Am I the only one here teaching traditionally ?

[lallasvensson]

Hello!
when i read posts on this forum, it seems to me that most "teachers" are looking for new ways to "entertain" their pupils.

I teach the way i was taught:
each lesson consists of 1 major scale, 1 minor scale, arpeggios, one Bach, one Czerny, 1 viennese classical sonata, 1 romantic (Russian or Schumann, Chopin...) or 1 French.

I scold my students if they havent practised. They all obey and make progress this way.

[Hmoll]

From your other posts it seems like you are not a professional teacher - I think you posted in another thread that you're too busy to schedule set times for your students. There are some professional teachers who post here - Bernhard, Minismusic, for example. They have a wealth of experience, and good advice. I don't think they are in the business of "entertaining" their students. Instead they seem to take a thoughtful approach to teaching piano.

I've done some teaching, but am not a professional teacher. I don’t view your description of your teaching as particularly traditional. It is lacking in some areas. Why don't you teach theory, ear training, triads, cadences in all keys? Why don't you teach music after the Romantic era? How do you motivate students aside from scolding them and making them "obey" you? How do you assess each of your students' personalities, and evaluate each of their abilities in order to tailor your work with them individually? How do you impart your joy and love of music to your students?

Most importantly, and aside from obeying and progress today, how will your students look back on their piano lessons 20 years from now?

[lallasvensson]

I am a professional teacher. I am busy with playing as well which prevents me from setting fixed time but i am careful about seeing my students once or twice a week.
I agree about Bernhard, his posts are very interesting and rich of experience.
But there are plenty of posts just talking about how fun everything should always be and this puts me off. I practised hours, had lessons with very good and demanding teachers and what is fun now is that i can live as a professional artist but the process itself is far from being fun, come on! It does not mean that my students dont like my lessons. I believe they like coming because they learn something and they dont have fun only.
In my list of what i am teaching, i was of course restrictive, just to give a short idea. I teach lots of other things, from Lully to Ligeti, and up to the students if they are enough advanced.

[lallasvensson]

To Hmoll again:
about ear training. Of course this is a very very big part of my teaching especially for very young students. at least half of the lesson time.
But i usually require them  to have theory lessons on the side when they get older as this is the way i was trained. 2 solfege and 2 piano lessons a week, and sight reading lesson.
I am not worried about the fact that my students enjoy my lessons. They do since they recommend me often their friends. But anyway i am not doing this job to be liked by them. I dont want to be involved in any kind of affective relationships with my pupils, even the very young ones.

[Hmoll]

Lallasvensson,

Thanks for your response. Where do you teach? In the US kids get very little real theory in school, a lot of that is left to private teachers.

Sorry for assuming you were not a professional teacher, it had nothing to do with the content of what you posted, but just that one statement.

I agree with instilling work ethic and discipline in students. One of the most positive "take-aways" from music lessons should be the recognition that you cannot obtain results without consistent work.

It is not all fun, but certainly joy in learning should be a part of the process as well.  Another important consideration is the fact that a very small percentage of anyones students - unless they teach at a conservatory - will become professional musicians, so that also colors ones approach. That is not to say that you still should not strive for excellence and the living up to potential for each student.

[minsmusic]

And what exactly is WRONG with having FUN in a piano lesson? My god woman, most of us only live till we're about 70 years old!  That's 70 years on this planet, and that's it!  Then we're dead.  That's our life, over and done with. Kids have to deal with divorced parents, the worry of other kids coming to school with a gun, whether or not their priest is going to be a little too nice to them, some bigger kid is bullying them at school, some other kid won't talk to them because their clothes aren't cool, their sister's pregnant at sixteen, another has decided to become a witch, they're given nintendo, and PIANO LESSONS instead of time with their parents because their parents are out working so they can afford to give them nintendo and piano lessons, because that's what their parents think are important.
Watch the news one night and tell me how important it is for a child to be SCOLDED because they haven't practised some stupid instrument!  Yeah, good on you, that's just what young kids need, some other adult telling them off, crying at piano lessons.  
You know what, I couldn't care less if one of my students never learnt a classical piece of music.  What a care about is helping nurture a curiosity, and analytical mind, the ability to teach themselves ANY PIECE they want to learn, a love of people which just so happens to include the love of music - one of the best things in life, and the love of playing a piano.  BUT IT'S NOT A DO OR DIE MATTER!
Why am I yelling?  Because so many people on this forum take the study of piano SSOOOOOO seriously.
We teach little human beings!  They deserve respect, consideration, patience and YES kids DESERVE to have FUN!  
And what is YOUR definition of fun, and more importantly, what do you think MY definition of fun is?  I bet you  get it wrong.  ANd why do you care anyway?
What makes you so convinced teaching 'traditionally' is so crash hot anyway?
My entire career is dedicated to the TEACHING of music to PEOPLE.   I LOVE music, I LOVE the piano I LOVE people - and if I ever made one of my pupils CRY I would sit down and rethink what I am doing WRONG.
You're a PIANO teacher for crying out loud, NOTHING you do will ever result in saving somebody's life, so stop taking your position so seriously.  And that goes for all you piano teachers who scoff at the word FUN.
Get a life. Teaching is not just a way to make money.

