Dearth in the Repertoire: Schumann's Sonata op. 11

[goldentone]

After hearing it for the first time some months back,  I now ask, why is this masterpiece so underplayed and unappreciated?  It is quite a distinctive and romantic (in the truest sense) work, and certainly deserves to be among the usually performed Schumann works.

Your thoughts? 




 

[counterpoint]

I'm wondering too.

It's one of Schumann's best compositions. Perhaps it's too modern for the average audience? That's what Clara thought.

[soliloquy]

I'm wondering too.

It's one of Schumann's best compositions. Perhaps it's too modern for the average audience? That's what Clara thought.

Perhaps too modern when Clara was alive.

[counterpoint]

Perhaps too modern when Clara was alive.

Still nowadays *methinks*

[soliloquy]

I think Vinko Globokar would disagree.

[furtwaengler]

I've been looking at this sonata. It is fantastic, a personality like the symphonies.

I recently saw Yakov Kasman play it, coupled with another neglected work, the 1st Sonata of Rachmaninov (which I greatly prefer to the more famous 2nd). The Schumann deserves more performances!

[pianowolfi]

I've been looking at this sonata. It is fantastic, a personality like the symphonies.

I recently saw Yakov Kasman play it, coupled with another neglected work, the 1st Sonata of Rachmaninov (which I greatly prefer to the more famous 2nd). The Schumann deserves more performances!

Seconded! I love this Schumann sonata, and the Rach 1st is my favorite Sonata anyway. 

[mikey6]

None of the piano sonata are Schumann's best works.  Although like the symphonies they have the merits.  Personally I love dis sonata, especially the opening theme.
According to what I read, the first movt doesn't quite make a satisfying sonata form movt and the last movt has problems 'because of its wealth of material'.

[mariana_ontzanu]

Hello, my name is Mariana, I'm a piano techer from Romania and I'm searching somebody to help me by discussing about a work by Schumann:"Etude in form of variations on a theme from second part of VII Simphony. I don't know very well to use the form and if somebody can write something to me, I give my e-mail: mariana_ontzanu@yahoo.com

[prongated]

...I think it is underplayed because it's very difficult to learn? A friend of mine learned this sonata recently, and for her it's tricky to memorise...and this is coming from someone who had performed Carl Vine's second piano sonata from memory...

[goldentone]

...I think it is underplayed because it's very difficult to learn? A friend of mine learned this sonata recently, and for her it's tricky to memorise...and this is coming from someone who had performed Carl Vine's second piano sonata from memory...

It does look tricky.   I watched Vanessa Wagner's performance on YouTube and remember a lot of octave work and leaps.

[Nightscape]

I've heard this performed in concert, and now I remember nothing about the piece except that it didn't leave much of an impression.

I know that it is quite a challenge to learn and perform.  I would never do it though, there are a lot of other romantic works that would be more rewarding to learn for me.

I guess Schumann isn't my cup of tea.  I love his shorter piano works, but once I attended an all-Schumann piano recital with a friend and we almost died of boredom.... and of course the encore was a Schumann work too.

I guess it sounds a little too aloof for me.

[daniloperusina]

"..According to what I read, the first movt doesn't quite make a satisfying sonata form movt and the last movt has problems 'because of its wealth of material'"...

I've played it, and I'd like to give some of my opinions on it. I don't think the last movement has a wealth of material, it's rather a long succession of ideas wich is then repeated in a different key. And then it all ends with a coda. In between he takes you through a multitude of modulations, where for example the main theme (the chordal opening) goes through, I don't remember, 5, 6 or 7 different keys all together.

Sonata form, well, he follows standard (Beethoven etc) formal procedures almost to the letter. Strangest is perhaps the development, which he almost repeats note-by-note, but in a different key; sort of a "double development" section.

The second movement is a real jewel! Play it!

The third has this odd section in the middle, I think he headlines it ad-lib or something. Bizarre, and quite fun.

