Ethical issues regarding transfer students

[a-sharp]

I have searched the posts and didn't find a particular discusson this, so forgive me if I somehow missed it. Feel free to post endless links to previous posts.

My question has to do with how you all each handle inquiries such as this one [or something similar]:

We got your email[/saw your ad/heard about/etc] ... piano lessons.

I have a 9 year (old) who has been taking piano for 2 1/2 years Also a 6 year old who just started.

Though we have a teacher currently, I feel what you are offereing (her typo, I thought I'd leave in, lol) may help take the girls reach another level.

Please let me know what you think.
We have a keyboard at the house.

.....
Let's say, you live in a small-ish town [not some big city like New York or somewhere where there is an abundance of teachers - which, I think would make a difference as to how you handle such things. Put simply, everybody knows everybody here - if not, we all will eventually. you get the idea.]

As for me - I am a member of my local music teacher's organization - and, while I'm sure many teachers will teach students on a keyboard, that is not what I do [I'll make exceptions for families that intend to purchase an acoustic piano - assuming I believe them, LOL]. More importantly, I personally am cautious about taking students who are currently with teachers in my small community - regardless of whether or not I know them [yet].... I am actively looking for students, and from a financial standpoint, need more work ... so, there is pretty much the summary of issues.

I am in the process of formulating a tactful response in general to similar inquires [I've had a couple], but it still feels a little awkward - and I'd really love to hear what real-life responses you all have.

[PS - in case this is relavant - which I might be a little, this is pretty much an actual email, from a neighbor within 1 block of me. I am currently teaching a mom and her daughter - also neighbors as well ... I have no idea if they associate with them or not..... but, neither of those 2 were with teachers when they started with me... I do know teachers who have policies about not teaching friends' or neighbor's kids, but in my situation, my neighbors may be my best customers, as my parking situation is problematic at best... hence, I have marketed a little to the ones nearest me ...........]

I'm interested in what you all personally do ... not going to judge what anyone's policy is regardless.

Possible responses - "sure, fine, come on over!" ... "call me when you've discontinued lessons with your teacher" ... "sorry I don't take transfer students without proper ID"...

[last one was a joke,. but hoping for serious respones - you get the idea]

thanks in advance.

[amanfang]

Have they talked to their teacher about discontinuing with them and beginning again with a new teacher?  Sometimes the teacher/student dynamic just doesn't mesh, and it is certainly the parents' prerogative to find another teacher.  I think it's fine so long as you never speak negatively about other teachers in the area to other people. 
Do you have any sort of policy against playing on keyboards? 
Perhaps before you definitely accept them, have them come over for an "interview/audition" type thing.  You can check their "music readiness" and even if it really makes no difference as to whether you will accept them, you will appear to be more professional and make a better impression.  Plus it will give you an idea as to where the kids are in their musical development.  Not really sure if this answers your question, or even how exactly it relates to ethics...but anyway...

[a-sharp]

I plan to speak to them more on Friday - or today, if I can fit it in [I'm not really feeling well, and I have a performance at school tomorrow...]

I suspect this has less to do with dislike of their current teacher and more to do with my convenient location ... perhaps my slick-looking flyer.

(My policy on keyboards is basically as I was decribing .... that's about it)
(As for it relating to ethics - it has to do with avoidling any possible perception whatsoever that I am soliciting or enticing students away from other teachers in my commity. I am sort of the new teacher on the block, so to speak. And - my previous teacher did have a policy of not taking students that were with other teachers at all essentially. She had a waiting list of those students... - I hope that heps ....)

In any case - I intend to talk with them to see if I even want to meet with them - my general feeling was that if they are wanting their daughters to get to a "higher level" with the piano playing, they should probably first consider if they are going to actually be playing on a piano...

[drjames]

I think you have to look at this from a business perspective.  You will gain students and you will lose students.  Hopefully more of the first than the latter.  If you're just starting you should be trying to take whoever wants to come and don't worry about why. Even if they only take one lesson and move on it's still business done.  I have had many people transfer to me, come one time and move on.  I have learned after 17 years to not dwell on it as I have plenty of kids who have been with me for 15, 16 and 17 years.  I also don't understand not seeing neighbors.  If you are in a business that demands frequent contact with people you cannot be afraid of making them mad.  The important thing is be honest and do what is right.  Teach the kids close by.  When you see them outside you can ask how practice is going and maybe help with a little problem they may be having. In short, don't fail to take a new student because you might annoy their previous teacher or because they live next door.  You might be exactly the teacher they need to get to the next level or to renew their interest in the piano. James

[stevehopwood]

Apart from having learned to both work with pupils living close by and avoiding 'making then mad' so I do not have to be afraid of doing this, I agree with drjames. 

If parents decide to bring their kids to you for lessons, it is not up to you to vet their reasons for leaving their previous teacher; to try to do so would be presumptuous.

As drjames pointed out, clients will come and go at times that suit themselves, so accept them whilst they are coming.

 

[cjp_piano]

I agree, don't worry about "taking students away from another teacher."  You aren't doing anything wrong by accepting new students.  We teach students that had other teachers previously, and sometimes students leave us and go to other teachers.  That's the nature of what we do

As far as friends and neighbors, they are usually the best clients.  At the music academy where I teach, there are many families that are friends with each other through school, neighbors, church, whatever.  Having this kind of "community" atmosphere is healthy and benefits everyone.   Students get to be in recitals with their friends and even get to play duets and trios with each other.  Parents can take turn giving rides, they remind each other about upcoming events and encourage each other to participate.  As teachers, we begin to see that our students are much more motivated and committed to studying piano.  They are also reluctant to withdrawal because they feel like part of a group instead of just a once-a-week appointment 

[keyofc]

A-sharp,
Here's the way I do it - I only teach neighbors, unless it's someone that comes referred or that I meet and it just happens.  My reason for this - is I feel it's much safer since I teach them in my home. 

