Cziffra Discussion

[pita bread]

Why not put your ondine on and then say stuff like that?? Koji's and elevateme's ondines are good. But why the hell you comparing them? Koji is massivly older, and has studied at Curtis, elevateme was like 15 or summit. and has not been to curtis. So please post yours and then I'll respect you view.

So far, you have not said one thing that has made me respect your views.

My own playing is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

[elevateme_returns]

then don't   

[elevateme_returns]

No, there is none who have replicated his technical facility, raw bravura, and spontanious colour in this piece.

in your opinion, in order for that statement to be true you need to have heard every single performance, live and recording of grande galope chromatique. have you?

[pita bread]

in your opinion, in order for that statement to be true you need to have heard every single performance, live and recording of grande galope chromatique. have you?

You know, considering his obsession with speed, I wouldn't be so quick to doubt that.

[opus10no2]

in your opinion, in order for that statement to be true you need to have heard every single performance, live and recording of grande galope chromatique. have you?

Yes b!tch, yes.

[elevateme_returns]

really? you havent heard my friend's, i know that much. therefore you havent heard everyone, and until now cziffras is only the best you've heard, not the best ever

[opus10no2]

Stop trying to be a smart @$$, it doesn't suit you.

[pita bread]

Stop trying to be a smart @$$, it doesn't suit you.

Ahahaha - well said.

[ramseytheii]

Listen to his Dante, his mephisto waltz, his Schumann Carnaval, his rach 2, all are filled with so much expression and passion, he is one of those who seems to be able to truly reproduce exactly what he feels in the music.

And Liszt transcendental etudes!  My favorite!

Walter Ramsey

[elevateme_returns]

Stop trying to be a smart @$$, it doesn't suit you.

"eeeuh stop trying to be a smart ass, it doe-" shut the hell up you spend all your life on *** msn and pianostreet. ive never ever seen you offline on msn

[elevateme_returns]

So far, you have not said one thing that has made me respect your views.

My own playing is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

so is mine! but you still brought it up! you said "lets put elevateme's ondine against koji's".

[opus10no2]

"eeeuh stop trying to be a smart ass, it doe-" shut the hell up you spend all your life on *** msn and pianostreet. ive never ever seen you offline on msn

It's called 'leaving a computer online while doing other things'.

What is this? Douche-o-rama week on PS?

[soliloquy]

franzliszt2 seems to hold dearly some very common misconceptions about Cziffra that many young beginners do


That being that Cziffra is only a technical workhorse. I think that franzliszt2 has most likely only heard Cziffra playing the pieces that he is usually known for, which are... technical showpieces.  Perhaps if franz broadened his listening of Cziffra he would find that there is more to his playing than just speed and wikid octz.


While I randomly don't like Cziffra as much as a lot of people do it is pretty idiotic to say that he plays unmusically.  And just as a side note, not sure why everyone thinks Cziffra has the best octaves.

[opus10no2]

Everyone doesn't think that, but the midsection of his eroica video is suffice to explain why he is renowned for his prowess 

[JP]

My fav pianist is Cziffra.

I also very much like the pianist elevateme_returns named.

Some of my Zif favorites are :
Après une lecture de Dante.
Any baroque (the style he takes on for these couldnt be better suited)
Spanish Rhapsody (My other fav is Gilels)
Schumann - Fantasiestücke
Liszt polonaise 1&2
His improvs, especially those on classical themes.


Just to name a few..
 

[pita bread]

so is mine! but you still brought it up! you said "lets put elevateme's ondine against koji's".

That's 'cause you talk like some cocky hot shot who knows it all.

[vlhorowitz]

What's not to like about Cziffra ??

Not only could the man play anything at any speed, and with emotional conviction - the amazing story of his life only added to the color of his playing; he was probably the closest thing to an Art Tatum in our field as well. But more than this, his recordings show that he was a much more powerful artist than even Backhaus (in my opinion). I personally love his Islamey, the Liszt transc. etudes, even his Mendelssohn ! His Chopin etude op. 10 no. 4 is something which makes me shake my head in disbelief...

If Cziffra were still alive today, we'd only be too lucky to hear a true pianistic genius; he figured everything out, and yet, had more than what many pianists-combined had to offer. There's only so much damned Lang Lang, Brendel, and Pogorelich I can take; and yet, here we have people saying that Cziffra was rather ordinary, just fast.

Ridiculous...

[pseudo.naivete]

Hilarious thread.

I second koji. Cziffra is first and foremost an artist of exceptionally refined taste, besides being extremely capable technically. Although he sometimes "bangs" so hard my ears hurt (just the same problem I have with Horowitz, for whom I also have the greatest respect), it quickly becomes obvious that the man *understood* what he played. He knows how to build excitement and then release it, his musical expression is unbelievably manipulative to at least my emotions, not in the least bit the "robot" some people make him out to be (by their unfounded arguments).

[opus10no2]

The 'banging' concept is simply a word for playing very loud...using greatesonorous capabilities of the instrument.

Too few people know that with recorded technology it is difficult to capture the refined differences between FFF , FFFF and FFFFF etc, with the grades in between.

