Live Powell plays Opus Clavicembalisticum, to be downloaded by you

[mephisto]

To all Sorabji fans, look no furhter than this:

https://jonathanpowell.wordpress.com/recordings/

 

[anodibu]

Thanks!

[retrouvailles]

I've listened to only a very small portion, and I am already blown away by it. It seems like a totally different piece under Powell. I cant wait for it to be released!

[jakev2.0]

Grrr...just downloaded one snippet of Sorabji. The guy is one hell of a pianist. Rapidshare is sooo obnoxious, though.

[soliloquy]

Have already heard the OC but the feinberg is a nice find.  *is listening now*

[Bob]

That's the OC?  (surprised)  I was expecting something more random and dissonant sounding.  I've seen the music briefly in the past, but that sounds.... tonal, organized....  I'm surprised.  Sounds "standard" for the avante garde modern stuff, not radical.  Finally though, I get to hear this thing.  Sounds nice really.  I was expecting pounding on the keys and lots quasi-gliassandi. 

[opus10no2]

Bob, the work was composed nearly 80 years ago.

[pita bread]

That's the OC?  (surprised)  I was expecting something more random and dissonant sounding.  I've seen the music briefly in the past, but that sounds.... tonal, organized....  I'm surprised.  Sounds "standard" for the avante garde modern stuff, not radical.  Finally though, I get to hear this thing.  Sounds nice really.  I was expecting pounding on the keys and lots quasi-gliassandi. 

The OC is basically Bach + Busoni on crack, made possible by post-Lisztian keyboard pyrotechnics.

[mephisto]

Bob, the work was composed nearly 80 years ago.

Yes, but comments like " opus calkchaldchcoici is random notes", "ops cumbucklizticum has no counterpoint", " no harmony", and "my cat could have composed better" would make most people think that the piece would sound like "worse" than Xenakis and Boulez. Not that I am saying anything bad about those composers, but Sorabji's music is actually tonal and composed in typycal baroque forms. As well a number of other forms(nocturnes for instance).

[ramseytheii]

Yes, but comments like " opus calkchaldchcoici is random notes", "ops cumbucklizticum has no counterpoint", " no harmony", and "my cat could have composed better" would make most people think that the piece would sound like "worse" than Xenakis and Boulez. Not that I am saying anything bad about those composers, but Sorabji's music is actually tonal and composed in typycal baroque forms. As well a number of other forms(nocturnes for instance).

I have to challenge you on your penultimate statement.  Please point out these Baroque forms!  And also, how can his music be composed in typical Baroque forms, if those typical forms are over within 3-6 minutes?!

Walter Ramsey

[Etude]

I have to challenge you on your penultimate statement.  Please point out these Baroque forms!  And also, how can his music be composed in typical Baroque forms, if those typical forms are over within 3-6 minutes?!

Walter Ramsey

The Baroque forms of OC

[pianistimo]

i downloaded the polonaise-fantasy instead.  everything is so clear.  very wonderfully conceived.  very modern.  never heard chopin quite this way.  jonathan powell thinks for himself.  chopin is pawned.  i think the way i heard this polonaise-fantasy many years ago - was a sort of ball of fire.  it started at one tempo and got faster and faster and faster.

the piano is so in tune.  this is my ideal for piano tuning.  yes.  may i have the piano?

[Bob]

I just had the impression that it was a lot more difficult on the ears.  It sounds a lot tamer than I expected.  I was debating, "Should I spend the time to download this if it's not pleasant at all?"

I haven't listened to it all, but it had more "lines" than I expected.  I was thinking it was going to have sweeps and be more pointillistic.  It did not sound like random notes and didn't sound like the extremely controlled/completely random avante garde music I've heard.

I'm pleasantly surprised.  I don't know if I'd actually go out and buy a CD of his though (although I might now) -- I've got the downloaded mp3's and can turn that into a CD myself.  For free.  I wonder why he posted this stuff.  Maybe he's not expecting to make any money off a CD, for all the investment needed.

[mephisto]

I have to challenge you on your penultimate statement.  Please point out these Baroque forms!  And also, how can his music be composed in typical Baroque forms, if those typical forms are over within 3-6 minutes?!

Walter Ramsey

First of all, having read some of your posts before, I have noticed that you know a lot about music history and have posted good posts about everything from Bach to Boulez, so I have to admit that I may be wrong.

But aren't fugues and passacaglias something very typical for the baroque period?
As well as freer forms such as preludes, toccatas? And do I remember wrong if Bach actually composed chorales?

Sorabji's fugues lasts for the most part longer thans Bach's and don't sound as good as his imo, but are written in the same very complicated but still free form of a fugue.

The first fugue is 11 minutes.