[minsmusic]

I believe they like coming because they learn something and they dont have fun only.

How rude of you to assume that the other teachers who say FUN is important teach nothing else!
I believe for young children FUN is the best teaching TOOL available.
Here's an overview of what can be taught while the child is having FUN
1. Recognition of intervals, degrees, singing the higher lower or middle note in a harmonic chord.
2. Analysing, recognising, discussing, playing and explaing 'sections' of their piece using musical and very often Italian terms (my kids don't speak Italian by the way).
3. Understanding time signatures and how and why they work, key signatures and how and why they work, scale formulaes, both major and minor - and how to work out any scale they want without having to look it up in a book.
4.  Scales, hands together, similar, contrary motion, chromatic - yes I'm talking at the preliminary level, arpeggios, however many octaves and positions you want to include.
5.  Music history, when were the eras, what was life like in these eras,   who were the composers, how were they employed, how did they live; what Purcell wrote and why we should care etc
6. Musical appreciation; developing an ear, and an opinion on what they like based on WHY.
7. Sight reading.
8. Aural skills.
9. Interpretation
10. Composition
11. Improvisation
12. Performing
13. How to practise
14. Setting goals; long term and short term
15. Organising time, self disciplin, self motivation, pride in piano accomplishment, detection of weakness and strength, implementation of strategies.
16. Enrolling, attending and receiving distinctions in music exams having only six months of lessons.

All this can be accomplished while the child is giggling happily and you are laughing and living longer for it.

I've taught in both primary school and high school before becoming a private music teacher.  From the age of 9, I've wanted to be a teacher.
I did four years at Uni to be qualified specifically as a teacher, not a performer.  I give my time, my energy, my priority to my students. I know HOW to teach because I've been taught in THAT area, and I received the highest marks in all subjects.  So rest assured, when students come to me, their parents may take me seriously. Their kids will learn and progress more rapidly than any other teacher in my area (I know this because I have been told by MANY people, and I tend to believe them because even I'm impressed with the results my kids get for their music exams).  AND they had LOTS of fun in the process. I have lots of fun in the process.  
Do not assume any less from the other piano teachers who also confess that for them music and teaching is FUN.
The fact that you are annoyed at this is a sign of either jealousy or arrogance.

[Chitch]

Thank you, mins! I hate "teachers" on this board who try and act like complete tight asses to 4 and 5 year olds. For all you know the kids may have wanted to take lessons because they thought it might be fun, well, way to ruin the experience for them. Live with the fact that you stopped a potentially great futur pianist from ever touching a piano again. God, I can only imagine watching the look on your students' faces when they leave their lesson:
Mom says: Did you have fun today?
Little Boy/Girl says: Fun wasn't in the lesson plan this week.
Mom says: Oh, ok, maybe next time
Little Boy/Girl: Yea, she's bound to start letting me have fun any minute.
Tight Ass Piano teacher says: Fun   What art thou?

[deirpg]

You know, so many new students come to me because their old teacher turned them completely off of music.  In my opinion, part of my job is to make music fun.  I think if more teachers incorporated a bit more fun into lessons, more children would play and love it.  What's the harm in injecting some fun into piano?

[lallasvensson]

it is very good if less motivated students go to worse teachers.
My opinion is that if your love for music is firm enough, you should be able to stand a very demanding and strict teaching.

[Hmoll]

it is very good if less motivated students go to worse teachers.
My opinion is that if your love for music is firm enough, you should be able to stand a very demanding and strict teaching.

Again, you are equating teachers who are able to motivate students, and incororate fun and joy into their teaching with lack of quality. That is simply not true.

