Hypothetical Program: Liszt as Transcriber

[dnephi]

So, I was thinking of 3 different programs about the same idea, for 30, 60, and 90 minutes respectively.  Time is given approximately, in minutes.

Program 1:
Bach-Liszt: Prelude and Fugue in A Minor, BWV 543 (~9)
Schubert-Liszt: Gretchen Am Spinnrade (~3)
Liszt: S139-4,8 (~12)
Wagner-Liszt: Isolde Liebestod (~6)

Program 2:
Bach-Liszt: Prelude and Fugue in A Minor, BWV 543 (~9)
Wagner-Liszt: Am Stillen Herd (From Die Meistersinger) (~8)
Beethoven-Liszt: Symphony #5 (~30)
Stravinsky-Agosti: Three Movements from the Firebird Suite (~11)

Program 3:
Bach-Liszt: Prelude and Fugue in A Minor, BWV 543 (~9)
Beethoven-Liszt: Symphony No. 3 "Eroica" (~45)
---  Intermission ---
Liszt: S139-4,8 (~12)
Schumann-Liszt Widmung (~4)
Mozart-Liszt Reminiscences de Don Juan (~16)


What are your opinions on each of these separate programs?

Now, a different thought.  Often, Chopin Etudes are played before the Godowsky Etudes.  Has anyone performed the S136 Etudes immediately prior to the S139 etudes to show progression from boyhood to manhood?

[thalbergmad]

Spectacular, albeit a little Liszt heavy.

I would attend all but the 3rd.

Thal

[soliloquy]

Yeah, bit too much on the Liszt-Bach.


Also, have you looked at the Bach-Liszt Fantasy et Fugue or the Bach-Liszt Fantasy on the Theme B-A-C-H?  They're probably a bit more "crowd-pleasing".  I would defo keep the Stravinsky and the Liebestod though.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

How about the Alkan transcription of the Andante from Haydn Symphony no. 94? Or there is the really brave choice of the Beethoven/Alkan 1st movement from the 3rd piano concerto.

Busoni is conspicuous by his omission from the programme lists.

Ditto Thalberg (I can't believe Thal didn't mention that)  - Casta diva is a nice transcription of his; there are acres of flashy ones to choose from (my favourite would probably be Don Pasquale).

Of course, perhaps semantics would need to be considered; most of the pieces mentioned are transcriptions, whereas some are paraphrases/fantasies.

[opus10no2]

I love the Eroica transcription though, but it should end the program, it dwarves the Don Juice.

[desordre]

 Dear Dnephi:
 Cool idea, although I agree with the other boys: too Liszt oriented. Perhaps, you could play an all Liszt program of transcriptions. Anyway, to give this idea of "art of transcription", I think you must include other composers and, specially, other periods. Why not starting with some transcription made by Bach himself? Then, in the 19th century, you have tons of possibilities, and the suggestions made by Mr(s). Sylphes are amazing. Finally, there are interesting transcriptions made by 20th century composers, e.g., Bartok, Kurtag and Rachmaninoff, just to quote some examples.
 Best!

[pita bread]

I think that's why he changed the topic of the thread.

The Wagner-Liszt Tannhauser Overture needs to show up on there somewhere.

[dnephi]

Yea.  I actually chose them all by Liszt, if possible, partially as tribute to Liszt. 

[hodi]

beethoven symphonies sound so bad on piano
liszt probably had some extra time and he was bored.
those transcriptions are good but on orchestra they sound SO MUCH BETTER

[ronde_des_sylphes]

If it is to be all Liszt, I'd say it has to include what I would consider the three "big" operatic transcriptions/paraphrases, ie Don Juan, Tannhauser, Norma.

I'd definitely include the Liebestod, also Abendstern from Tannhauser, Reminiscences of Lucia di Lammermoor.

Others for consideration from opera: Tarantelle di bravoure on La Muette de Porcici, Robert le Diable, Danse macabre, Sarabande and Chaconne from Handel's Almira (to be a little different), Reminiscences de Boccanegra (an example of a late transcription)

Schubert songs: Die Forelle, Auf dem Wasser zu singen, amongst others.

[dnephi]

If you did all three of those and the Liebestod, that would be a very unbalanced program, wouldn't it?  Is that acceptable?

And Hodi, about the Liszt transcriptions, see Walker's "Reflections on Liszt"- "Liszt and the Beethoven Symphonies."

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Oh, I didn't really intend to have the three biggies in the same programme. You're right, it would be unbalanced. I just thought they should be in the overall group, perhaps one in each set.

The Liebestod, Abendstern and Tannhauser might suffice for a 30-min programme, making for a theme of Wagner-Liszt. Possibly a touch short of 30 though.

[dnephi]

How long is Tannhauser?  Don Juan is ~16, right? Norma ~15?

How long is abendstern?

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Quick look in my cds..

My Thibaudet rec of Abendstern is 6.10; can't find my Libetta rec for comparison just now, sorry.

Tannhauser (Cziffra) 15.28 (Bolet) 16.27

Don Juan, length varies depending on whether you play the full transition to the presto; I think the timing extremes have been from 14-18 mins.

Norma 15 is about right. Bolet's Great Pianists recording is quite a bit longer, but he was very old and not in very good health when he made it.

[dnephi]

Abendstern doesn't appear in my set of the complete Wagner Transcriptions?

I'm not sure what this is.

Thanks for checking those lengths.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Ok, according to my score (Dover edition) the full title is
"O, du mein holder Abendstern: Rezitativ und Romanze aus der Oper "Tannhauser" or
Recitative and Romance "Evening Star" from Tannhauser.

("Abendstern" = "Evening Star").
Hope that helps.

[dnephi]

Ah, Evening Star.  Thanks, sorry.

The title given it was "Wolfram's Romanze"

Have you heard Am Stillen Herd?  It's gorgeous, although certainly not as epic as the Liebestod.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

No problem  Yes, I will have heard it, will dig it out again; it's on the Libetta cd I couldn't find a few minutes ago! It didn't make that much impact on me the first time round; but tbh I wasn't  that enamoured of some of Libetta's playing on the disc, so I may not be judging it fairly.

[dnephi]

Now, I have a strong personal preference for Don Juan over the others, although it is now far beyond me.  Do you think the Norma would be a good technical preparation for the more difficult work?  It looks almost like a series of etudes.

I'm still thinking.  About the chord execution difficulties in these pieces, I'm thinking that the Paganini Etude in A minor would be a perfect way to work on it.

And about the Herd, the best part, in my opinion, is when Liszt is writing his own material.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Don Juan is extremely difficult. Norma's not that far behind it technically. I think if I was trying to bring someone's technique to the level of preparing Don Juan, I would give them exercises in scales in thirds and left hand octaves, but I'm not a teacher, so it's possible my advice is not very worthwhile. Also, I feel kinda uneasy about giving someone advice on preparing for Don Juan when I struggle to play it myself