Moderators--please help

[pianoannie]

Moderators,
Is it possible to ban lallasvensson from these boards?  Her posts are demeaning and rude, and have no place on a piano forum where teachers come to discuss ideas and get encouragement.
Frankly, I think these posts are just a joke in very poor taste, but I am quite tired of them.
At the very least, I hope the other kind and helpful teachers here will join me in refusing to have any further dialogue with this troll.
Thank you, pianoannie

Examples of her offensive posts:
I realize that most of you teach on a very low level, like jingle bells and so on and this is why we are not speaking the same language at all.  

Of course the whole package is American as one could expect.
Cant kids in that country learn anything at all properly anymore

My god... numbers, stickers and flashcards .... where have all these brilliant teachers been trained ??

But is there really absolutely nobody else than me on this forum which gets annoyed by the persistency of teachers who want FUN, FUN, FUN because they are so afraid to lose their students (bad for their self esteem ...)

I dont need FUN, colored stickers etc  to keep my lessons interesting because music is interesting enough by itself. If music is not enough to keep the pupil entertained, he should go back to his Nintendo.

I think these color games or whatever are pure waste of time.

[lallasvensson]

Dear Pianoannie,
i am far from being a troll. I am a quite succesful performing musician and teacher.

If my posts disturb you, dont read them and continue playing with your stickers.

[nilsjohan]

lallasvensson,

I sent you a private message earlier today. Please read it!

Johan

[lallasvensson]

Dear NilsJohan
Thank you for your nice message, indeed i was happy to get it.
Well, I am very disappointed by the forum because it is mostly talking about how to make fun in the lessons.
Anyway, I dont live in the US, i live in Germany, which probably explains the cultural shock as almost everybody on the forum seems to come from the US.
So dont worry i will probably leave very soon. You can even prevent me from entering the forum if you wish.
I found that only Bernhardt and Hmoll had some interesting stuff to say about teaching the piano.
Kindly
lalla

[nilsjohan]

Oops...

She just deleted her own membership. That is why her username turned white.

[comme_le_vent]

and thanks alot nils, freedom of speech anyone?

[nilsjohan]

Not here.

Piano Forum is not a chat board. Please don't post if you have nothing interesting to add to the topic.
Especially, as I have told you before, your dirty comments are unwelcome. That is why your recent postings in this thread were deleted.
I hope for your understanding.

Johan

[Hmoll]

and thanks alot nils, freedom of speech anyone?

I think Nils said that she deleted her membership. That would amount to her exercising her freedom of speech.

Nils does a great job with this forum, and we all owe him a debt of gratitude for helping bring us together.

[pianoannie]

Yes, thanks Nils!  There's a big difference between freedom of speech in your own venue, compared to coming to a website that someone else has invested time and money into, then turning that forum into a farce of ridiculous posts.
I so appreciate the helpful posts that share good ideas in a positive, constructive way.

[nilsjohan]

Thanks for your kind words!

I think Nils said that she deleted her membership. That would amount to her exercising her freedom of speech.

comme_le_vent and myself were refering to a number of comme's own posts in this thread that were deleted.

Now, let's forget about this whole thread and keep on discussing PIANO instead!

Johan

[faulty_damper]

I don't like this thread but am compelled to respond.

I didn't think it was demeaning for someone to comment that something is less than attractive and saying so.

Ex.1
If a girl is pretty, people will say "You're pretty."
If a girl is ugly, people won't say "You're ugly" because in our culture, it is "rude" to say so.  Double standard?


The purpose of this thread was to "ban" a member because someone didn't like what was being said.  Did anyone break any rules when they commented on others' teaching techniques?  Ridiculous?  I thought those comments pointed out some things about different teaching techniques and some cultural insights.  

Lets face it.  Or not.  Mostly the latter.  Hence this thread, am I right?