Everything you describe about your methods of teaching suggests a lack of interaction with, interest in, and compassion for your students. What you describe is simply presenting the material, sending the student on their way, and listening to it next week.  The main motivating factor for your students seems to be fear of being scolded by you.
Also, the idea that there must be something wrong if any enjoyment or fun is experienced deems to be a recurring - and disturbing -  subtext to everything you post.

Excellent piano playing takes a lot of practice, dedication, and discipline, as you have posted. Likewise, Excellent piano teaching also takes careful study, dedication, creativity, flexibility, knowledge, and wisdom.

[lallasvensson]

Yes this is the way i teach, i give out pieces that i choose and listen to them  the following week.
This is exactly the way i was taught in Paris and Moscow and it worked.
I wanted to be a little provocative to see whether i was the only traditional teacher. Obviously i am and i think it s quite sad that the tradition is vanishing and the level getting lower and lower.
Anyway, dont believe i am a horrible cold teacher. All my pupils get hugs, birthday presents, i get invited at their home, do ice skating with them etc. BUT: the lesson time is 100% my time in the sense that I speak, I ask, they play and repeat over and over.

When i feel a lack of motivation in some students i actually encourage their mum to seek a fun teacher instead, less demanding. I also think this kind of "teacher" fits better some less motivated students.

[minsmusic]

I think it might be a good idea to include explanations of what we perceive to be fun.  

It is something that provides amusement or enjoyment. It does NOT REPLACE anything. It adds.

Scrubbing toilets is hard work.  Put on your favourite music you love and voila! It becomes more FUN.

Take note.  You are STILL scrubbing toilets.  You are STILL working hard.  The result is STILL the same.  Only, you have put MORE effort into the task, because you have
1. Creative enough to think of a way to make the task more enjoyable
2. You walked to your CD player
3.  You chose the CD
4.  You pulled it out of its case.
5. You put the CD into the player
6.  You pressed the 'play button'
7.  Then you went and scrubbed the toilets - probably BETTER than you would have because the task is now LESS of a horrible chore. Why?  You have ADDED an element of enjoyment.

[minsmusic]

it is very good if less motivated students go to worse teachers.
.

[lallasvensson]

yes yes yes do you think i am totally stupid that  i dont understand that ??
i was provocative in my post because of the very strong emphasis that so many teachers on this forum put on the fact that everything has to be fun all the time.
Instead of talking seriously of what it needs to train pupils to become good pianists.

[minsmusic]

... a very demanding and strict teaching.

Why are you convinced that a teacher cannot be demanding and strict while still having fun.  Do you have some concept that these teachers just let their kids run around the studio naked setting fire to piano?

You have offended many teachers on this forum, not by criticising them for using fun as a teaching tool, that's fine, criticise all you like, you don't have to have any fun during your lesson at all, nor does your student (that would include smiling lalla - because smiling is an idication someone is having fun), but you have NO right ASSUMING their efforts/results and teaching methods are in any way inferior because you take a different view.  You don't even know these people lalla, you haven't met their students, you haven't sat in one of their classes - you don't know what you're talking about, and THAT is what is offensive.

People come to these forums to look for ideas, exchange experiecnes and even learn something new they can implement in their teaching.  They do not log in to get insulted and put down by somebody they haven't even met.   That's what you have done.  If you  continue doing this,  I'll be surprised if anyone wants to interact with you at all.  I hope people prove me wrong, because EVERYBODY deserves encouragement and support from this forum.  That is its purpose.   Of course teachers will not agree with everything other teachers do - and why should they?  But to pass judgement, and rate something you don't even have the evidence of is going to make people frazzled, angry, defensive and lash out.  If that's what you're after, then you're doing a good job.  If that's NOT your intention, then by all means, please give your opinions and personal experiecnes, but there's no need to insult someone's chosen career.  

[minsmusic]

yes yes yes do you think i am totally stupid that  i dont understand that ??

.

Yes lalla, I'm afraid I did think that.  Your posts 'suggested it'.  See how wrong it is to make assumptions?

[lallasvensson]

You have been literally yelling at me in many posts and now you are posing yourself as a victim of my insulting comments ??

I have no clue about your ability to teach and play but yes i become very suspicious when i can read that you could not care less about your pupils not being to be able to play anything.

[minsmusic]

You have been literally yelling at me in many posts and now you are posing yourself as a victim of my insulting comments ??

not care less about your pupils not being to be able to play anything.