[cz4p32]

Part 3 seems unavailable to download....

Also, anyone know if he's posting the rest of the piece, or is this just a tease until it's officially released on CD?

[Etude]

Well, I think that when he does release a recording of OC, it will be a studio recording, as all his past Sorabji releases have been.  However, he won't record it officially until he's performed it twice more.  One of these performances has been planned for Japan in Autumn (according to Altarus' website).

The 1st fugue isn't working for me either... I hope it gets fixed, and I hope the rest gets uploaded as well.  Pars Prima is less than a quarter of the whole work. 

[mephisto]

By changing parts of the url, the link for the 1st fugue will work:
https://rapidshare.com/files/34056176/Sorabji_Opus_Clavicembalisticum_Powell_live_in_NYC_3_Fuga_I.mp3

enjoy

[Etude]

Thanks for that!

[cz4p32]

Duh...being a computer tech you'd think i would have figured that one out.

By changing parts of the url, the link for the 1st fugue will work:
https://rapidshare.com/files/34056176/Sorabji_Opus_Clavicembalisticum_Powell_live_in_NYC_3_Fuga_I.mp3

enjoy

[minor9th]

I attended that concert--thanks so much for the link--makes a nice momento of an overwhelming experience!

[ramseytheii]

The Baroque forms of OC

I knew I wouldn't find anything.

Walter Ramsey

[Etude]

Type 'Opus Clavicembalisticum' in and hit "I'm feeling lucky", it takes you to the wikipedia article on the OC which shows the layout of the work's movements.  Many of the forms used are typically found in baroque music, such as the chorale prelude, passacaglia, the four fugues and the fantasia.  Most last longer than 3-6 minutes, but most fugues from the baroque period aren't triple or quadruple, and most passacaglias from the baroque period don't have 81+ variations.  Sorabji is not simply copying the music of the baroque period, he is using elements of the baroque style in different contexts, for instance, harmonically, and through the very long durations which are, I believe, an influence from eastern classical music. 

[Bob]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Clavicembalisticum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroque_dance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroque_music

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,25185.0/topicseen.html


Hmmm....



$60 for the CD on Amazon?!

[retrouvailles]

For anyone interested:

https://www.opusclavicembalisticum.blogspot.com/

A few sample pages from the score.

[pianistimo]

each of the lines of the OC fugue is so 'personified.'  i thought it would sound terrible.  but, the way he plays it - it's not bad!  like people going about doing separate things in the same city.  you know the voices will be united here and there.  possibly at full chord stops.

[invictious]

The OC is basically Bach + Busoni on crack, made possible by post-Lisztian keyboard pyrotechnics.

Liszt set the piano on fire and made fireworks shoot out..?

[indutrial]

Can't wait for Powell to record this big-un in the studio. I have the Ogden box and it's very good, yet I can definitely understand the criticisms that people level at it. To me, it's amazing that anyone is willing to tackle this kind of monster. I'm hoping that the next 10-20 years brings to the surface typesettings and performances of Sorabji's other late giants (Sonata 5, Sequencia...). Slightly oblique topic, but I recently acquired Niels Viggo Bentzon's 15-CD box of his 'Tempered Piano' books 1-13 (312 preludes and 312 fugues!) and I have to say that it's quite unbelievable to observe the different things that modernist composers do to square themselves with (or against) baroque forms. Bentzon is far more clinical than Sorabji and he prefers a more contained approach to his work (the individual preludes and fugues never exceed 4:30 and some go as short as 0:15).

As far as Sorabji, I've been thoroughly enjoying Powell's rendition of the solo concerto that came out earlier this year. Bravo, Jonathon!

[ctrastevere]

I'm in the process of downloading/listening to it all, and so far I'm extremely impressed. The synthesized representations of this piece are nice, but nothing beats hearing an actual performance. This is truly a privilege... I can't wait to hear a complete recording!

[clavicembalisticum]

Wonderful. Simply Wonderful. Thank you for the good post. Live performance recordings are the best thing that can happen to music.

[Derek]

That's the OC?  (surprised)  I was expecting something more random and dissonant sounding.  I've seen the music briefly in the past, but that sounds.... tonal, organized....  I'm surprised.  Sounds "standard" for the avante garde modern stuff, not radical.  Finally though, I get to hear this thing.  Sounds nice really.  I was expecting pounding on the keys and lots quasi-gliassandi. 

I was surprised too. I rather like it. Gets a little overwhelming after a while, but when I'm in a death metal mood this sort of stuff appeals to me also.

[Etude]

I hope he uploads the other movements as well soon.

[pies]

Can someone reupload the mp3s to a different site?

