But also because I know it is also fuelled by a genuine passion and deep love, of which I'm also proud, it's something my heart beats for.

Previously in my life, I had short term obsessions over things, but nothing that lasted this long. I had a fear it would go away, but it has stayed, and it has stayed because I know it's a passion, not a fleeting one, but a lifelong one, one you and I share. 

[m1469]

'Inspired' is linked with passion

Yes, I know .

but animated and determined are results not causes, I think.

I would say that animated is to some degree, a result, as you say, of inspiration.  And, my sense of determination is the very thing that keeps me going on many occasions.  You see, there are certain things that I am determined about -- and, for me anyway, often the cause and effect of my animation are very much the same thing.

Sometimes I just resonate with different words at different points in my life.  For some people it's merely a matter of semantics, for me, it's poetic to some degree, but also a chance to discover a different shade of something I thought I already understood.  It is a way to stay fresh.

Personally, I have worried about my obsessive nature, and more specifically worried that my life was driven less by passion and more by obsession.

Yes, I have been worried about both at times; a life driven by passion as well as a life driven by obssession.  But, I do tend to ponder these things philosophically, as well as personally.   I appreciate what you have described below :

Now though,  I'm not ashamed, but in a way proud of my obsessive nature, as it maintains an inexorable focus on everything, I can't take my mind off it. But also because I know it is also fuelled by a genuine passion and deep love, of which I'm also proud, it's something my heart beats for.

Previously in my life, I had short term obsessions over things, but nothing that lasted this long. I had a fear it would go away, but it has stayed, and it has stayed because I know it's a passion, not a fleeting one, but a lifelong one, one you and I share. 

For me, I see inspiration as having an infinite source, and one that all of mankind is capable of tapping into at any time, and any where we wish.  I see it as something that is always "speaking" to each of us.  Whereas, even with the most long-lasting loves of my life, the passion and obssession for it seems to dissipate, for periods of time at least. 

Because of this, and because I am often needing to reach deeper into existence to find my identity as well as the identity of mankind, I have gradually wished to base my life on something that is not quite as tidal on the passion that is me, me, me.   I want something better than passion and obssession -- I am obssessed with that, and I feel quite passionately about it  .

[opus10no2]

Well, determination is a quality of your personality in general, and I understand somewhat about the affinity you feel for certain words, and what they mean to you , even if it may be a slight variation on the actual definition( because not everything is definable, which is one reason we have music )

Your last words are interesting, something to think about, but also being 'tidal' is part of nature, and may be a resistance to being too obsessed on one thing? Not sure, but noone should be so sure of themselves to deny the fact we're all animals with some desires and impulses we have little or no concious control over.
Mood swings are natural, and if a passion appears to fade in light of something else, the mere fact that you come back to it again is enough to know that the passion isn't as 'tidal' as it appeared, at least I'd like to think so..

I suppose there's the difference, I like to think I'm independant and you like the feeling of not dependance, but connection to something that binds us?
Though I may not think the same way, I'm always fascinated still. 

[m1469]

I suppose there's the difference, I like to think I'm independant and you like the feeling of not dependance, but connection to something that binds us?

Actually, I see my existence (or ... 'animation' if you will  ) as completely, utterly and solely dependent on life.  And, I see this as a reality for all of us.

[opus10no2]

It is interesting to think that we are not responsible for our own volition and sometimes extreme efforts.

Who deserves credit, if credit is due?

I understand that what we percieve to be volition is a result of genetic predisposition and empirical/any experience.

So if who we are is a result of things beyond anyone's control, what reason would we have to respect that individual..and not the chain of reactions in the universe that made that individual (and their 'volition') come to be..?

[m1469]

It is interesting to think that we are not responsible for our own volition and sometimes extreme efforts.

Who deserves credit, if credit is due?

I understand that what we percieve to be volition is a result of genetic predisposition and empirical/any experience.

So if who we are is a result of things beyond anyone's control, what reason would we have to respect that individual..and not the chain of reactions in the universe that made that individual (and their 'volition') come to be..?