Oh dear lalla, if you're going to take the time to read posts, read them correctly.  The more you write, the more you give me no other choice than to make my own assumptions about you - you're either stupid, or you're too upset to see clearly.  I said classical, not anything.  I've also written about students in exams.  Do you think they just sit there and pick their nose?  
And what exactly have you been reading?  Read posts in other forums too, because I did not get the same impression as you, that's WHY I started the fun thread.

If you deliberately insult me or one of these other teachers by making ludicrous assumptions, then I will yell at you again.  Or ignore you.  Depends on my mood.

[lallasvensson]

You are the one insulting me constantly.

Yes, i understood you meant classical.
This doesnt alter my statement by any means, on the opposite.

I thought i had found a serious forum about serious piano teaching. I see that "teachers" are just teaching Titanic or whatever stupid pieces to teenagers who cant cut their nails and to children who cant accept to do anything without fun. YOu are probably all based in the US, arent you ?

[minsmusic]

I'm in Australia.
I apologise for insulting you.  No one deserves to be insulted.  
I don't wish to carry this conversation with you any further.  
All the best to you with your teaching and performing lalla.  
Jenny

[lallasvensson]

Good. Sleeping time out here.
Anyway sorry if you felt insulted.

[comme_le_vent]

scold students if they dont practice?
you are being very foolish and insensetive there.
if they havent practiced it should be in your interest to find out why, and if they do practice - it should NEVER because they feel they have to or theyll get scolded, it should be because they themselves want to make progress.

[anda]

how can you find the time in only one hour (i presume you have one hour lessons) to do all this?

and also, do you have beginner students? and if you do, how do you find this way the time to teach them how to practice?

based on my experience (which obviously isn't as large as yours), it takes many hours of practicing with the student before s/he learns how to practice individually - and that is very important, as i see it.

also, in order to do all you said - ear education, scales, arpeggios, 2-3 studies, pre-classic work, classic work, romantic work, modern work, i need 4 one-hour classes a week (one for technique - different exercises i make up as we go, scales, arpegios, chords, studies, one for the preclassic and classic works, one for the romantic and modern work and one for theory).

so, my question is - how do you do all this in such a short time?

as for the fun in classes - i was taught by different teachers who studied all over europe (i have studied in various european schools myself), so i'm familiar with the french, the russian and the german school, and i definitely prefer the russian psychological approach. i'm a very tough teacher - i demand very much, i'm never satisfied, i always ask the student for more than s/he can do. but they don't realize this as long as say everything with a smile and a joke and i say "i know this is very difficult, i never said this is easy, but i know you're a very special kid and you can do it" or (taking advantage on the fact that thay love me) "i would be soooo happy if you would do this..." - covering the sour pill with sugar stops them from realizing how bad you really are

this is how i work - i don't know (i couldn't see from your previous posts) how you do it, so i would appreciate if you could explain it more detailed (i'm here to learn about teaching - i'm learning as we go )

[lallasvensson]

thank you for your post, which comforts me in the idea that European teachers are more serious than piano teachers in other parts of the world.
So, out of 1 hour time, i spend at least 20 minutes on pure technical work.
Then of course i dont have time to go through all the pieces as deeply each time. I want to listen all of them but usually there is time to do a very deep work on only 1 or 2 of them. And if i select a long Mozart piece, i will select a short BAch and vice versa.
About theory, indeed i dont have time for that. If parents have problems finding a teacher, i accept to organize some ad hocs lessons according to the needs. For example, i have a pupil who is totally ignorant about rhythm so i gave her some homework last week and will chekc on Saturday during the lesson. If she failed, i will probably hold her one extra hour and work seriously with her, and note that i dont ask for extra payments when this kind of emergency cases occurs.
With beginner students, they usually understand already after 3-4 months how lessons are and will always be organized. They have to prepare a piece alone at home, and come to my class, play it for me and I correct it. Simple. I prefer beginners to transfer students as all the pupils who learnt with me have very good position and hands - much more difficult to change on transfer students if they are older than say 10.
Of course there are many exceptions to what i describe as generalities.

[rebecca]

lallasvensson, you are not the only one who teaches the way you teach.  A Russian teacher in the studio where I teach does the exact same thing: lesson twice a week, scales/arpeggios, Czerny, Bach, etc. and theory on the side.  Most of her students are outstanding and win many competitions.  

