Derren Brown's Trick of the Mind

[geo_van_deaq]

Just watched the latest episode of the Derren Brow show where he trains a college student to learn a piece in two weeks without touching a note. Her performance (although an edited one) was very impressive and it kind of made me think of how much psychology goes in to piano practice, I mean I've always known it's somewhat important but I've never really though about it.

Did anyone else see it? Recently I've decided to quit film school and apply for music college but I've always had apprehension about practicing and more often then not become stress and self-conscious about my ability etc the usual, especially now since I'm taking a risk by quitting university for it.

Does anyone have advice on how to achieve a positive state of mind for practice and learning or anything along those lines.

All through her performance I was just wondering what the hell he did with her head!

[pianistimo]

i have a feeling she played piano pretty well before this point.  he was probably working th e memory side of piano playing and not the dexterity side.  i would like to know more techniques that my teacher at west chester uses.  they must be effective because he has the capability to learn a lot of music at one sitting. 

some people's parents help them along.  challenging the mind at a younger age is much simpler than waiting for college and hoping it will get better.   as i see it - these ideas (whatever they are) should be taught to 8-9 year olds and then they can practice it.  kind of like language skills. 

personally -i have lately not been worrying about analyzing all of the chord structures  - but seeing patterns on the keyboard.  this helps a lot.  also, i tell stories to myself using words that start with the note names.  most of my work at memory does come by sitting down and playing, though, so that i have a certain amount of repetition in my fingers.  however, i've been attempting not to progress so fast that i cannot take all of the memory stuff in and retain it until the next morning.  just enough so that i can practice the following morning and add to it.

ps why do you want to 'quit' film school.  that's crazy, in my book.  just take piano lessons.  everything most important to me - i've learned in piano lessons.  film is another art medium.  twould be very possible to combine the two somehow later on.  film scoring - etc. and you would know the in's and out's of the film industry.  they seem very interconnected and promising.  i hope you don't quit!  just find a piano teacher!

say you injure a finger or hand.  then what are you going to do?  (i should ask this to myself - but i don't).  realistically, though - you have to seriously analyze the economy before you decide what to major in in college.  people say 'follow your dream' - but how can you do that if the final job is a matter of luck and perseverance for the first 5-10 years.  why not have another 'career' as a double?  people can do two things at once.

[geo_van_deaq]

I've more or less decided on quitting film school because I'm not really getting any enjoyment out of it. I was thinking about it at christmas and thought it would be wise to see the year out before making any rash decisions. Nothing has really changed, to be honest I wanted to go to music college at first anyway but my high school tutors were saying I'd be better off going to film school as I was doing better in it.

It's a really difficult decision and I'm still shifting between whether or not I should do it e.g. at the time of the last post I was sure I would leave (about an hour ago). But I've always though to myself I'd be happier studying music (not just in terms of performance but also in score analysis, theory etc) I really did enjoy it in sixth form.

Sorry slightly off topic.

[pianistimo]

as i see it - why spend money on things you can learn on your own.  you can buy theory books.  basically - you take a theory course and the first thing you are told is to go and buy a $60. book when there are literally hundreds of good old ones in the library.  sure they may not be as up-to-date with computer technology - but that only means that you need to go and spend the money you save on a digital piano and some composing software.  the more you just 'do it' - the more you get really into it and faster at seeing what you cAN do with it.

if i were to do 'school' over - i'd be really picky about where i spend the money.  spend most of it on yourself on things that you can continue to use. 

as i see it - never quit.  anything.  nothing.  not even if you take a swim class and hate it.  perseverance just pays.  if you can do one thing without quitting - you can do another thing without quitting.  you can do two things at one time without quitting.

if you really must find a theory teacher asap - find a STUDENT.  ask them to tutor you in private theory lessons.  MUCH CHEAPER.  same information.  ok. - say you are on campus.  become really friendly with the best piano student you can find.  let them pay for the college tuition.  be a cheapskate.  keep on with your film stuff.  that's my advice.  practice piano as a way to relieve the stress of whatever is difficult right now in the film classes. 

