Learning by ear or from sheet music?

[sevencircles]

I heard recently that Argerich, Brendel, Hofmann, Berman and Volodos have one thing in common.

They learned 90 percent of their repertoire or more by ear.


I couldn´t believe it when I heard it.

Do you have any idea  if that is true?

[jperiod]

I don't know about Argerich, Hoffmann, Bergman or Volodos, but this excert from an essay by Brendel on his recordings of Beethoven Piano works seems to suggest otherwise:

"For a player to study autographs and first prints is more than a hobby; in spite of modern Urtext editions, it is frequently a necessity. When does an Urtext edition deserve to be so called? When, basing itself on all existing original sources, it reproduces the text as the composer might have wished to see it, while at the same time discussing mistakes, omissions and doubtful passages in detailed critical notes, quoting all divergent readings, and substantiating editorial decisions. Heinrich Schenker's exemplary edition of the sonatas and the widely esteemed Henle edition come closest to these requirements, without entirely fulfilling them; the edition by Craxton and Tovey regrettably ignores many of Beethoven's articulation markings, while giving phrasing indications of dubious value. The definitive editorial work is still to be done.

Using the early prints as the point of reference, I myself corrected a large part of the variation works, since at the time of recording no tolerably reliable edition of the second volume was yet in existence. In connection with the recording of the miscellaneous pieces (Bagatelles, Rondos, etc.) I began to prepare an Urtext edition of all those pieces I was including in my gramophone series. Certain important documents, however, did not come to my notice until after the recording sessions were over -- as for instance the autograph of the 'Easy Caprice' and the London first editions of some works, the significance of which was not realized until Alan Tyson's book The Authentic English Editions of Beethoven (Faber & Faber) was published in 1963."

JW

[sevencircles]

but this excert from an essay by Brendel on his recordings of Beethoven Piano works seems to suggest otherwise

I believe that Brendel has claimed that he never became  a proper sightreader.

Everything is relative I guess.

[opus10no2]

I heard recently that Argerich, Brendel, Hofmann, Berman and Volodos have one thing in common.

They learned 90 percent of their repertoire or more by ear.


I couldn´t believe it when I heard it.

Do you have any idea  if that is true?

It's not, but it depends what you mean by ear, sounds like these pianists aren't perhaps the greatest sightreaders and memorise musically, not by muscular memory so much.

[sevencircles]

It's not, but it depends what you mean by ear

I mean by listening to other people playing and just checking out the score if you feel that they play some parts too sloppy.

[opus10no2]

I don't know if that's humanly possible.

I know there's the possibility to retain musical information, but the ability to know every figuration by ear, and be able to reproduce them, is a different quality, and one which I'd think would be even more rare, and I'd bet against Brendel having this ability, especially.

[mephisto]

It is impossible - not to mention stupid - to play classical music from ear. Because it is in the score it self that we find the information of how to play the . This coupled with our natural musicality of course.

With encore-like-transcriptions played by the composer himself it might work to just copy everything you hear, because you are listening to an authority. But not for let us say a Beethoven sonata or a contemporary piece  by Ligeti for instance.

[sevencircles]

It is impossible - not to mention stupid - to play classical music from ear. Because it is in the score it self that we find the information of how to play the . This coupled with our natural musicality of course.

For some people it may work actually.

Heard some reports that Lazar Berman almost forgot how to sightread since he never played from the page anyway.

[rc]

That's just playing from memory...  They can all read music, but perhaps don't have good sightreading because they can pull the information off the page and don't need to reference it very much.

[sevencircles]

That's just playing from memory...  They can all read music, but perhaps don't have good sightreading because they can pull the information off the page and don't need to reference it very much.

Correct, but for some people it may be take a lot more time to learn from the page so they avoid that if possible

[piano_ant]

What is important is the idea of balance. Using the music too much can cause dependence and can hamper the overall flow (unless of course you are extremely proficient at it). However, not using the music enough is often a mistake. Music is like good poetry. The first time you read it, it means one thing, then something completely different the next. The same can go for music. The more you actually read it, the more you see. This can help with phrasing ideas, motifs etc. The music should always be in front of you during a practice session, just so you still have the opportunity to use it in case you need or want to. I personally never start a piece without looking at the score for a good while before hand. Its easier to memorize and i simply understand the piece as a whole better once ive become familiar with the score.

[lostinidlewonder]

When you listen to a piece of music enough times you can hear it in your head and listen to it at your own will, having the phantom sound play in your mind. You can hear if it sounds exactly the same when you try to play it on the piano as well and if there is any difference you can adjust it.

When you learn a piece by ear you still will require the sheet music because you cannot  totally believe your sound memory to guide you 100%, there will always be a slight difference. My father plays completely by ear, he cannot read a single note, but if you play something for him he can recreate it, even difficult classical music is recreated in his own style, it is a type of ear training that I am beyond but we shouldn't underestimate the power of playing by ear. It certainly is much more efficient than the best sight reading skill in my mind.

I sure get jealous when he listens to something on Radio or Tv and jumps onto the piano and plays it having never played it before but having heard it only once. It throws out hours of practice to memorise music in a matter of seconds because you can hear the music from within and also create that sound by manipulating your fingers and observing pattern. Insane and a different way of thinking for sure, very right brain thinking. I believe most great "jazz" pianists can all play by ear, it is pretty much a requirement for fine improvisation.

There are still piano pieces I haven't learnt but which are imprinted into my mind. I can hear that phantom sound play at will and I can pay attention to all sounds in my minds eye. If I want to learn these pieces I pretty much can stumble through it without the sheet music at all, but I know there will be inaccuracies because of the amount of notes required. There is a pay off, if you try to keep the tempo even without stuttering while you try to find the right notes when playing by ear, you must actually miss a few notes. So when I put up the sheet music, I only have to read the notes which trouble me, not every single dot. So the ear training allows you to read say 10 dots out of 100 instead of relying on all 100 dots to tell you what to do in a phrase.