Unfortunately, not every kids take her way of teaching.  I just recently took over one of her students.  The mother told me that her son lost the interest in playing piano because of the way that the teacher teaches and the pieces that he plays.   I don't know how many more students of hers quit learning piano because of the same reason, but still many many students love studying with her.  Seeing her students' unbelieable achievement on the stage, I actually am very curious about how she does it with restrict and so called "not-fun-at-all" teaching method.

What I am trying to say here is--There are always customers out there who like the product you sell as long as you can prove that the product is useful and worth buying!

- Rebecca

[Greg_Fodrea]

Am I the only American piano instructor feeling insulted by the comment that "...European teachers are more serious than piano teachers in other parts of the world..."?  I know I'm not alone in my indignation over the assertion that having fun with students equates to poor quality of instruction.

I'm extremely surprised at the vehemence with which lallasvensson defends her original assertions in the face of the excellent rebuttals posted by others.  Lalla, your definition of "Traditional" needs some revision...perhaps to "Antiquated."  I was taught from the age of 6 by teachers who shared your philosophies, and I hated much of it.  I'm grateful that I stuck with it, but many children do not.

Modern learning theory teaches us that "fun" learning is far more powerful than "rote" learning and strict discipline.  The brain retains better when it is actively engaged and interested in (dare I say enjoying?) the topic.

Does that mean I don't get tough with students?  Of course not!  Does that mean my students aren't required to learn scales, chords, arpeggios, cadences, chord progressions, pattern recognition, intervals (by sight, touch, and sound), and all styles of music?  Quite the contrary - these are the foundation of my teaching.  And my students successfully compete, sit for exams, and a few now perform professionally.

Having fun does not mean sacrificing quality or discipline.  The power of positive motivation is infinitely more effective than "scolding," and we would all do well to be a little more open-minded to the tremendous advances made in the field of learning theory.  I applaud the "progressive" instructors out there, and hope - for the sake of piano students everywhere - that we become the majority.

[Lee]

Why am I yelling?  Because so many people on this forum take the study of piano SSOOOOOO seriously.
.

Really?  from what I've read so far, there's only one or two that actually know anything about the 'study' of piano.  A lot seem to be able to play some pretty impressive repertoire but when one guys actually gives a decent answer - one that should be known by teachers anyway, people on this forum go "oooh, you're so clever!"  and I'm including the teachers!

Maybe the teachers are having a little too much "fun" and forgettting to teach THEORY.  

[Lee]

Am I the only American piano instructor feeling insulted by the comment that "...European teachers are more serious than piano teachers in other parts of the world..."?  ,
.

The only guy that seems to be answering all the so called 'tricky' musical questions is from Britain.  What does that say?

[Hmoll]

Really?  from what I've read so far, there's only one or two that actually know anything about the 'study' of piano.  A lot seem to be able to play some pretty impressive repertoire but when one guys actually gives a decent answer - one that should be known by teachers anyway, people on this forum go "oooh, you're so clever!"  and I'm including the teachers!

Maybe the teachers are having a little too much "fun" and forgettting to teach THEORY.  

Why are you responding to someone who is no longer a member?

[bernhard]

The only guy that seems to be answering all the so called 'tricky' musical questions is from Britain.  What does that say?

I suspect you may be referring to me. If you are not, ignore the rest of this reply.

If you are talking about me, I would like to say that although I live and teach in the UK, I am not actually from the UK, nor I was educated there. I mention it because I do not like a country/culture/nationality to take credit for whatever my humble accomplishments may be.

So to answer you rhetorical question, all it says is my current residence.

Anyway, as I said before, I do not really think it has anything to do with origins, and personally I have been mostly influenced by American pedagogues (I am not American either), whom by the way were not mainstream at all. They were originals frequently challenging widely held beliefs about piano technique/teaching.

As far as I am concerned there is no need for an intellectual discussion on most of these issues: Just go to the piano and try it. If it works, add to your repertory of tricks and techniques. If it does not move on (it may work for someone else).

If you have one behaviour you are stuck. If you have two you are confused. And if you have three you start to have choice.

Finally, just because other people do not bother to give detailed replies on every topic, does not necessarily mean that they ignore the answer. I know that I myself often do not post replies to questions for which I know the answer for lack of time or simply enthusiasm for the subject.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Lee]

Why are you responding to someone who is no longer a member?

For the benefit of other members.  You read it, didn't you? Why did Greg Fordrea respond to lallasvenson?  I read on another post she deleted her membership.