Well, all of this is vital to each of our lives, I think.  And, therefore, all of it is vital to our state of artistry and sense of fulfilliment within it, as well.   These are life-questions and concepts, and I think they are things that each of us need to come to terms with within ourselves, individually -- and, our sense of being "at terms" with it all, will most-likely modify over time and through experience.

[opus10no2]

Of course, but in spite of this I admire *you* independantly from all the the factors/ingredients ( ) that made you *be*.

I don't see or feel anything but you and your beauty, and you should feel pride. Feel the sense of self-importance you deserve.

[m1469]

Of course, but in spite of this I admire *you* independantly from all the the factors/ingredients ( ) that made you *be*.

I don't see or feel anything but you and your beauty, and you should feel pride. Feel the sense of self-importance you deserve.

Okay.  Well, I can appreciate this in several ways and on several levels, and I do know what you are meaning.  But, I have a couple of things to say to this (and I don't mean to take away from you what you value -- that is your right).

What I find myself challenged by is this sense of self-importance, and, while I do not disagree with it altogether, I find it very .... worthy, of extreme caution.  And, I don't mean because I think at some point I will be damned for doing something wrong or selfish, or that I will be struck by lightning by God, or that I am taking sides with the Devil -- I actually mean it exactly for selfish reasons  .   

If I base my sense of self-importance on my "beauty," for example, I find myself asking ... well, what, exaclty, is beautiful about me ?   Let's say I think it's my eyebrows.  Well, what happens if they get shaved off ?  Am I no longer beautiful ?  Well, if my sense of self-importance is limited to my love for my eyebrows, then to myself, I have suddenly lost my beauty and I am no longer worth the life that I take up. 

In my mind, the same can be said for any physical feature or combination of them (including something like piano skills).  So, at this point in my life, while I do enjoy being beautiful -- I do not base my sense of beauty on what I look like physically, exactly.  I believe that is an outward manifestation of something inward, but, it's not the thing itself (I think this about everything, actually).  So, in my own best interest, and knowing that my hair will turn grey and my face will become older looking, I am striving to base my sense of self-importance or self-worth, and even my sense of beauty, on something that is much more lasting.  I suspect that you also feel something similar, but, I am just stating my thoughts.

The other thing is that in my mind, what you are 'seeing' in me is not exaclty what it may seem.  You are ready to see what you see, and that's why you see it.  And, actually, most likely what you see as beautiful in me, is stuff that you already value either in yourself, or in life in general -- but I think of that as very good.

I personally find that the more I appreciate what there is within the universe, including what I see in other people, the more it inspires me to also express it.  It's similar to something as simple as seeing somebody else wear a pair of pants that you like, and deciding to get a pair to wear around yourself.

So, for me, it goes back to the question what is 'self' ?  I am constantly wanting to gain a deeper view, and to me, I will admit, I constantly wish to spiritualize my concept of it all, for the sake of myself, even. 

Sometimes I struggle with a sense of ego and wanting to be important, but I have always found this to be the result of a limited view.

[opus10no2]

I was speaking about the beauty of your person and your spirit (defined - the vital principle or animating force within living things), not your looks, beautiful as they are .

The sense of self is interesting, because though we all are *consequences*, we are the pilots of our own *sequence*, noone else is living your life, though they all are effecting it.

What I'm saying is that when people love you, they love *you*, and though you question it, you may see yourself as only part of a great puzzle or mosaic, it is this piece that you occupy that they love, your your occupation of that piece in itself is worthy of those things I mentioned.

I also understand what you mean about hearing what you want to hear, but if that were completely the way it is, why would I find joy in much that is unexpected?

[m1469]

Well, perhaps I should find a way to just accept what you say 

(...) but if that were completely the way it is, why would I find joy in much that is unexpected?

Because you also delight in 'the unexpected' as an ingredient to life

[opus10no2]

Perhaps, I also wonder what we have each learned from this correspondence. I think I've deepened my own views, views that would have came out anyway, but you watered the seed, but nothing has really changed. I've gotten to know you better though, and the knowledge I learn about you isn't to set myself up to understand humanity, I'm sorry to say it's all about you.