don't you think it would be cool to direct AND decide what music you want in a film.  more things to manipulate.  you can manipulate the piano - the scenes - the score - the script.  it's exciting.  perhaps you and i should switch places.  as i see i t- you must learn to divide up your time and your money wisely.  (btw, quitting wastes a lot of time and money).  just one perspective.  perhaps count the number of messages that are for and against and tally them up to see which is your best 'bet.'

ps the way you wrote the title 'darren brown's trick of the mind' - was a good lead-in.  you obviously have talent with getting across ideas in a modern way.  perhaps this will be your first documentary.  a silent movie.  teacher/student - pantomining whatever they are learning.  it will be a hit with piano lovers. i am imagining right now the first lesson:  somehow - it is coming more clearly in my head.  the teacher first scans the students brain (good to know how much capacity there is in there) vicariously by simply analyzing skull type.  small head - smaller brain.  then - according to the stuffing - stuffs only the amount of knowledge that the head can accomodate without overdoing.  this is a real talent of good teachers.  to know when to quit.  ok.  so the analysis is also done by asking a few simple questions to the student.  still can be a silent film (we don't need to know the questions).   then, the teacher drags the student away from the piano kicking and screaming.  finally, the student shuts up and allows the teacher to explain.  first the rhythm is beat upon the desk with a pencil.  a few questions asked.  close-up of the score.  score is shut.  teacher looks at student.  student beats the first few bars of rhythm hesitantly.  praise.  opens book again.  teacher starts humming.  student starts humming along.  teacher demands two part humming.  shuts book.  hum again from memory.  much praise.  student smiles.  high fives.  student heads to piano.  teacher does not allow it.  come back tommorrow.  do not touch the piano.

[pianistimo]

one last thing.  we used to live in california - and our next door neighbor worked for hollywood as a pyrotechnic technician.  he make a REALLY good income just one that one little segment of work.  i think they own a ranch now with some horses.

[stevetrug]

Derren Brown is a stage magician. Like all 'magic' it is an illusion (or con), purely for entertainment. I can assure you that he did absolutely nothing to help the pianists performance. In the same way that he never had a real bullet in the gun when he performed his Russian Roulette. Hope this helps, and sorry to shatter your beliefs if you actually believed in magic 

[sevencircles]

Derren Brown is a stage magician. Like all 'magic' it is an illusion (or con), purely for entertainment. I can assure you that he did absolutely nothing to help the pianists performance.

Derren Brown is a great hynotist and hypnosis works excellent for some people.

He can´t create miracles but he can make some people much better pianists.

During hypnosis you can be  focused and learn a  lot faster and play better but for some people it´s useless since they learn just as fast the traditional way.

Hypnosis is not needed If you have good confidence and play just as well on stage as on your own.

[pseudo.naivete]

Not completely understanding what you mean by "psychology" of practicing, I'll now just make a banal note that in my case, 95% of practicing takes place off the piano. Away from the keyboard I tap the table, I concentrate on how to specifically activate the nerves without increasing tension in parts where it is not necessary, I visualize the keys, sometimes I try to transponate a passage... I would interpret that by "psychology" you meant things like attitude, motivation et cetera, but if you were wondering about the whole mental side of it, then of course it is important as your brain is also where the physical execution ultimately takes place.

Although I haven't seen the show, I would guess that somehow Derren made her "play the piano in her mind". The piano itself is just a physical object, its your brain that has to form a solid mental structure of all the relations between keys and scales and adjust your physical capabilities and limitations to those relations. I've myself had an instance where I taught myself the physical execution of a certain passage in a dream, and when I did wake up I found out that I could play through it flawlessly (as flawlessly as it was possible for me with that horrible fingering). I like to think practicing is a lot like tinkering; You figure out the essentials and the unnecessary yet natural habits/tendencies, then you take the essentials, drop everything else, and figure out ways to arrange that material (for example a certain technique beyond your current motoric ability) so that it "clicks" with the medium (being the instrument).

And there I said probably nothing of much substance, but you'll have to excuse me for I am tired and this subject would always get me carried away!

[garyjudd]

Can someone please give me the name of the piece she plays at the concert?

Thankyou.

