You're all right

[liszt-essence]

A philosophical thought entered my mind

Everyone here, is fighting eachother with arguments based on reason.

In many teachings, reason is no ground for truth and truth is not upheld by reason.

Truth comes in many shapes and in many forms

Who are you fighting but yourself?

So: You're all right, whatever works for you, whatever you find comfortable or whatever you learn and discard on your journey. Don't fight so much against others, but instead take a look at yourself and see what you can find on your way and use to your own advantage. Take a look around and then realise that all there is, is part of you and you are part of it too. You are not in control and you never will be. You are just part of the flow and your selfish self and egoism will not bring you to any good or will be of any good to you in the future.

[counterpoint]

ommmmmmmmmmmmm..........























 

[nightingale11]

How can one be so sure that one is right? -- Only by testing different things and see what works the best. One can not decide what is right or wrong by having intellectual discussions with yourself and others.

[ramseytheii]

A philosophical thought entered my mind

Everyone here, is fighting eachother with arguments based on reason.

In many teachings, reason is no ground for truth and truth is not upheld by reason.

Truth comes in many shapes and in many forms

Who are you fighting but yourself?

So: You're all right, whatever works for you, whatever you find comfortable or whatever you learn and discard on your journey. Don't fight so much against others, but instead take a look at yourself and see what you can find on your way and use to your own advantage. Take a look around and then realise that all there is, is part of you and you are part of it too. You are not in control and you never will be. You are just part of the flow and your selfish self and egoism will not bring you to any good or will be of any good to you in the future.

Definitely not everyone on here argues from reason.  Or, their reason is often based in the way they feel about something and nothing else.  That may be real enough for one person, but not for the rest of us, and therefore if we want to be any help at all, we can't neglect to talk cold hard facts. 

Also, if you encounter those spreading erroneous information, or harmful propaganda about relying on one's feelings to solve everything, you are obligated to speak up.  In my case, I speak up when I see posts that try to solve pianistic problems solely with abstract gestures and descriptions of movements.  I know from experience that for some, those are more harmful than helpful, and I provide the other side of the coin - solving pianistic problems from a musical perspective (which is what Liszt taught, Godowsky taught, and Neuhaus taught after him).

Finally, the only thing we have to treasure is our selves.  Your ego is of the utmost importance to productivity, standards, and achievement.  Don't listen to anyone who tries to tell you otherwise - like this inhumane poster who claims your self doesn't matter and it is insignificant compared to the "flow," whatever that means.

Walter Ramsey

[jacobwynn]

All very philosophical: and I find it very interesting indeed.

I think that one's ego is very important in order to motivate, but it has to respond to the wider society or it is just like a hermit in a field (and there's no such think as a private language).

Which makes me think about being a pianist in the future: say in twenty years time or such. The world is changing so fast with computers and internet, countries like China and India becoming the future Powers, social problems in the West; is there going to be a viable role for any classical musician (let alone a pianist) in a fraught future? Can we fit into such a future?

I thought that since we are going to be philosophical, we might as well go the whole hog and speculate.

Pianists in the future? Discussing rationally or otherwise, do we think that pianists have a future anyway?

[pianistimo]

certainly not economically.  does anyone pay off their student loans within 10 years?  ok maybe 10 years.  but, whew!  as i see it - the pay has to match the loan. 

also, music is becoming so readily available that people don't often even ask professional musicians to play at their weddings.  they just grab 6 CD's or have a band or pianist for only the ceremony part.  less of a 'criticalness' is there for societal events and parties.

you have to sell yourself - much harder - these days.  and, there is much competition in teaching in the higher education (university) setting.  you can't just assume 'i am going to be a uni professor or a concert pianist.'

that said - any degree helps you learn how to think, how to process work flow, how to manage time, how to attain another degree.  in an ideal world - each degree program would end by the student getting a job in that field.  unfortunately, this is not always (but seems to usually be the case) the case - and/or the job is not as high paying or does not have the benefits that one assumes it will.