I would not ever think of banning someone even if what they say would fall on the side of being "offensive".  Even "offensive" people have insight on things that non-offensive people would not have.  Banning someone just because they fall in that category?  Consider your students.  Would you not teach someone just because he does not practice as much as you'd like?  Or likes to learn in a manner different from the one you prescribed?  Everyone is different.  Don't expect someone to fall in line with the way you'd expect them to fall.  Some fall to the left, some to the right.  Either way, everyone falls to one side or another.

This thread reminds me of that film about blue eyes, brown  eyes and how one group is told they are better than the other.  Then the roles are reversed.

[Bob]

I'm up for someone telling their opinions bluntly (as long as their not being really rude just to be rude, or offensive, or vulgar...)  It's refreshing to hear someone with a strong opinion and something to back it up -- a kick in the brain to get you thinking.  As long as it's not a witch hunt, bring on the ideas and back them up!

(I have not read the posts by all these people mentioned above, but a few "harsher" posts are amusing and thought-provoking.)

Yes, thanks for this forum.  I'm stuck in the boonies and it's nice to hear piano people again.

[cellodude]

I don't like this thread but am compelled to respond.

I didn't think it was demeaning for someone to comment that something is less than attractive and saying so.

I agree with you in principle.  What I'm not sure about is whether we agree lallasvensson went beyond your description above.

Ex.1
If a girl is pretty, people will say "You're pretty."
If a girl is ugly, people won't say "You're ugly" because in our culture, it is "rude" to say so.  Double standard?


The purpose of this thread was to "ban" a member because someone didn't like what was being said.

There's more than one. Count me in.

Did anyone break any rules when they commented on others' teaching techniques?  

If there aren't any rules about being rude, putting others down, ridicule, offensive language there ought to be one.
Commenting on other's teaching techniques and commenting on others are quite different things altogether (see pianoannie's quotes of lallasvensson's postings in the first post of this thread).

Ridiculous?  I thought those comments pointed out some things about different teaching techniques and some cultural insights.  

Lets face it.  Or not.  Mostly the latter.  Hence this thread, am I right?

I would not ever think of banning someone even if what they say would fall on the side of being "offensive".  Even "offensive" people have insight on things that non-offensive people would not have.

lallasvensson had ONE insight i.e. his/er teaching method is superior to everyone else's and if you do not do as s/he does you are an idiot, a moron, a retard. I'm glad the rest of us don't have that insight (I hope  )

 Banning someone just because they fall in that category?  Consider your students.  Would you not teach someone just because he does not practice as much as you'd like?  Or likes to learn in a manner different from the one you prescribed?  Everyone is different.  Don't expect someone to fall in line with the way you'd expect them to fall.  Some fall to the left, some to the right.  Either way, everyone falls to one side or another.

This thread reminds me of that film about blue eyes, brown  eyes and how one group is told they are better than the other.  Then the roles are reversed.

Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't remember anyone saying that s/he or his/er teaching method is inferior to the other methods suggested. S/he did that to others though!

In fact I remember someone (I don't remember who) even pleaded with him/er to see and accept the fact that his/er method can co-exist with other methods and all can be used depending on the student's maturity. All to no avail.

I think it's alright for him/er to go if neither him/er or any others on this board is benefitting from his/er presence.

Just my 0.02  ,

dennis lee

[cellodude]

...
I think it's alright for him/er to go if neither him/er or any others on this board is benefitting from his/er presence.

Just my 0.02  ,

dennis lee

It should be: ...neither him/er NOR any...

Where's Ed when you need him?    

dennis lee

[faulty_damper]

True statement:
I can't possibly insult you with my words.  You do the insulting yourself because YOU are the one who chooses to be insulted.

However, if I took a stick and hit you with it, then it is I who caused your pain because you can't possible control the sensation of pain, no?


---
I saved a turtle from being run over by cars today.  It was in the middle of the road as I rode passed it on my bicycle.  I turned around to carry him off the road as six cars drove over him!  The last car was within a foot of turning it into a turtle pancake!  But I was able to carry him off and put him back near the pond that it probably came from.

Is this story relevant to the topic?  I'm ambivilent about it.  Some people may be glad I saved a turtle (it was a red-eared terrapin).  Others may be disgusted I touched a turtle let alone try to let it live a bit longer.  Do I have any control of the opinions by others of the story?  No, I do not.

