Coming to lesson to learn

[juelle]

I have a refrain stuck in my head that says a piano student should be coming to the lesson to learn.  Lately, it seems like some of my adult and teenage students have just come to show off what they can play and not to learn how to play better.  One adult, especially, really needs to learn humility (maybe in a Buddhist monastery!?)  She wants to control the lesson, and everything I have tried to remedy the situation has failed.   I do allow my students a lot of input, and my lessons are varied and interesting.  I should say that most of the students are having a great time and progressing rapidly, but those few who have the attitude problem are really stuck.  How do you deal with people like that?

[m1469]

Let 'em play and give 'em more music; lots more 

Anyway, I am not positive exactly what kind of attitude you are talking about or which student situation, exactly, that you are wanting advices on.  Maybe you could be more detailed in your description regarding an individual case ?

[a-sharp]

I hope this doesn't sound overly obvious, but, have you tried just taking a step back, letting them do their thing - show off or whatever - then wait - and ask them if they want your advise? It seems so silly maybe, but sometimes people need to hear it put that way to realize how their acting ... make it obvious that they are coming across like they don't really want your help [like, "Susie, that was nice - are you happy with how that sounds? Is there anything you think would make it better?... something like that] - IOW - make them *ask* for your help. Perhaps, just take one lesson where you just let them play, and make no comments at all.

What if ... you take a lesson and record them - then listen together - compare it to other recordings ... I'm totally grasping at straws -but, either there's a way to reach them, or, they don't really want lessons, they just want an audience - right? Only thing is - you have to make them realize it - you can't tell them - if that makes any sense....

Are they doing any performances? Perhaps, put them in one - or suggest it - maybe that will put a different spin on things .... ?!

[a-sharp]

Heh - here's an idea - sign them up for a master class [assuming they're good enough]. Sometimes that brings out the 'humilty' factor ......... ? [I'm evil, I know]

[cjp_piano]

Heh - here's an idea - sign them up for a master class [assuming they're good enough]. Sometimes that brings out the 'humilty' factor ......... ? [I'm evil, I know]

I was actually thinking the same thing as I was reading your other ideas in the previous post!  A master class is a great idea.  Or even just a performance class with your other stubborn students  MAKE them give advice to each other. . . . ah ha ha ha (melodramatic evil laugh)

Seriously though, those are good ideas.  Let them do their thing and be in charge, ask them what they want to do next, etc.  I'm sure they'll soon realize that they haven't got a clue.  If they still don't realize that they need your help, then oh well, at least you're making good money to sit there and do nothing, pretty easy job     

[kghayesh]

I don't know why piano teachers don't discuss such issues with their students. It will be a lot better and easier and more accepted from both sides if you discuss what do you both want from the lesson. Most of my problems with my teacher are because we are not frank with each other usually and coz she doesn't discuss anything with me about the lesson itself. 99 % of the talking is in issues about the music and so.

My advice is to discuss it with them and tell them what you think and what do you want.

[keyofc]

Well, if you really feel they are trying to show off a little,
isn't that good in a way? 
Here's how I look at it: (Unless they are totally trying to monopolize the lesson, of course)
1.  They are enjoying the music and feel good about playing
2.  They are happy - they must be connected to their music.
3   Performance isn't a huge issue for them.
4.  That's good - you're building their confidence
5.   Now why not bring out the good points of what they are doing and then show
them how to make it even better?
6.   You can focus on the certain things that you have added and explain how they can use them


I know you might have tried this - but maybe if you show them how much better it can sound - it will motivate them and encourage them that they can make it sound that way.

I did have one adult student that was unbelievable.  He would not take any constructive criticism at all.  He told me I never gave him goals.  I told him I was trying to help him meet his goals.  He said he wanted me to give him goals.  (I had goals within our lessons before, but they were not clear-cut to him, I thought)
So next time he came, I presented him with a goal sheet.  He said he wanted to play rhtym  his own way - and he didn't want any of my help. 

I told him that he was off and it wasn't flowing - He said he didn't care.  He was dead serious.
So I finally told him after trying many things with him, that if he thought I was just going to
sit there and compliment him and take his money - he was wrong.  Do you know what he said to me?  Yes - that's what I want you to do!

I said that as a teacher I was not going to do that - and there were probably some teachers out there that would be happy to take his money.

My brother in law - who is in the demolition business said, "I would have done it!  Why didn't you send him to me"" 

hehe
I hope you don't have a student like that - it was a very hard few months with him.

[alzado]

This is so interesting to me -- including the prior remark by keyofc.

I am 66 years old and play at -- maybe early advanced level?

I did have a very elderly teacher who I liked a lot but was just injured in a fall and will not be able to return to teaching.  So now I have a new teacher.

The elderly teacher (80?) more or less just listened to me play, and picked up on major errors.  She was more of a "contributing audience of one."  No one else really hears me play except the cats.  Unlike some of the most stubborn adult students, I did work to try to correct the problems she revealed to me.  I remember playing a couple of staves of Bach what seemed like a million times  . . .  !!

My new teacher is a young woman with a piano performance major, recently graduated.  She is a gifted pianist -- really good.   

I don't try to show off to my teachers, because I know what GOOD really means, and certainly they know.  So playing mid-level piano works competently may seem GOOD to the neighbor lady who happens to hear me play.  But there are degrees of GOOD, and it takes some real knowledge to know what GOOD means with piano. 

Mainly I do enjoy being able to prepare material to take to my lesson, and I enjoy having someone who plays listen to what I am working on.  I'm glad for some advice, and some projects for improvement.

But as for GOALS now - - - -  I told my young performance wizard  -- put yourself in my place, I'm old.  No more recitals for me.  No cheering crowds.  No dreams of a career in music.  I just love to play, and it is a nice enterprise for me.  I want to get better.  But in a relaxed, amiable sort of way.

Don't try to get me to replay a stave of notes again and again to get that unteenth little touch of extra polish.  I may not even have it in me.  On the other hand, if I am getting my thirds all out of kilter by playing them at the wrong tempo, well . . . lets work on that.

When I come to my next lesson, I always play at least some of the material she has coached me on, as if to say . . . you see, I do pay attention, and I do respect your teaching.  But then I may pull out something she has never heard me play and say, "do you mind if I play this for you?"

Sorry this is so long .......................

[juelle]

I just got a revelation -- I read your replies when I was still miffed at that student, and nothing seemed helpful.  Today I read them again after a couple of weeks "cooling off period" and now nearly everything is helpful.   I really like the idea of letting her drive and seeing where we go; probably to a dead end, but at least then she'll see the problem.  The other students who were avoiding learning were just suffering from spring fever, apparently, and the end of the school term.  They're perking up now. 

Thanks for your comments!