Teaching adults

[lallasvensson]

Hi fellow fun teachers.

I might start teaching some adult amateur students. I actually dont want to do it, because my teaching is very much based on hands, arms, wrists, elbows positions and this usually doesnt work on adults, but they are insisting so i might give it a new try.  

I need your advice and let s play a game, try not to use the word fun in your answers, thank you.

[Hmoll]

I am not sure how much help you are going to get here, since you cuntinue to insult, and question the quality of the teaching of experienced teachers who post here.
Also, I wonder why you are looking for their advice, when you have such a low opinion of them.

Anyway, here's some advice from an non-professional  adult pianist. 1) If you don't want to teach us in the first place, please don't. We only want teachers who are enthusiastic about teaching us. 2) Don't worry about your method of teaching being about arms, hands, wrists, elbows. Most of us have all of those.

[lallasvensson]

As a matter of fact most amateur adults have totally fixed fingers and hands and there is very little i can do about their technique and indeed i am not interested in teaching students who are not going to be able to play decently. But as i almost taught exclusively 7-16 years old, i am lacking of experience. maybe it would be fun to try ??

[bernhard]

Maybe people are being a little harsh towards Lallasvenson. I read his posts, and I didn’t think they were that insulting to start with. But he seems to have been cornered, and is reacting accordingly.

Back to your original question.

Yes, adults may have certain problems, but in my opinion they have one major advantage over children and teenagers: Motivation. They will also understand what you want from them and they will follow your instructions to the letter.

Now I am not going to list everything that can be said about adult students. I will suggest instead that you make more specific queries (so that you don’t get dismissive answers simply because people will not have the time to write treatises).

So to answer one specific query:

As a matter of fact most amateur adults have totally fixed fingers and hands and there is very little i can do about their technique and indeed i am not interested in teaching students who are not going to be able to play decently.

I don’t find this to be always the case. But even if it was there is much you can do to help. As a teacher, it is exactly this sort of student that needs you the most. If they already possessed suppleness, co-ordination and finger dexterity, there would be precious little to teach them that they could not learn by themselves.

However you may not have the resources to help them. So here are some:

1.      Get familiarised with wrist and finger stretches. You will not find these in piano literature though. The best way to learn about these things is to get acquainted with the martial art of Aikido (I am serious). Once you learn them, make these stretches part of your routine and of your students.

2.      Get acquainted with Seymour Finks’ eleven basic movements and co-ordinations. Get the video that accompanies the book. You will not be able to master the movements from the book alone. (Seymour Fink: Mastering piano technique – Amadeus Press).

3.      Learn and teach juggling to your students (not because it is fun! I promise it as hard and devoid of fun as practising the piano). It develops co-ordination, wrist and finger strength and teaches how to use the arms to originate the movements all skills bearing direct benefits to piano playing. (Clubs are better than balls, but you will have to start with balls).

Any adult with poor co-ordination and fixed fingers that spends one or two months working on these three suggestions will experience amazing improvement.

Finally, you say that you are not interested in teaching adults who are not going to be able to play decently. That is partly your job: to get them to play decently. And then again, play decently what? 80% of the piano repertory consists of pieces that are technically simple and musically extremely satisfying. Anyone who has been properly taught should be able to play decently the easier Scarlatti sonatas, or the easier Mendelssohn’s songs without words, or the easier Grieg’s lyric pieces, or the easier Chopin preludes. Not everyone will be able to play Chopin etudes, or Liszt’s Hungarian Rahpsodies, but most adults do not want to play these pieces in the first place. They will be forever grateful to you if you can get to play anything at all. Even Fur Elise.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[lallasvensson]

Bernhard,
you are a great person!
how professional your answers are!
I will actually print this answer and study it carefully.
Yes maybe you are right. I have too little (and not positive) experience with adult students. I will study your answer, interview one prospective student tomorrow and see what i can do...
Kindly

[lallasvensson]

PLaying decently....

The pieces you mentioned turn to be terribly difficult for the amateur students i tried to teach.
It would be a dream if they could be on that kind of level.... But it was already impossible for them to play a scale decently so....

[bernhard]

PLaying decently....

The pieces you mentioned turn to be terribly difficult for the amateur students i tried to teach.
It would be a dream if they could be on that kind of level.... But it was already impossible for them to play a scale decently so....

Yes, of course they are. But they are suggested as the final goal, not as something to be tackled on the first month.

