Tremolo lines on Keyboard music

[tullfan]

Hi everyone,
I've just purchased Eight Keyboard Pieces by Orlando Gibbons and the music is covered in tremolo lines. I know what it means when the lines are between 2 notes or chords, but these are on single notes, written in the same way as in string music. What does this mean? lol. Any Help would be greatly appreciated.

[dnephi]

I believe that that means repetition of notes.

Regards,

Dan

[timothy42b]

Yes, repeat the note value of the flag for the duration of the longer note.

For example, a quarter note with one "tremolo" line would be played as two eighth notes, but if it had two lines it would be 4 sixteenth notes. 

At least, this is the way I do it.  Could be wrong, I guess. 

But it doesn't mean just repeat a lot of times, it means repeat at that specific rhythm, whether eighth, sixteenth, thirty-secondth, etc. 

[counterpoint]

I wonder if this notation really means tremolo? 

If it does, this piece is really difficult to play!

[invictious]

I wonder if this notation really means tremolo? 

If it does, this piece is really difficult to play!

Indeed, it's somewhat contrapuntal.
It's like holding a note with a thumb, then playing repeated notes with the other fingers. It's an awkward skill to master, but for Liszt, it is pretty common.

Makes Bach easier too, for all those who moan and groan when they see Bach as the composer (me).

[tullfan]

Yes, repeat the note value of the flag for the duration of the longer note.

For example, a quarter note with one "tremolo" line would be played as two eighth notes, but if it had two lines it would be 4 sixteenth notes.

At least, this is the way I do it. Could be wrong, I guess.

But it doesn't mean just repeat a lot of times, it means repeat at that specific rhythm, whether eighth, sixteenth, thirty-secondth, etc.

1st of all, I would like to thank you all for your replies.
At first I thought that repeating the note with the tremolo in the way that Timothy 42b suggests was what I was supposed to do, however, playing the piece in this manner just sounded bizarre.

Indeed, it's somewhat contrapuntal.
It's like holding a note with a thumb, then playing repeated notes with the other fingers. It's an awkward skill to master, but for Liszt, it is pretty common.

Makes Bach easier too, for all those who moan and groan when they see Bach as the composer (me).

I doubt that these markings mean the same as they would in Liszt's music as this is extremely early music. Since I posted this I have listened to Glenn Gould playing this piece and he appears to ignore some of the markings and add trills, turns and sometimes glissandos to the others. This has led me to believe that Gibbons may have just wanted these notes to be sustained in some manner as the instruments in his day were not capable of andequate sustain.
Do you agree? You can follow this through with the score below to make up your own mind. I only posted the 1st section as I'm concerned that I may be breaking copyright if I post the whole thing (although with the music being so ancient it must surely be in the public domain).
Link to Gould playing:

He does a huge trill at bar 10 (which I've already posted) on the first note. The problem is I'm never sure whether Gould is actually following the score exactly and doing what you're supposed to do on these notes because he was such a nut that he could just be doing whatever he wanted.

[ramseytheii]

1st of all, I would like to thank you all for your replies.
At first I thought that repeating the note with the tremolo in the way that Timothy 42b suggests was what I was supposed to do, however, playing the piece in this manner just sounded bizarre.I doubt that these markings mean the same as they would in Liszt's music as this is extremely early music. Since I posted this I have listened to Glenn Gould playing this piece and he appears to ignore some of the markings and add trills, turns and sometimes glissandos to the others. This has led me to believe that Gibbons may have just wanted these notes to be sustained in some manner as the instruments in his day were not capable of andequate sustain.
Do you agree? You can follow this through with the score below to make up your own mind. I only posted the 1st section as I'm concerned that I may be breaking copyright if I post the whole thing (although with the music being so ancient it must surely be in the public domain).
Link to Gould playing:

He does a huge trill at bar 10 (which I've already posted) on the first note. The problem is I'm never sure whether Gould is actually following the score exactly and doing what you're supposed to do on these notes because he was such a nut that he could just be doing whatever he wanted.

You're right: these marks cannot possibly mean repeat the note.  I'm sorry to say I've never had to learn a piece from this era, but follow your good sense to realize they aren't tremolos.

Walter Ramsey

[timothy42b]

At first I thought that repeating the note with the tremolo in the way that Timothy 42b suggests was what I was supposed to do, however, playing the piece in this manner just sounded bizarre.