Religious discussions are interesting, but I;m sure you've noticed that never has an opinion actually been changed. Perspective can change and evolve, and even ignorance can be fostered(depending on the inclination of the person), but the core fundamentals don't change.
So, what I mean to say is, we don't seek to have out mind's changed, we seek to deepen our understanding, with the ultimate goal of having our all-important thoughts confirmed 
Maybe an exercise for the ego, but I admire people who unpretentiously admit they have an ego, and aren't ashamed of it.

Don't use the embarrased smiley anymore  own it 

[m1469]

Perhaps, I also wonder what we have each learned from this correspondence. I think I've deepened my own views, views that would have came out anyway, but you watered the seed, but nothing has really changed. I've gotten to know you better though, and the knowledge I learn about you isn't to set myself up to understand humanity, I'm sorry to say it's all about you.

Religious discussions are interesting, but I;m sure you've noticed that never has an opinion actually been changed. Perspective can change and evolve, and even ignorance can be fostered(depending on the inclination of the person), but the core fundamentals don't change.
So, what I mean to say is, we don't seek to have out mind's changed, we seek to deepen our understanding, with the ultimate goal of having our all-important thoughts confirmed 
Maybe an exercise for the ego, but I admire people who unpretentiously admit they have an ego, and aren't ashamed of it.

Don't use the embarrased smiley anymore  own it 

hmmmm... well, I get the sense that you assume I have had some ulterior motive and that I have been trying to change your mind about something by writing this stuff, and that is simply not the case.  All in all, all along the way, I have been aware that you will think what you think of me, and that is that.  I don't even try to make myself more clear to you through this.

And, I also get the sense that you think I am talking about "religion" just because I brought up a word like "spiritualization" ... I think that's funny.  I know it's a trigger word, but, all the same, I was just being honest.

One thing that I have definitely learned is why I have felt misunderstood on many occasions throughout my life ... LOL.  It's precisely because I don't want people to settle in assuming they know me 

[opus10no2]

And that's always the most exciting way, isn't it?  No matter how great something is, if it's too easy, it's boring 

I don't assume, I question. One of the main questions being to wonder why you are so *open* on this public forum, when you know perfectly well these things could be said privately.
I can think of a number of possibilities..you want to inspire others with your brazen openness, you want to find acceptance and understanding, and like I've said before, I think it's also a mix of confidence and abandon.
You have a degree of confidence, but alot of this looks like abandon, risking yourself and hoping for the best.

I was using religion as an example, regarding deeply rooted belief systems, how we all cope with the unanswered/unanswerable.

[m1469]

hmmm... okay 

Well, as I said, you will see what you want to see (and if confidence or abandon are the only two things you can think of, I don't know what to say  ).  And, you will never see the whole picture, you will never know my motives for what I do and say on here. 

Maybe this has all, in fact, been for you 

[opus10no2]

I'd like to think so, but unfortunately for me I haven't sufficient ego to flatter myself 

[m1469]

Well, I am getting depressed.  I haven't been practicing piano or voice -- where did this last week go ?  I haven't any clue.  And, if I get depressed like this, I think I can't do anything, so I don't and I just get more and more depressed -- it's a viscious cycle.  Why do I get depressed when I don't practice ?

It's just ... I think about my music and I feel stuck... I am sure I can get myself unwound, but why ?  What's the point ? 

[edit] Okay, I remember I have practiced parts this week -- but nothing too serious and not consistently.  Plus, I am getting depressed without my voice lessons and singing ... and it's affecting my piano playing.  Sometimes I *hate* being so tied to two instruments.  Okay -- but we've heard that before (boy have we  ).

Anyway, I feel like I am not making any progress at all, except for conceptually -- and what good is that if I don't sit down and put the concepts into practice and into musical sounds and movements ?

[opus10no2]

Hormones? Go out for a run and some exercise, they release positive hormones, activity encourages further activity.

I've been through it too, and came out the other side.