perhaps the best thing to do is to go and talk with professionals already doing the job you are seeking.  seems to me that nowdays people are 'split' between several occupations that bring in money.  music is not necessarily a constant moneymaking thing.  summertime - students go on vacation.  i think it is really a good idea to have two or three sources of income.  that requires training in another field besides simply music.

i have a bachelor's degree in piano and i'm sure that i could teach lots of lessons and group lessons (which i hear really help the money flow problem).  the thing is - if you have a music school - a lot of expenses are also kicked up.  if you want to be successful - as i see it - you need a business degree so you can also incorporate several businesses at the same time.  tax-preparation, art, language, whatever.  you have to be imaginative and not say - i will do one thing and it will support me my entire life.  it doesn't seem to be reality.  that is what i think.

ps i am also driven by my heart and against parental wishes and odd negativities coming from others - i pursued 1 1/2 more years of graduate school (loan for part of it - and cash payments for the other) taking piano lessons specifically, as well as history classes, etc. 

as i see it - people do music for the love of music.  they just cannot do otherwise.  the thing is - they can start seeing the absolute value of piano lessons for both personal learning and pedagogy and take another degree program at the same time.  it might be slower - but more steady.  perhaps adding another year if one gets both a music degree and a business degree or something humanities related :  history, art, language.

**also, if one is truly talented and takes several degrees in music field - it might work really well.  orchestral and/or choral conducting, piano performance, theory, musicology, (there are a wide range of degreed programs at west chester uni), pedagogy.  i'm not saying people can't make it.  it's better, though, to not think 'i will do one thing.'

[pianistimo]

i'd like to add that when you have your own business, you are paying social security tax.  also, health benefits to your employees.  some think it is better to work for an employer yourself to avoid high taxation - as the employer is to pay the taxes.  this is the difference between big business and small business. 

when a person works for an employer - most of the taxes are pre-programmed to be pulled out of the wages so what you make is truly what you make.  when you are in business for yourself - most of the time you overspend because you think you are making $50 - when you are making $10.  and, health benefits?  who has them and is self-employed (in the usa). 

musicians in past either had rich benefactors or worked to practically starvation levels at times and had to perform and compose.  composition could have some really great outcomes - perhaps - but you have to know that you will be inspired to write and write and keep expanding upon knowledge of software available.  unless you always write by hand. and, join professional groups that inspire you to do better each year.  or MTNA, for teachers.  although - these professional groups charge membership fees which might eat into the food budget. 

[loops]

Finally, the only thing we have to treasure is our selves.  Your ego is of the utmost importance to productivity, standards, and achievement.  Don't listen to anyone who tries to tell you otherwise - like this inhumane poster who claims your self doesn't matter and it is insignificant compared to the "flow," whatever that means.

Walter Ramsey

I think the poster was talking about the "selfish self" not the "higher self" as many people call it.

I personally think that the idea of a self is a mental construct. It is an illusion. Think about it:
everybody has their idea of who you are, and these ideas may have little to do with what you
think you are. But all these thoughts exist only in brains as electrical patterns of some sort.

It is interesting to try living outside the little box with your name on it. It is quite an eye-opener. I am still
exploring this... as you say Walter, the idea of a self is valuable for the reasons you mention.

[pianistimo]

but, does it matter what other people think of you?  i don't think so.  my entire life has been somewhat selfish in that matter that i really don't care.  i'm just myself.  they can take it or leave it.  i try to change only what i feel needs changing.  perhaps i should be more open to what someone thinks - but then - if forced - it wouldn't be my true feelings.

also, we can find out more about ourselves by how we do interact.  pianists tend to be a little bit anti-social (or a lot) and people assume 'oh, they're stuck up.'  or, 'they think they're all that.'  or 'just because she/he plays the piano - they think they can work for the cia.'  well - that might have been the case 20 years ago - but in reality - anybody can learn to play the piano.  maybe we should put a sign up above ourselves.  'we're no better than anybody else.  just take piano lessons and figure it out for yourself.'

*although i firmly believe that pianists have better dexterity and probably play tennis and do dexterous things better.