I agree, I don't see how it makes any sense to play it that way.

This kind of marking is fairly common in wind ensemble music and there it means to repeat the note at the tempo of the flag.  It's done to save ink and to improve readability. 

I wonder if it is possible this was not originally keyboard music?  It might make sense as a consort.  Also, is that the composer's markings, or has an editor added it later? 

[tullfan]

I agree, I don't see how it makes any sense to play it that way.

This kind of marking is fairly common in wind ensemble music and there it means to repeat the note at the tempo of the flag. It's done to save ink and to improve readability.

I wonder if it is possible this was not originally keyboard music? It might make sense as a consort. Also, is that the composer's markings, or has an editor added it later?

An excellent point, I've been researching it online and I can only find it categorized as harpsichord music, but this does raise the issue that maybe the markings are specific to the harpsichord or organ or some other instrument of the time. As for the marks being editorial, the cover of the book states that it has been transcribed and edited by Gerald Hendrie and the pieces have been selected from Volume XX of Musica Brittanica. Inside it says that the repeats are editorial but doesn't mention anything about the tremolo markings. Perhaps in 'Musica Brittanica' it is written as music for consort or in such a way that it can be adapted for solo or ensemble performance.
It's a puzzler, I'll check out the Musica Brittanica online and if I find anything illuminating I'll post it.
Thanks for the advice.

[landru]

I've checked my copy of the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book which has pieces by Byrd, Bull and other's from around that time. It says that the single slash is a slide from a third below the note, i.e. if the note on C was slashed, then you would play A-B-C as a "slide" or I guess, very quickly. It also mentioned that it could be before the beat.

The double-slash either means a pralltriller, mordent or a full-blown trill for the length of the note. The editor says it depends on the context (and probably the decision of the player). The examples the editor gave always began on the note above the note. So a double slash on a C could be:

• D-C-D-C with the first three notes either 32nd's or 16th's depending on the context. this would be what the editor would call a mordent
• D-C-D-C-D-C - the pralltriller? Again the first few notes being 32nd
• D-C with the D taking up half the value of the note, as you see in Bach with the single slash across the note

I have the book, but I haven't played a single thing from it since I bought it before I really knew what I was getting into. So I don't know how these suggestions hold up in practice.

P.S. In the editors preface there was a section about "repeating a single note as fast as you can" as a previous poster said happens in this music as well. But it was usually written out as a series of the notes and the performer (for example) could take them at double the speed if desired (with twice as many notes therefore).

Hope this helps!

[ramseytheii]

I've checked my copy of the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book which has pieces by Byrd, Bull and other's from around that time. It says that the single slash is a slide from a third below the note, i.e. if the note on C was slashed, then you would play A-B-C as a "slide" or I guess, very quickly. It also mentioned that it could be before the beat.

The double-slash either means a pralltriller, mordent or a full-blown trill for the length of the note. The editor says it depends on the context (and probably the decision of the player). The examples the editor gave always began on the note above the note. So a double slash on a C could be:

• D-C-D-C with the first three notes either 32nd's or 16th's depending on the context. this would be what the editor would call a mordent
• D-C-D-C-D-C - the pralltriller? Again the first few notes being 32nd
• D-C with the D taking up half the value of the note, as you see in Bach with the single slash across the note

I have the book, but I haven't played a single thing from it since I bought it before I really knew what I was getting into. So I don't know how these suggestions hold up in practice.

P.S. In the editors preface there was a section about "repeating a single note as fast as you can" as a previous poster said happens in this music as well. But it was usually written out as a series of the notes and the performer (for example) could take them at double the speed if desired (with twice as many notes therefore).

Hope this helps!

Thanks so much for the information.  Someone should put this on wikipedia.  Does it give names to the slashes?  Or does it just say they refer to different names (ie two slashes for a pralltrill, or mordant, etc)

Walter Ramsey

[landru]

Thanks so much for the information.  Someone should put this on wikipedia.  Does it give names to the slashes?  Or does it just say they refer to different names (ie two slashes for a pralltrill, or mordant, etc)

Walter Ramsey

I think the editor was the one who suggested the similarities to mordents and pralltrillers - I don't think he gave any name to the single slash and double slash. I'm sure that somebody practiced in early music could help us more! They've got to be out there somewhere...

[tullfan]

Thanks again Landru, great stuff. Walter Ramsey's right, you should try posting this information on Wikipedia, it's really helpful.