[mephisto]

I decided to upload it to another site for you Pies:

https://www.megaupload.com/?d=6BWTVBGV


For those of you who have heard Ogdon's and Madges' recordings do you think that this playing is better?

[clavicembalisticum]

For those of you who have heard Ogdon's and Madges' recordings do you think that this playing is better?

His playing is similar to Ogdon's and I cannot say i found Madge's recording better than Ogdon's. Ogdon manages to give me a sense of mystery, but Powell is another kind of school altogether, maybe even better, probably because of the repertoire he follows and that does have an impact on his sound rendering skills by far. Right now it would be premature to say whether or not he is better than Ogdon on this because I have not had the pleasure of 1) listening to the entire piece from him 2) listening to a bigger sample of Powell's work in general. I liked Powell's Sorabji Sonata No.4 though.

Other thoughts:

Too bad Habermann does not have more parts of the piece recorded.
Too bad Hammelin is not after it as well!

I wonder if Powell is playing the OC using the working copy with the corrections or the one issued by the archives up to 1997, until the new manuscript surfaced (as far as I know, correct me on this if i am mistaken). I guess i will have to sit down with the sheet and find out... Some things sound different because of the notes, I am almost certain of that.

[mephisto]

Since we have the curator of the Sorabji archive as member here I cantell you that Powell uses the newest edition with all the corrections.

In addition to this he has changed the utline of the score by reducing the staves. Sorabjis use of many staves is good from a musical point of wiew, but not from a pianistic. For instance he never writes wich hand one should use for. This makes learning his pieces tedious

[clavicembalisticum]

Since we have the curator of the Sorabji archive as member here I cantell you that Powell uses the newest edition with all the corrections.

I will have to find a copy of that. Thanks for the confirmation of my ear hunch and the tip

In addition to this he has changed the utline of the score by reducing the staves. Sorabjis use of many staves is good from a musical point of wiew, but not from a pianistic. For instance he never writes wich hand one should use for. This makes learning his pieces tedious

Multiple staves look just sooooo "sexy" despite the fact that they are cumbersome to transform them into finger motion from sheer brain elaboration. Seriously though and asides Sorabji's difficulties, I would also say that since he is obviously reading the piece while performing it it makes more sense to use such a reduction in order to keep things organized.

I look forward to a studio recording where they will be having more room to layout the splendor of the opus to the tiniest level of its acoustics.

Thanks mephisto, wonderful post from the beginning by informing us

[thalbergmad]

Anyone going to the Powell concert on 25th June in London?

Looks like most of the seats are unsold.

Could be a good chance to meet up and have a few beers.

Thal

[jardinier]

Since we have the curator of the Sorabji archive as member here I cantell you that Powell uses the newest edition with all the corrections.

I will have to find a copy of that. Thanks for the confirmation of my ear hunch and the tip

Good luck with that. I suspect it will be quite some time before such an edition is available. Cross-referencing the manuscript, the original publication, the "working copy", and those portions of the pre-publication proofs that are currently available is an incredibly time-consuming and often frustrating experience.

My understanding is that Jonathan Powell has been adding some corrections into his own copy of the score, as well as re-setting certain passages from the fugues for clarity, but I'm not sure this is as yet comprehensive; I'm pretty certain I detected a number of mis-readings still remaining, judging by that performance (yeah, I know I'm being an ungrateful, nitpicking sod - sorry  )

As well as sorting out the actual notes, the whole score ideally needs to be completely re-typeset at some point. There are passages where the layout, alignments, registers, are simply wrong, and plenty more where the often awkward notation could be made much more readable, thereby reducing the potential for misinterpretation. I would also argue that there is at least one place (var 33 from the passacaglia; page 167 in the publication) where it might be useful to make an editorial ossia available to the performer. I'm inclined to believe from the inconsistency, and from seeing similar problems in Sorabji's other scores, that the truncated theme in the first bar is a compositional oversight.

A job like that is likely to take a minimum of a year to do with any competence. I don't believe for a second that JP has the time to undertake such a task, and I'm not aware that anybody else has started.

I'd like to think that the incorrect notes at least will completely sorted out by the time JP takes the work to the studio, but I seriously doubt you will see the publication of anything that could claim to be a "corrected edition" before that time.

As for comparing his performance of Part I with that of Madge and Ogdon, I would say that Powell's performance so far has been well worth the wait. I particularly enjoyed his approach to Fugue II; it was far more coherent than the versions of Madge and Ogdon - less of a scramble in places.

Best,
Simon

[richard black]

Anyone going to the Powell concert on 25th June in London?

If you mean the St John's Smith Square one it's the 22nd of June, and I'll be there 'cos I believe I'm supposed to be turning pages for it!