The reason I played it is because I have a recording of Pollini doing it. Amazing! And I really loved practicing and then performing it. However, I haven't heard any other recording that makes me like it. Also, I've heard it twice in concert, once with Leif-Ove Andsnes. And it was horrible!:) So, I've since started doubting that it really is a successful piece, at least in concert.

Whatever, I think it must be at least thought of as a problematic piece. It's written quite 'thick', and sometimes you can feel that Schumann seems a bit lost. Even when he isn't lost, you have to work very hard to bring out the musical contents. I mean, even harder than usual! It has a LOT of notes! Very difficult chordal stuff, like the "da-da-da--da-da-da--da-da-da-da" in mvt1 (know which one I mean?) which easily breaks your hands when you try to make it sound right!

Listening to Pollini, though, it all makes perfect sense. Not a single musical line is blurred. But that is ....difficult!

Memorywise, perhaps the last mvt is the greatest challenge, partly because of the very many keychanges.

[mikey6]

"..According to what I read, the first movt doesn't quite make a satisfying sonata form movt and the last movt has problems 'because of its wealth of material'"...

I've played it, and I'd like to give some of my opinions on it. I don't think the last movement has a wealth of material, it's rather a long succession of ideas wich is then repeated in a different key. And then it all ends with a coda. In between he takes you through a multitude of modulations, where for example the main theme (the chordal opening) goes through, I don't remember, 5, 6 or 7 different keys all together.

Sonata form, well, he follows standard (Beethoven etc) formal procedures almost to the letter. Strangest is perhaps the development, which he almost repeats note-by-note, but in a different key; sort of a "double development" section.

Well you take it up with Perahia then!
btw, I've got Pollini's rec coupled with the fantasie which I thought was awful until I heard Richter's.

[counterpoint]

btw, I've got Pollini's rec coupled with the fantasie which I thought was awful

Pollini's op.11 awful? You're joking?

I think, it's better than all Beethoven Sonatas, Pollini has recorded.

There is some lack of spontaneous wit in Pollini's recording(s). But I didn't found a better one of Schumann's wonderful op.11

Btw. Most of the themes in this Sonata come from Clara Schumann's "Ballet des Revenants" (Dance of the ghosts) op.5 no.4  Schumann was 25 years old when he wrote this Sonata, Clara 16!

[daniloperusina]

"..Well you take it up with Perahia then!"

How can I argue with him unless you post his entire analysis?

First movt starts with adagio introduction, which briefly returns in the development. Beethoven did the same with Pathetique.
Allegro starts with a theme in f#minor, then transition in ebminor (parallel key of Gbmajor, enharmonic equivalence of F#major), then second group in Amajor, parallel key of f#minor, which is as standard as it gets.

Development ends in F#major, recapitulation immediately follows in f#minor, then transition in c#minor, then second group in f#minor.

The main theme - second theme key-relationships are perfectly standard sonata form procedures. Is Perahia referring to the transitions as non-standard? Development section?

In Beethoven's Waldstein there is a very unsual thing: 1st theme Cmajor, 2nd Emajor. This mediant relationship was to become the trait of the romantic era, or so I've understood. I think the Waldstein was a first in that respect, and very non-standard sonata procedure.

[daniloperusina]

Oops! Sorry Mikey6, I misread! I thought it said something about 'standard sonata form'...'satisfying' is of course a different thing..

Still, can you post his comments? Would be interesting to read!

[goldentone]

Still nowadays *methinks*

counterpoint, that's an interesting thought about it being too modern even for today.  It is very different.  Quite a "heavy" piece I think, perhaps a reason for its limited performances.

danieloperusina, thank you for your comments.  I'll keep Pollini in mind.

I would like to add more to the discussion from the feedback, but I think I need more time.

Look for the sequel:   Dearth in the Repertoire Part II:  Schumann's Sonata op. 11 

Thanks all.