They obviously don't want to take part in this forum any longer, but they've left their words behind.  If they didn't want others to comment, they should have deleted their posts.

I disagreed with the statement made: so many teachers take the study of piano so seriously.   In fact, the comment surprised me.   I responded to the idea.  I don't care if she's around to read my comment.  Self expression is cathartic.

If I have not answered your question to your satisfaction, post, and we'll go over it again.  

[Lee]

. I mention it because I do not like a country/culture/nationality to take credit for whatever my humble accomplishments may be.

Bernhard.

Accepted.  

The magical quality of rhetoric however, is not expecting an answer.  Thanks for ruining it.

[Hmoll]

Accepted.  

The magical quality of rhetoric however, is not expecting an answer.  Thanks for ruining it.

No offense, but I'm still looking for the "magical quality"  of your rhetoric.

Not to speak for Bernhard, but I think he was clearing up an erroneous assuption that you made.

[schnabels_grandson]

Haven't you heard?  Lee is Minsmusic!  

[Hmoll]

Haven't you heard?  Lee is Minsmusic!  

Just like Jekyll is Hyde.

[Lyndall]

I agree with both the 'traditional' & the 'fun' points of view & there probably ought to be both kinds of teachers in this world to match each student's personality.

Some will respond perfectly & strive for the 'strict' teacher but might not know how to act around the 'less strict' one.  Others will be intimidated by the thought of a teacher who would scold them for not practising & therefore would be better off learning from a more relaxed teacher who won't kill their desire to learn.

It does seem like the European school of thought would get excellent results with such discipline & emphasis placed on studying music.  In the States, children especially seem to be less inclined to devote themselves to ONE particular discipline, but prefer to be able to participate in MANY activities.  Who's to say which will result in happier kids?  Again it depends on each kid's personality.

I do wish the American culture was just a little more European so that I'd have an easier time trying to instill the importance of piano without having to compete with so many other passtimes! (I'm also an Aussie but currently living in the States)

[Lyndall]

Just read cellodude's post in the "Fun" topic & he basically says the same thing about different personalities.

I am more inclined to making my lessons 'fun' but after every lesson I wish I was stricter.  Unfortunately I know that this approach will not work for so many of my students.  Their heart & head is not 100% in piano (I can tell they just 'don't have what it takes' - for some it's a lack of beat, others are slower learners, others have terrible finger/eye coordination).  But, every single student loves playing piano & loves each lesson!

So, I'm torn between keeping all these students & feeding their enjoyment, or letting them go & keeping the ones who more clearly have a natural affininty for piano & therefore will respond to a stricter structure & progress even more. :-/

[russda_man]

No you are not. I am teaching tradionally. I am very strict with pupils. If they are lazy, I will tell them off. The older they are, the louder I shout at them. You can't be nice to pupils who don't work. You need to be strict. Anton Rubenstein's teacher used to hit him! Also, I disagree with the whole 20th century idea that we should all be versatile and learn jazz, and do weddings, party work on the side while studying. No. You can't go from playing Chopin piano sonatas to jazz! Especially if you want to be a concert pianist. PIanists would benefit far more from playing the organ, conducting, or composing.

[pianisten1989]

Anton Rubenstein's teacher used to hit him!

And since it worked for him, it has to work for everybody, right?

I don't see the point in yelling. If yelling is the only way you can get your pupils to respect (read: fear) you, then maybe you should broader you view?

[liordavid]

I think that there is defenitely a balance in fun from fun with learning  piece to Six Flags fun. If i were a piano teacher i would reward practice time with candy bars until practicing becomes natural. If a student is not enjoying a piece I would do something like make up a funny story to go along with the piece. This way the students could see me a piano teacher with high expectations but also a playful and fun teacher 

[love_that_tune]

Sure wish I had kept a tally of how many students I have met who quit because of teachers like yourself.  Ah but then I have better things to do.  Going to go have some bliss with my students.

[doctor_ivory]

The history of piano pedagogy has possibly the most notorious student drop out rate of any teaching discipline (even differential calculus).  The horror stories of students and their piano instructors easily approach the infinite.  Why is teaching "traditionally" something to be necessarily proud of?

[lelle]

lallasvensson's gotta be a forum troll. There is no possible way somebody actually believes in this.