As far as how I feel if they are still with a teacher, I guess if the teacher lived on the same block I do - and I knew them - I might feel a little uncomfortable, but as long as I am not the one stealing their customer, I think it's perfectly fine.

If I frequent one restaurant and change my mind - and start going to the one across the street - they are happy to accept me and my money.  Really - it's just  a business decision.

I do believe in being ethical - I was on my way somewhere and got turned around a few months ago - and went into a somewhat local music shop - and asked directions to an intersection and they wrote directions down on the back of their schedule and gave it to me!
The names, phone numbers, and addresses of students were on the back.  Now if I started using that - I think that would be crossing a line.  Of course, I didn't - but the point is they are coming to you - you're not taking them.

[okietransplant]

I do have a policy that if someone is studying with a local teacher, I tell the parents that I will speak to the current teacher before accepting their students.  There are several reasons for this.  Sometimes, unfortunately, people hop from teacher to teacher and don't pay their bills.  Also, people have communication problems with teachers and unrealistic expectations.  I don't want to inherit those problems.  Most of all, I am in a local teachers' group, as well. As part of our code of ethics, we always check with the previous teacher to see if the bills have been paid.  (You might check with your local group.  Is your group part of MTNA?  I think there might be a code of ethics on their website.)

I had this problem come up recently with a lady on my waiting list.  She called to inquire about where she was on the list.  Then she said, "by the way, I want my son to take from you, too - so I don't have to drive to two teachers' houses."  I could totally understand her viewpoint.  So, I talked to the current teacher, who is a friend of mine.  I found out some additional information that made me decide I did not want to take this family, and that it really would be good for both of these kids to take lessons from my friend.

You say you are the "new teacher on the block".  Don't discount the support the other local teachers can give you.  Our local group refers students to each other all the time.  This support has been invaluable to me.  I would do nothing to lose it, because in the long run, your professional relationships will help you in the community.

By the way, I have a waiting list of 2+ years and I am constantly referring to other teachers rather than put people on my list.  I just feel this is a good way of doing business for me.

[a-sharp]

Hi...

thanks for everyone's responses.

I apologize for my delayed participation in the the conversation I started - I'm in the midst of finals myself and I'm totally swamped!

I think... My thoughts/feelings echo what 'okietransplant's' feelings are ... and - there was probalby a *gut* feeling about this family that raised some suspicion in my mind to be careful about quickly accepting them without more information... Ironincally - I've known the 'father' fo this family in another situation a couple years ago regaridn a traffic debate at city coucil - weird I know... he was a little odd -  Anyway ... the bottom line is that - I *have* talked to some parents who appear to 'teacher-hop' - if that makes any sense - and I certainly don't want to be the 'victim' [?] of any of those families. This is a weird, small-ish, affluent community - and sadly - some of the parents don't have very good communication skills, and  bounce their kids around - more likely just because they want to keep them busy [and out of their hair], than because they are interested in their well-being - I'm sure some of you know what i'm talking about...

...

I have just finished my juries at school - which really went pretty well - but I also auditioned for a scholarship thing that I didn't get - and I'm a little miffed because my only competitor - her teacher came in the room and interrupted my performance - aargh! Nothing I can do about it, sadly.  I can't *prove* that's why I didn't get it - just just part of the story...

Anyway - I do appreciate your input.

***

[andric_s]

Walked in during your audition?   Well, you've got to take the student, now! 
Just kidding.

If you have a feeling about the family, that's worth paying attention to.  As is the issue with the electric keyboard.

I wouldn't turn away a transfer student if they were dissatisfied with their current teacher.  And I would expect them to find another teacher if they were dissatisfied with me.

I prefer to teach friends and neighbors.  They also give me the best word of mouth advertising.

[keyofc]

Hunches are probably the best short cuts to making decisions when they are really strong.

We can rationalize away - but when you have a gut feeling, you can't ignore it.

[lostinidlewonder]

If you have room to take on more students then you should welcome the students. Taking to the teacher or that students is not something that YOU have to consider, that is between the prospective student and their old teacher. If they want to study with you and you want to take them up do so! Their other teacher must not be doing a good enough job if their student is looking for someone else and that is the other teacher fault not yours.

You do not have to say to that teacher, hey, just want to let you know your student wants to come study with me instead. That will put the teacher down, what are they supposed to say anyway? They can't say, Oh please don't take the student I will have no money to live if you take them away from me. Also you do not need their permission from an ethical standpoint just as Domino's pizza doesn't tell McDonalds oh I see some of your customers have bought some pizza from us, is that ok with you? Even if it is a small town you shouldn't feel ashamed of taking other teachers students because again the simple fact is, if the teacher gave good service the student wouldn't want to leave. You have the right to ask the prospective student, what about the other teacher don't you like? Because it might be something that you also do!

When I first started out teaching piano the only students I turned away where those who didn't have a piano. That was the only reason for turning them down. I also have tongue in cheek when they tell me they have a small unweighted keyboard because you cannot really teach a student much on that, but it is good enough for the early beginners although it doesn't develop their finger strength.