[pseudo.naivete]

The 'banging' concept is simply a word for playing very loud...using greatesonorous capabilities of the instrument.

Too few people know that with recorded technology it is difficult to capture the refined differences between FFF , FFFF and FFFFF etc, with the grades in between.

Yes I'm sure you're right about that. I get the feeling that the loudest voices from the piano "flatten" when processed through the recording equipment. I don't know if this has to do with the electronics of the microphone etc. or some fundamental flaws in post-processing routines, but Cziffra's FFFFFFFFFFFF's often kill the *tone* itself. But I'm confident it would sound totally different if heard live, coming from a grand piano in a room with good spacey acoustics (so the sound doesn't kick back to break the tone).

Another thing worth noting is that I'm relatively easily irritated and distracted by intense visual or auditory stimuli, so I react to some of Cziffra's (among others') more volume-wise intensive playing negatively (I could turn the volume down, but as we both know Cziffra uses the dynamic range quite effectively to his advantage, so I'd have to keep adjusting it). I went to see that one Harry Potter movie with my sister and parents but I jumped off my seat and walked out extremely pissed off because I couldn't take all the annoying splishysplashyflashydashy & beyond the pain threshold NOISE that was so violently fired at my senses. I mean the commercials. Those cursed commercials before the actual movie. Oh well, pottershmotter whatever.

[franzliszt2]

franzliszt2 seems to hold dearly some very common misconceptions about Cziffra that many young beginners do


That being that Cziffra is only a technical workhorse. I think that franzliszt2 has most likely only heard Cziffra playing the pieces that he is usually known for, which are... technical showpieces.  Perhaps if franz broadened his listening of Cziffra he would find that there is more to his playing than just speed and wikid octz.


While I randomly don't like Cziffra as much as a lot of people do it is pretty idiotic to say that he plays unmusically.  And just as a side note, not sure why everyone thinks Cziffra has the best octaves.

Or perhaps franzliszt2 just doesn't like his playing?? Is that a crime? I've given valid reasons for not liking his playing, and so far everyone has justified my reasons for hating his playing. His fine musicality in pieces such as Islamey, Liszt rhapsody's (amazing pieces of music, I mean come on, who needs Beethoven op106 when you have islamey) Proves my point exactly!! His Liszt sonata will always stand in my mind as riddiculous.

I discussed this yesterday with a very fine pianist who I respect greatly, and he likes Cziffra. He's the only person who has given me some good points on him. And he totally agreed with me, and we decided that we were just different pianists, which we are. So  mr soliliquy I ask you to giove me some decent points about his fine musical playing, at least then I give you permission to try and insult me.

[opus10no2]

hate: the emotion of hate; a feeling of dislike so strong that it demands action

I don't know how anyone could really hate someone's playing.

Feeling dislike..yes, but hatred? you have issues.

[franzliszt2]

If he was the only pianist , I would not want to play the piano.  I don't find his playing satisfying in anyway. It has me on the edge of my seat, but only because I want to get up and leave the room. I cannot stand his playing, I would not pay to see him, and I am annoyed I spent so much money when I went out and bought everything they had of him in HMV.

How don't you know how anyone can really hate peoples playing? Have you not got musical opinions of your own? Most pianists annoy me, and I know that I am a total snob, and that that is an awful thing to have, but I play piano for MYSELF and I do what I believe in,a nd since most pianists do what they believe in, and if I don't believe in that, I dislike the playing. If I don't believe it, and they do what they want with conviction, and sensibly, I'll like them.

Why does Cziffra speed up in gnomenriegen repeated notes? That spoils the whole menacing nature of the section, and replaces it with WOW look at those repeated notes, which I'm sure people who have played the piece, will agree that the passage ios easier fast.

[opus10no2]

Mr. Douche, I have strong love for many pianists' playing, but not hatred, hatred is a word which to me, implies the need to decry and disrespect the pianist and their playing.

Cziffra's artistic choices are his own, if you don't like them, that is absolutely fine, but it is foolish to question the man behind those choices. Do you know anything about his life?

[soliloquy]

Everyone doesn't think that, but the midsection of his eroica video is suffice to explain why he is renowned for his prowess 

Ahaha but I'm sure we can agree that the video of young Pletnev on the Mephisto and Katsaris on the Bach trans are equally if not more terrifying in their 8vian ways

[opus10no2]

Not quite, obzerv the fact the octaves are LH.

Link me to the pletnev and I shall summon my critical wisdom.

[soliloquy]

Not quite, obzerv the fact the octaves are LH.

Link me to the pletnev and I shall summon my critical wisdom.

this zheeyat is juzt a bit rare, n vud requiah a trade of zum zort

[JP]

Katsaris: YES (very much so!)
Pletnev: NO

 

[elevateme_returns]

It's called 'leaving a computer online while doing other things'.

What is this? Douche-o-rama week on PS?

my arse. you blatantly get up to go and eat. then maybe watch tv. then perhaps more tv. then pc.

[elevateme_returns]

That's 'cause you talk like some cocky hot shot who knows it all.

therefore let's "put my ondine against koji's". ...  what, did you expect me to say that mine was better than his?? hahahahahahaha

[opus10no2]

my arse. you blatantly get up to go and eat. then maybe watch tv. then perhaps more tv. then pc.