[retrouvailles]

Wow, how did you get appointed for that task?? It must be an honor to be doing such a thing for such a great pianist!

[pita bread]

Wow, how did you get appointed for that task?? It must be an honor to be doing such a thing for such a great pianist!

Dude, I think he was the guy who turned pages during the recording of the OC?

[mephisto]

Did you also turn the pages in Alistair Hinton's Sequentia Clavensis, or did you just record it?

[clavicembalisticum]

Good luck with that. I suspect it will be quite some time before such an edition is available. Cross-referencing the manuscript, the original publication, the "working copy", and those portions of the pre-publication proofs that are currently available is an incredibly time-consuming and often frustrating experience.

My understanding is that Jonathan Powell has been adding some corrections into his own copy of the score, as well as re-setting certain passages from the fugues for clarity, but I'm not sure this is as yet comprehensive; I'm pretty certain I detected a number of mis-readings still remaining, judging by that performance (yeah, I know I'm being an ungrateful, nitpicking sod - sorry  )

As well as sorting out the actual notes, the whole score ideally needs to be completely re-typeset at some point. There are passages where the layout, alignments, registers, are simply wrong, and plenty more where the often awkward notation could be made much more readable, thereby reducing the potential for misinterpretation. I would also argue that there is at least one place (var 33 from the passacaglia; page 167 in the publication) where it might be useful to make an editorial ossia available to the performer. I'm inclined to believe from the inconsistency, and from seeing similar problems in Sorabji's other scores, that the truncated theme in the first bar is a compositional oversight.

A job like that is likely to take a minimum of a year to do with any competence. I don't believe for a second that JP has the time to undertake such a task, and I'm not aware that anybody else has started.

I'd like to think that the incorrect notes at least will completely sorted out by the time JP takes the work to the studio, but I seriously doubt you will see the publication of anything that could claim to be a "corrected edition" before that time.

As for comparing his performance of Part I with that of Madge and Ogdon, I would say that Powell's performance so far has been well worth the wait. I particularly enjoyed his approach to Fugue II; it was far more coherent than the versions of Madge and Ogdon - less of a scramble in places.

Best,
Simon

Yes, Powell is more articulate in the piece throughout; I do believe that Ogdon's performance is a bit influenced by the romantic bravura style of other works he has performed; Powell is definitely more into the style of playing of composers "like" Sorabji, at least to my ears. Still, I will be waiting for the studio recording and I will be among the first who will order the CD set. It is kind of early for me to say whether i like Ogdon's or Powell's performance because we are talking about two very different interpreters with different repertoire as well; that does have a certain impact on performance in my humblest opinion.

There is also the fact that Powell is using a different copy of the work; this reason alone is why the studio recording must be awaited, so that as you have foreseen a copy of the matching piano sheet is also issued. Only then could a more precise evaluation could be attempted; till then though, i can only but stay put. It would be both premature and unjust to do things otherwise.

Unfortunately taking a flight to London is out of the question, at least for this month. Observing his hand choreography of the piece could give me an insight to many other things I have questions I better not lay out right now.

Oh and yes, welcome on the forum

[thalbergmad]

If you mean the St John's Smith Square one it's the 22nd of June, and I'll be there 'cos I believe I'm supposed to be turning pages for it!

Well, you will be easy to spot then.

I will bring you a beer at half time. Could be a long night.

Regards

Thal

[richard black]

Wow, how did you get appointed for that task?? It must be an honor to be doing such a thing for such a great pianist!

Well, Jonathan's a friend, so's Alistair Hinton, can't remember which one of them asked me actually but since they both know I don't mind being asked and all that.....

Yes, I turned for John Ogdon's OC recording (most of it: the first day I was busy debugging recording equipment that was supposed to be in use that day, as far as I remember) and yes, I turned for JP's Sequentia Claviensis gig and also operated the recording equipment. Never did get a chance to get John to come and turn for me    but JP can assume he'll get a call one day!

[ganymed]

can someone tell me how to pronounce "clavicembalisticum" and sorabji correctly

Sorry ! 

[Etude]

can someone tell me how to pronounce "clavicembalisticum" and sorabji correctly

Sorry ! 

I say:

Sore-Ab-Jee

Clavy-chem-bal-Iss-tic-um

[thalbergmad]

https://secure.sjss.org.uk/

There is still a massive amount of seats left at Mr Powell's next concert.

I am on fourth row from the front.

Come on, support our resident pianist and favourite resident composer.

Thal

[mephisto]

Thal will you actually go?! Good for you, because I would have LOVED to go, but it is just to far away

[thalbergmad]

Thal will you actually go?!

I am very bad at changing my mind at the last moment.

Just not sure if i am capable of listening to 2 hours or more of modern music.

Thal