It may take up to ten years to get an adult student to play one of these pieces. But that is all right.

One of my adult students came to his first lesson bringin with him a copy of Schubert's Impromptu. That was all she wanted to learn. Never played the piano before, and had arthritis (nice, eh?).

It took almost six years, but she did it. During this six years we worked on many many pieces that were carefully chosen for being manageable at each level she attained and yet at the same time thay would provide some of the technique she would need for the Impromptu eventually. It was hard work for me, because I had to figure out which pieces would lead to her goal. It also taught me a lot. I had to learn a repertory I never even knew existed. I had to learn about arthritis. I had to learn about learning strategies. I cannot even begin to tell you how much I had to learn. I got to the point where I was even advising her on her diet! And guess what? Her arthritis got better, (not cured though) and she now of course plays the Impromptu and much more.

Does she play it well? You bet. The feeling she has for the music more than compensates any technical deficiency (not that there are many) after all it is not a virtuoso piece.

So, have these pieces as your goal (or whatever piece they want to play), and pave the way that will lead to them.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Hmoll]

Bernard, You are a great guy, and are effusive with the benefits of   doubts.

I find lallasvenssons posts insulting for a number of reasons: 1) fails to recognize the dedication and abilities of the teachers he/she is seeking advice from.
2) Arrogantly dismisses the role of fun, joy and motivation in the rol;e of learning.  
3) Asks for advice in how to teach adults when he/she has preconceived ideas about what they can or can't do, and from the start does not wish to teach them.

Again, if he/she does not wish to teach adults, or does not want to deal with technical issues regarding adult pianists, then we in turn would be poorly served by such a teacher.

Furthermore, if that type of attitude is apparent towards adult students, I can imagine the type of attitude shown to  children and the parents who pay his/her freight.

[bernhard]

Bernard, You are a great guy, and are effusive with the benefits of   doubts.

I find lallasvenssons posts insulting for a number of reasons: 1) fails to recognize the dedication and abilities of the teachers he/she is seeking advice from.
2) Arrogantly dismisses the role of fun, joy and motivation in the rol;e of learning.  
3) Asks for advice in how to teach adults when he/she has preconceived ideas about what they can or can't do, and from the start does not wish to teach them.

Again, if he/she does not wish to teach adults, or does not want to deal with technical issues regarding adult pianists, then we in turn would be poorly served by such a teacher.

Furthermore, if that type of attitude is apparent towards adult students, I can imagine the type of attitude shown to  children and the parents who pay his/her freight.

You may be right.

On the other hand sometimes when writing one may give a different impression that the one s/he was trying to convey.

Also it is quite clear to me that this whole subject is very dear to some posters. So they jump at a sentence and read in it something that may not have been there to start with. Then the original poster responds and soon the whole thing escalates and goes nuclear.

I am not at all against this, since I find it quite amusing.

My own attitude is try to answer - if there is a question, and if I can contribute - and try to avoid the vociferous arguments.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[minsmusic]

Also it is quite clear to me that this whole subject is very dear to some posters. So they jump at a sentence and read in it something that may not have been there to start with. Then the original poster responds and soon the whole thing escalates and goes nuclear.

Yes.  I am ASOLUTELY and COMPLETELY guilty of doing this.  I am also laughing at the moment because stepping back from it all and reading it is hilarious.

However, I promise in future, I will at least try and think before I write.  I don't regret the things I've said, but the manner was less to be desired.  

Keep on keeping on!  And post away!!

[Hmoll]

 Then the original poster responds and soon the whole thing escalates and goes nuclear.

OK, point taken.
I could keep more of the WMDs out of my posts.

[bernhard]

OK, point taken.
I could keep more of the WMDs out of my posts.

Actually I was not criticising anyone, I was just making an observation. As I said I find it all vastly amusig, so please do not get rid of your arsenals!

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[minsmusic]

Okay, everyone here is allowed to call me stupid, but for the life of me Hmoll, I couldn't figure out what WMD's are.  Are they something you can colour?

[minsmusic]

[schnabels_grandson]

Weapons of Mass Destruction, like a nuclear weapon.

[minsmusic]

Ohhh. Thanks 6th Gen.  

[Hmoll]

Yes, thanks. WMD's are weapons of mass destructio. You know the things that GW Bush inconveniently - for him - can't find in Iraq. (Sort of like he can't find his own a@se with both hands.)

Enough editorializing for now.