[bernhard]

True statement:
I can't possibly insult you with my words.  You do the insulting yourself because YOU are the one who chooses to be insulted.

However, if I took a stick and hit you with it, then it is I who caused your pain because you can't possible control the sensation of pain, no?

Spot on!

[pianoannie]

True statement:
I can't possibly insult you with my words.  You do the insulting yourself because YOU are the one who chooses to be insulted.

I'm sorry, you are trying to make things more complicated than they are.  You know perfectly well whether words you say to someone are intended to be words of kindness or words of insult.  And people are not so stupid as to be unable to distinguish the two.  One can choose whether or not to let your insults be upsetting, but if you say something so blunt and rude as "You must be an idiotic piano teacher who has horse manure where your brains should be," anyone who speaks the English language would know that you had insulted the person to whom you were speaking.

[schnabels_grandson]

I'm sorry, you are trying to make things more complicated than they are.  You know perfectly well whether words you say to someone are intended to be words of kindness or words of insult.  And people are not so stupid as to be unable to distinguish the two.  One can choose whether or not to let your insults be upsetting, but if you say something so blunt and rude as "You must be an idiotic piano teacher who has horse manure where your brains should be," anyone who speaks the English language would know that you had insulted the person to whom you were speaking.

Yes, it is often obvious when someone is trying to insult you.  However, you don't have to attach any value to what your insulter is saying.  The natural first response to an insult is to be offended, but that doesn't mean you have to be.  As Faulty Damper said, you choose (often unconsciously) to be offended or insulted.  If you learn to control your natural impulses, you will be able to make a decision as to whether or not you'll be offended.

 As my dad always says about things like this, consider the source.  If you recognize someone as a crazy maker, all you have to do is decide not to give that person the time of day.  Problem solved.

[cellodude]

True statement:
I can't possibly insult you with my words.  You do the insulting yourself because YOU are the one who chooses to be insulted.

However, if I took a stick and hit you with it, then it is I who caused your pain because you can't possible control the sensation of pain, no?
...

Again, I agree with you and also 6th_Gen_Beethovan but as I said in my earlier post no one is benefitting from his/er uncontrolled abuse of others, not even him/erself. I personally wasn't insulted as I didn't tangle with him/er too much.

But the fact that you and I are not insulted by his/er abuse does nothing to change the fact that others with valuable input to this forum may be. What if pianoannie and/or minsmusic decided to leave the forum because of the abuse? Their valuable input go with them.

What if there was someone lurking this forum to see if he/she should join and sees such nonsense? They may decide to leave and we lose their insight.

I dunno, maybe we could discuss some more and see if there are any more angles to this and maybe nilsjohan can come up with some policy regarding this.

TTFN (ta ta fo now),

dennis lee

[minsmusic]

For those of you interested in how lalla is going (female), she is now a very active poster on the board I help moderate.  She brings another approach to teaching that is being very appreciated by others.  After a few warnings, she now chooses her words very carefully.  I think the posters there would now miss her if she leaves - me included.
If you would like to make friends, check it out.

https://pianoeducation.org/cgi-bin/ib311/ikonboard.cgi?s=8b00ff3566e8f1b5d0534a2cb6c33e5c

[minsmusic]

What if minsmusic decided to leave the forum.

Oooh, now I feel little sad.  Thank you Dennis for this consideration, but I'm afraid I have decided to leave.  I post in  three piano forums .Yeah ... a little too much time on my hands?  No, just my obsessive personality.  But I'm over it now.  I've decided to just stick to one.

Thank you piano teachers for all the advice you've knowingly or unkowingly given me.  I certainly have learned a lot.  

In the words of Bernhard, ALL THE BEST!
Jenny.

[faulty_damper]

"I post in  three piano forums .Yeah ... a little too much time on my hands?  No, just my obsessive personality.  But I'm over it now.  I've decided to just stick to one. "

I see now.  This is the only piano forum I'm on so I'll stick to this one.