[lostinidlewonder]

Wow such an old thread revived. The problem with looking at traditional piano lessons is that we must look at the historical context. Nowadays in the 21st century almost everyone in the Western world can own a piano in their home and afford to hire a teacher to give them lessons. But go back before early 20th century, who had the money for lessons let alone a piano? So the way in which piano education has evolved over the centuries has certainly changed and for the better mind you.

Before long ago, the musical knowledge was in secret circles (getting taught by good teachers impossible), getting your hands on scores was very difficult, expensive and a luxury. Nowadays we can print off sheet music we can do piano courses, we can make learning the piano fun. That is because there has been a different niche for pianists, now those who play are not only the filthy rich or incredibly talented but the average person now even can learn! Because of this teachers must know what type of client they are dealing with, if they do not then they will simply fail in their business or at least not achieve what they potentially could!

[zeisig]

I am not a professional piano teacher but I started to teach my daughter when she was 6 years old.  When she started band in 6th grade she found her instrument - the flute - but she still plays the piano.  While playing at church a mother approached and asked her who her teacher was and she called me the next day to see if I would be willing to teach her 12 year old daughter.  She just quit lessons with her previous teacher and were about ready to sell the piano.  I told her I am not a professional teacher and she said she didn't care.  I am teacher this girl now for almost 2 years and in the mean time her younger sister started too.  When they come to their lessons I found out they need to tell what happened since the last lesson.  If I do not let them tell me things they think are important, I do not have their attention during the lesson.  As both come at the same time for consecutive lessons I occupy the one waiting with theroy lessons we discussed the week before.  That way there is no interuption.  If we play a piece that has a specific title, we discuss which part of the piece specifically refers to the title.  It makes them understand it a lot easier.  If they have a problem with a more difficult part of a piece and you make a fun comment - make sure it is not derogative-  then they laugh and while laughing they relax and the next time is works much better.  There are days neither one of them have much of an attention span.  Then we just do something else music related.  They are playing toghether four hand and enjoy it alot.  If they have fun during the lessons they retain a lot more.

[mike saville]

I scold my students if they havent practised. They all obey and make progress this way.

This has to be a wind up. At least I sincerely hope so for your students sake.

I wonder how long these 'scolded' students remain students . . ..  ..

[youjean88]

i smell a troll

[ingunite]

Troll or no troll, the teaching method and repertoire described by lalla has been implemented in Europe, particularly Eastern/Middle/Northern Europe for many decades with spectacular success.
Yes, thirty-something years ago, I had to go through it all by insistence of my parents for seven years, and, no, at the time I did not appreciate the piano lessons at all.
Now I do look back at them with greatest respect and regret not being a better student. Also, I look at the skills and understanding of music I had learned and wonder about the things I missed due to my laziness.
My admiration goes to the teachers who do not cater to students/parents' perfunctory wishes and tastes, but instead conscientiously propagate the best of the best in piano teaching traditions, and bring out students' potential if necessary, at the cost of being popular.
Antiquated methods? I would rather call them propagating values of teaching and art without compromises and apologies.

[pkpianist]

The problem with llala's method, which is still very much in practice in many parts of Asia and eastern Europe is that in the US and in western Europe, the landscape has changed tremendously in terms of teaching.

First is personally I am a pretty straight and disciplined teacher. I do let my student know when I know they don't practice. But I treat each one differently. Some students can be scolded at and will still come back while others won't. The thing is in the US, a lot of the times whether or not a student continues to take piano lesson is actually determined by the student themselves. You try to tell the parents that every student goes through phases of not wanting to practice, but depending on the parent and the student, they may cave in. And in this day and age, we are competing with so many other lessons a student has in their lives...art, sports, dance, martial arts, computer, after school tutoring, PSAT, SAT etc. etc. etc. And to keep in mind that the majority of the students you take will not become a professional musician, it's very important to keep in the back of our minds that certain students will require a bit of fun factor to keep them interested and involved.

However fun doesn't mean a lack of real substance. There is value to edutainment. It's just a matter of not caving into fun for the sake of fun, and losing the actual ability to teach substance. The truth is, if you can teach the student the same amount of material, and that the student learns the same thing, and you can do it in a fun environment, what's wrong with that? Nothing.

I remember a French teacher in High School who regimented the class every day with the exact same thing making it nearly unbearable. In the end, I dropped it. I didn't learn any more with her then the teacher I had in junior high who was playing games and having fun with the whole class all the time. It's all in your ability to communicate to your student what you are trying to say. And different student will prefer and require a different amount of fun factor in the lesson.