RPG

[soliloquy]

Should be obvious.  If you think FF9/10 should be on here then you have no business voting


And I forgot 7.  Although that game blows anyway.  Did forget SNES Star Ocean though.



'tis hard to vote for only three :O

[prometheus]

Only wacky console psuedo-RPGs? And no real ones?

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings

I didn't even know so many "RPGs" existed. Have you played all of them or most of them? If so, how do you find the time?

[soliloquy]

Only wacky console psuedo-RPGs? And no real ones?

Elaborate.

[thalbergmad]

Singles 2.

Can't beat it.

Thal

[ail]

Elaborate.

Well, let me elaborate instead. I never played a console-RPG but I'm very fond of the genre, and indeed the game I'm currently playing is an RPG... and it will take me a few years to complete. Still, for a more PC-friendly list of RPGs which you should by no means miss, here

Baldur's Gate I, II, and expansions (Tales of the Swordcoast, Throne of Bhaal)
Planescape Torment
Icewind Dale, I, II and expansion
Temple of Elemental Evil
The Elder Scrolls Series: Arena (very old), Daggerfall (very old), Oblivion, Morrowind
Neverwinter Nights I and II

Down memory lane, but what memories:
The Eye of the Beholder I, II and III
Lands of Lore
Ultima series (and especially Ultima Underworld II, I never played another game that so perfectly ever conveyed the feeling and mood to the player)

I don't follow the scene anymore, but I must say there are plenty MMORPG (Massive Multi-Player Online RPG) now that have pretty good quality.

Also, let's not forget Table-top RPG: it is old, but it is still the best experience you can have if you like your friends and have a good imagination.

I play D&D (Ravenloft and Dragonlance), and I like Pendragon a lot also.

As for the pseudo-RPG comment above: I have heard, though I have never verified it, that console-RPG tend to be watered-down in some sense. I don't know why this would be, but I remember when Dark Alliance came out that people complained it wasn't anywhere near the original PC Baldur's Gate. Perhaps it's a different kind of game style, perhaps it's even a different conception of RPG. For instance, I could almost class Elite (the very old Elite) as an RPG, even though it is blatantly a space-flight sim.

Care to discuss?

Alex

[ail]

Actually, this link might be a good place to start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_role-playing_game

[soliloquy]

Some computer RPG players argue that it is inappropriate to call console RPGs “role-playing games” because of the inability to influence the outcome of a story. More generally, frequent criticisms of console RPGs are that they involve little skill, are too abstract or unrealistic, or do not offer strong gameplay. This debate does not apply to hack and slashers such as Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and Dungeon Siege, which share the same qualities across platforms.

The inability to control the outcome of the story?  Baldur's Gate I- you either kill serevok or you die.  Chrono Trigger:  you either kill Lavos or you die.  In Baldur's gate there's only one instance in which you have the chance to kill him, in Chrono trigger you can fight him in many different places and times to change the outcome of the story.  Same for games like Legend of Mana and Valkyrie Profile.  In Legend of Mana you build your own world =/

They involve little skill- obviously some people here have never played Terranigma :O  Bahamut Lagoon, also a very complicated battle system.

Unrealistic- ............. right.  Fire 1, unrealistic.  But Magic Missile lv5!  I see that every day in real life

Ahaha you can tell the guy who wrote that little blurb was a huge Baldur's Gate freak because of the BS he spouts about how the PS versions are the same as the PC versions.  The PS versions of Baldur's Gate are more like Crystalis or Soul Blazer.


Anyway, I'd say probably the biggest difference is that the characters are usually more customizable on PC games, but the games themselves are also quite often a bit more tedious and seem less action-focused.

Sides, they just don't have the nostalgia effect that console ones do.