[garyjudd]

nevermind it was: Ah, Vous dirai-je Maman, K.265

[nomis]

Not completely understanding what you mean by "psychology" of practicing, I'll now just make a banal note that in my case, 95% of practicing takes place off the piano. Away from the keyboard I tap the table, I concentrate on how to specifically activate the nerves without increasing tension in parts where it is not necessary, I visualize the keys, sometimes I try to transponate a passage... I would interpret that by "psychology" you meant things like attitude, motivation et cetera, but if you were wondering about the whole mental side of it, then of course it is important as your brain is also where the physical execution ultimately takes place.

Although I haven't seen the show, I would guess that somehow Derren made her "play the piano in her mind". The piano itself is just a physical object, its your brain that has to form a solid mental structure of all the relations between keys and scales and adjust your physical capabilities and limitations to those relations. I've myself had an instance where I taught myself the physical execution of a certain passage in a dream, and when I did wake up I found out that I could play through it flawlessly (as flawlessly as it was possible for me with that horrible fingering). I like to think practicing is a lot like tinkering; You figure out the essentials and the unnecessary yet natural habits/tendencies, then you take the essentials, drop everything else, and figure out ways to arrange that material (for example a certain technique beyond your current motoric ability) so that it "clicks" with the medium (being the instrument).

And there I said probably nothing of much substance, but you'll have to excuse me for I am tired and this subject would always get me carried away!

Brown made her forget all that she had been taught, and restored her excitement that she had for the piano when she was 7 years old. She thought that she had only been playing the piano for two weeks before her performance at Wigmore hall! Brown essentially removed all the clutter that she accumulated from all her learning, various psychological blocks, and this allowed her to become more involved with the music, rather than fretting about various articulations and technical problems during performance.

On a side note, I thought she was very attractive. 

[stevetrug]

Derren Brown is a great hynotist and hypnosis works excellent for some people.

He can´t create miracles but he can make some people much better pianists.

During hypnosis you can be  focused and learn a  lot faster and play better but for some people it´s useless since they learn just as fast the traditional way.

Hypnosis is not needed If you have good confidence and play just as well on stage as on your own.

I hope you don't also believe that he can read people's minds, or that he actually ever had a live round of ammunition in the pistol when he performed the russian roulette gag? Please!! 

[rc]

I haven't seen the show...  But a few thoughts, based on limited experience:

1)  the mind plays a very strong part of playing music.  I believe the difference between progress and frustration is in the mindset.

2)  Hypnosis is letting somebody else control your mind, rather than yourself, which in the longrun is a weakness.  It may have its place, but for most it's the easy way out, rather than developing our own strength.

[jas]

I remember watching a programme a few years ago about how much the mind is involved in things like this, and a bloke did an experiment with a gymnast, to see if she could improve her technique by just running through the move over and over again in her head. There was definitely an improvement by the end of it - it was much more controlled.

I suppose with things where you need a really fine degree of physical control, whether it be playing a complicated piece of music or doing a crazy upside-down back-to-front twisty-turny thing ten feet in the air, you can't necessarily rely purely on your body to manoeuvre itself around without strengthening the passages in your brain that control it, because you often find that if you try to engage your brain too much while you're actually doing it, you make an arse of it. I have vague memories from studying human biology at school that it's something to do with electrical signals jumping synapses in the brain. Or something.

But to be honest, I really don't think I'd have the patience to sit down and think my way through a piece of music. I'd rather just go the long slog at the piano.

Jas

[stevetrug]

There's a great book called the Inner Game of Music. It's a reworking of a system called the inner game of tennis. It's basically about accessing that mental zone when everything is going perfectly, although you are in a trance like state. It's that plce when you are not consciously thinking about what you are doing, yet you are doing it brilliantly. We sometimes snap ourselves out of this state by noticing it, then make a mistake. The book teaches you how to get there and stay there, in a nut shell.
It's on Amazon, or here's the author's site with links to it https://www.innergameofmusic.com/
enjoy.
BTW Jas, hypnosis is not about someone controlling you. If used properly, it's about releasing blocks to progress which you have created in your own mind. The hypnotist should simply be a facilitator. Hypnosis can't make you stronger, or play better, it simply removes some of the things which inhibit you performing at your optimum level. If that makes sense.

[pianistimo]

i consciously will my playing to God.  it makes me relax and not worry.  also, i feel this meditative state - but i don't allow just anyone access to it.  i mean - you can literally will yourself to an unknown entity.