You're right, I eat in a very blatant way.

[rob47]

im listening to Cziffra's Legend no. 2 right now and damn! it is wicked-tits for sure!

reading fl2/elevateme comments while listening to this suggests they have never listened to this perf

also i have a feeling this thread is going the way of the "Gavrillov" thread from a few months ago.

[opus10no2]

Rob, your post serves an unknown purpose, one we may not know now, but will know in years to come.
It foreshadows the dawning of a new age, and one that I would gladly accompany you in, as long as you bring copious amounts of KY jello for your big fello down bello.

[vlhorowitz]

At the end of the day, there will always be idiots among us. People didn't give a damn for Schubert, Medtner, and countless others. People rioted at the sounds of Schonberg in this century (ok, last). I'm sure that young critic who criticized Liszt is now known for "having an opinion", as if standing alone automatically should be credited. In the same way, it's quite absurd that someone would criticize Cziffra as being ordinary. Most people in this forum would gladly listen to Cziffra play "chopsticks" with his @$$. The man was a genius of the piano.

[franzliszt2]

im listening to Cziffra's Legend no. 2 right now and damn! it is wicked-tits for sure!

reading fl2/elevateme comments while listening to this suggests they have never listened to this perf

also i have a feeling this thread is going the way of the "Gavrillov" thread from a few months ago.

Don't you read my posts....I OWN the entire Cziffra recordings!!!! Which implies I have listened to it. You can kind of tell the emotional value of the piece when you describe it as "wicked off it's tits"

[rob47]

Don't you read my posts....I OWN the entire Cziffra recordings!!!! Which implies I have listened to it. You can kind of tell the emotional value of the piece when you describe it as "wicked off it's tits"

Sorry dood. i guess i didnt read your posts than. but do you like that particular recording?

on an unrelated note i challenge you to a chopin 3rd scherzo duel

[franzliszt2]

No I'm not prepared to "duel"

I don't remember much of his performance of the piece, which means I didn't like it when I heard it, otherwise I would have remembered it. It's not as bad as his liszt sonata though

[rob47]

darn

so then i donwloaded this picture for nothing? :



 

[gruffalo]

I'm not going to attempt to describe Cziffra's playing in words. but here is a very basic explanation of why i like him:

lack of colour?

Liszt- Jeux d'eau a la villa d'Este:

https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=DA44E8631233BA42

lack of musicality and spiritual depth?

Liszt - Dante Sonata:

https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=83E3D4F03D603E6C

Both are from his live Concert in Torino (1959)

No other Jeux d'eau has excited me both musically and technically. he has the finest portrayal of these beautiful fountains, and his technical demonstration of  the piece is just like icing on the cake for me. but i observed the musicality first. i actually had to hold my breath for large periods of time when listening to this, mostly the quiet watery parts. the dante again shows the best of both, spirituality and technique. Cziffra brings Liszt to life, not just through fast octaves, but also through great musical ideas. Another example of his greatness is the Liszt 1st Concerto. The flashy show off stuff sounds great and also the slow beautiful parts sound perfectly crafted and just.. beautiful really.

to dislike his playing is understandable. to hate and also to disrespect him and his playing is uncalled for. if he is unmusical, how come his playing is so unique? i haven't heard anyone like him. he is an astounding musician, who i guess got carried away with showing off a bit. but there are still fine examples out there of fine playing. GGC isnt supposed to be fine musical playing. this is obvious in the composition itself.

[elevateme_returns]

It's called 'leaving a computer online while doing other things'.

What is this? Douche-o-rama week on PS?

what

[opus10no2]

https://www.gethandbag.com/images/149-von-douche.gif

[pseudo.naivete]

I wonder what would qualify as a good argument for Cziffra's artistry to franzliszt2, since he seems to dismiss them all and tries to give the impression that he's got all those "experts" on his side. I on the other hand have understood that its mainly critics who either bash or praise Cziffra, there's always something to Cziffra's playing that seems to divide the opinion into extremes. I also completely agree with gruffalo about Cziffra bringing Liszt to life, he definitely didn't get called the reincarnation of Liszt (regarding performance) for nothing.

[pita bread]

I don't think anything will convince franzliszt2 and elevateme of Cziffra's artistry. They're too dogmatic in their own beliefs.

Oh well, their loss.

[ian pace]

Cziffra was good but I am better. Ian Pace

[thalbergmad]

possibly imposter, but who knows?

Thal

[steinwaymodeld]

he got all his recordings from HMV (and he think that's a reliable source of good music), that was the problem.

Also an indicator of his n00bness.

[dnephi]

Cziffra was good but I am better. Ian Pace

Aha.

I'm better too.  I'm A. Benedetti Michelangeli.

[opus10no2]

https://inkpot.com/classical/brahmscziffra.html

This is probably his most representative album, it shows his greatest genius.

[pita bread]

Haha, respect the jawline on that CD cover

::superman::

[elevateme_returns]

https://www.gethandbag.com/images/149-von-douche.gif

are you trying to be funny or cool? you just look like a bellend