[ail]

The inability to control the outcome of the story?  Baldur's Gate I- you either kill serevok or you die.  Chrono Trigger:  you either kill Lavos or you die.  In Baldur's gate there's only one instance in which you have the chance to kill him, in Chrono trigger you can fight him in many different places and times to change the outcome of the story.  Same for games like Legend of Mana and Valkyrie Profile.  In Legend of Mana you build your own world =/

Yes, but those are the final goals. If you want to take that alley, try the Elder Scrolls series. Thousands and thousands of square miles that you can explore. The main quest was really just present for plot-drive players, because the main focus was to give an open world to the players to explore freely as, for instance, MUDs or table-top. There are numerous quests you can do in BG, with different outcomes depending on your personal preference and not on some stat hidden in the game. But there are also others that depend on your reputation or class, for instance.

They involve little skill- obviously some people here have never played Terranigma :O  Bahamut Lagoon, also a very complicated battle system.

Unrealistic- ............. right.  Fire 1, unrealistic.  But Magic Missile lv5!  I see that every day in real life

I don't know what is meant by the skill involved. Regarding action-type skills, RPG are generally easy. Regarding problem-solving, they're similar to graphic adventurers, but usually easier. Perhaps he's referring to combat skills, which demand especially good planning and strategy. I'd have to play console games to know why he refers this. What do you consider difficult in the games you mentioned?

As for unrealistic, I've a hunch he is referring to something else other than the existence of fantasy (i.e., particular spells). When you do a fantasy game, there are some premises you have to take, like alternate physics and the existence of magics and monsters. Even given those changes, the world can be realistic or not, or if you prefer, coherent and believable. Good science-fiction is that which is somehow believable. An example of an unbeliavable fantasy world would be one where you'd have potent offensive, damage-dealing magic and yet no one had ever thought of creating armies with spellcasters, unless someone gives a good plausible explanation for it within the logic of the fantasy world. D&D tends to be pretty realistic nowadays, because of the many years that people have been playing it and thinking about these things. For contrast, early D&D modules were still too naive and the authors to inexperienced to be fully believable... as are most graphic adventures too, when you have a lone NPC standing day and night at a certain spot because it is plot-centric and it waits there indefinitely for the heroes. Sophisticated RPGs consider this, nowadays, and give their characters some kind of a life-simulating routine.

Ahaha you can tell the guy who wrote that little blurb was a huge Baldur's Gate freak because of the BS he spouts about how the PS versions are the same as the PC versions.  The PS versions of Baldur's Gate are more like Crystalis or Soul Blazer.

And what does that mean?

Anyway, I'd say probably the biggest difference is that the characters are usually more customizable on PC games, but the games themselves are also quite often a bit more tedious and seem less action-focused.

Yes, that's the feeling I have. Instead of being primarily a graphic adventure with lots more freedom, a console RPG tends to be, from what I've heard, a disguised arcade or action game. PC games tend to focus on the freedom they can give to the player. Not everybody likes this freedom, but that is the audience RPGs target: the 'you can do whatever you want, you can be whatever you want' appeal. Combat is secondary, what matters most is exploration, finding secrets, solving quests, and that means a lot of sidequests you can positively ignore. I personally go after them all, but you could have guessed that already.

Sides, they just don't have the nostalgia effect that console ones do.

What do you mean with that?! Have you played Ultima or Eye of the Beholder? How old are you anyway? Nostalgia is prevalent whatever machine you choose. I still have nostalgia over my Spectrum games. Or the early PC games that were really good, that despite the technical limitations had enough of ambience and plot to stand forever in my memory. Take Budokan, for example, or Conquests of the Longbow and Conquests of Camelot.Why would only console games induce this nostalgia?

Alex

[nicco]

Day of the Tentacle

The Monkey Island series

[lichristine]

Full Legend of Zelda loyalty.

yeah, i know Ocarina is CLASSIC legendary, but...I ENTIRELY would've voted for Twilight Princess if it were there. That is a wicked wicked game.

[ail]

Day of the Tentacle

The Monkey Island series

Regretfully, Nicco, those are not RPGs. They are Graphical Adventures, and admittedly two of the best of their time.
DDOT in particular, though I never played it to the end, is famous for a great story line.

Alex