Composing a piece on someones name

[franz_]

Indeed, like we all know, Liszt composed a piece based on the name Bach. This I understand: B, A, C, H.   You have a theme of 4 notes.
But what after these letters? Which note is M f.e.  Which note is T, Y, Z, Q,... ?

I hope you understand my question and that you can help me.
So may be I could compose a piece based on someones name

[phil13]

as far as I know, the following letters are doable by translating from the German pronunciation:

A
B (B flat)
C
D
E
F
G
H (B natural)
S (E flat)

Phil

[dnephi]

Not all letters have musical letters.
H-B
B-Bb
A,C,D,E,F,G
Then, we has As- Eb.
That's all I know.

[mephisto]

S=Eb

[retrouvailles]

Messiaen was able to translate any letter into a musical note. He did this in his work "Des Canyons aux Étoiles". He translated pat of a bible quote into music (pianistimo would like this). By his translation, M = A flat and T = D. However, he didn't make use of Y, Z, or Q, so I can't tell you those. Try looking up his method of translation, possibly. Let me know which ones you need and I can look them up in the score.

[counterpoint]

Often it's easier to compose someone's phone number than his name 

[ramseytheii]

Indeed, like we all know, Liszt composed a piece based on the name Bach. This I understand: B, A, C, H.   You have a theme of 4 notes.
But what after these letters? Which note is M f.e.  Which note is T, Y, Z, Q,... ?

I hope you understand my question and that you can help me.
So may be I could compose a piece based on someones name

Since you may be interested, the first person to consciously use Bach's name in music was Bach himself.  Liszt followed his example,as did Schumann (S [E-flat], C, H (B natural), A) and many others.

People typically when doing this use only the letters that are translatable, but don't forget about all the syllables that are also possible: Do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, and ti.

Walter Ramsey

[pianowolfi]

As far as I know, Schumann composed the main theme of his piano concerto on the name Chiara (C-H(B NATURAL)-A (A), skipping the "R". Clara in italian. Christobal Halffter composed a theme and variations for cello on the name of a very generous local patron, Paul Sacher: eSACHERe (Es=e flat Re=d)

[retrouvailles]

Christobal Halffter composed a theme and variations for cello on the name of a very generous local patron, Paul Sacher: eSACHERe (Es=e flat Re=d)

Wasn't it Lutosławski that wrote the Sacher Variations? Or was it both of them? I'm not too familiar with Halffter's music.

Back on topic, what letters did you need translated into musical notes? I'm sure there is someone else that has devised some sort of translation besides the aforementioned composers.

[pianowolfi]

Wasn't it Lutosławski that wrote the Sacher Variations? Or was it both of them? I'm not too familiar with Halffter's music.

Yes, both of them did, you are right.

[pianistimo]

perhaps you could express those letters through rhythm instead - by using morse code for the letters that can't be expressed by note.  just an idea.

or, as people do today.  make the word a bit abstract and only use whatever letters are available.

or instead of composing the piece on their name - compose it around the notes that you can find in their name (combining first middle and last together).

[retrouvailles]

Or you could try composing a piece based on the sound of the person's name. John Coolidge Adams did this when he composed the piece "Lollapalooza". It is based on the pronunciation of that word.

[Bob]

You're composing a piece for DAD for Father's Day right?


There is some mnemonic idea, Buzan I think was the name of the guy who made it, that translates numbers 1-9 and 0 into the sounds of the letters.

Let's see...
1 = t, th, d
2 = n
3 = m
4 = r
5 = l
6 = j, soft g, etc.
7 = k, hard g, hard c, etc.
8 = f, v, ph
9 = p, b
0 = z, s, and soft c

There's more to it, but it does limit the numbers to 10.  Pretty close to a music scale.

Vowels, y, and h can be anywhere.

Franz would be FRNZ or 8420.


I don't know how the rest would work out, whether you number the major scale (too many numbers) or number the chormatic (too few numbers).

Do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, ti, do, re, mi
1  , 2,  3,  4,  5,  6,  7,  , 8,  9,  0

Do, di, re, ri, mi, fa, fi, sol, si, la, li, ti, do
1,  2,  3,  4,  5,   6,  7, 8,  9,  0


Oh well.   It almost works.  But almost isn't good enough.

Although, I suppose it really wouldn't matter.  If you put it over a major or minor scale, it sort of works.  And a composer might want to vary things -- a major third here, minor there, but still a third, still that letter.

Do  Re  Me/Mi  Fa  Sol  Le/La  Te/Ti  Do
1/8  2/9  3/0    4     5     6          7     8   


That seems as musical as using letters.  It's just luck that some names happen to work and others don't.  It's not like Schumann's hidden names were more than overlaid "code" from what I understand.


That means BOB is BB or 99 or Re-re.  A Bob motive.

[pianowolfi]

You're composing a piece for DAD for Father's Day right?

DAD would be the first theme of Rach's first sonata. Bob I would do: B- Do(C)- B Or B-So(G)- B, because the letter O appears in the syllable.

[gymnopedist]

Prokofiev used the last name of a friend in the second subject of the third sonata. Esche becomes E C B E, and in another piece Es C B E.

[Bob]

(resolves only to be friends with people whose names easily fit into music notes. )

Problem solved.

[Bob]

Guess who this would be?

D down8ve to D     G     C

Or ...
Re   downto Re    Sol    Do



And this one...
hiD  F  D  F   C
HiRe fa re fa  Do

[pianowolfi]

Guess who this would be?

D down8ve to D     G     C

Or ...
Re   downto Re    Sol    Do



And this one...
hiD  F  D  F   C
HiRe fa re fa  Do

AAARGHH I am lost no clue.

[gymnopedist]

Also, Ravel wrote a piece on the (full) name of Gabriel Fauré.

[Bob]

lol...

Re   downto Re    Sol    Do
would be...
9 or 2, but in this case 9... becaue the next one says "down to"
so...
9        2      5       1 or 8

that could be....back in letters I mean...
b/p     n      l         t/d/th   or...
b/p     n      l         f/ph/v       

Man, that DOES get confusing going backwards.    But it's there.

I suppose I should have said "up to" C/Do.     Which leaves...
b/p     n      l         f/ph/v       

It's someone's name on this thread.  Vowels don't count.  Y, H, W are included in the system but you can still use them.  The vowels and yhw's can go anywhere around the letter -- infront, inbetween, or at the end.  "Holy" would translate down just to L, for example.


So any guesses on this?
Re   downto Re    Sol    Upto Do
b/p     n      l         f/ph/v

It's supposed to be one word though.  BaN LoaF almost fits...  oBoe NoeL... dang... Long word.  I can't think of another word besides the original name.

I tell you in a day or so if no one gets it.


Bach would be BK or 97 or Re Ti.     

[will]

A      B        C         D           E         F        G
H      I         J         K            L        M        N
O      P        Q         R           S         T        U
V      W       X          Y          Z

A, H, O, V = A
B, I, P, W = B
C, J, Q, X = C  etc.

[pianowolfi]

lol...

Re   downto Re    Sol    Do
would be...
9 or 2, but in this case 9... becaue the next one says "down to"
so...
9        2      5       1 or 8

that could be....back in letters I mean...
b/p     n      l         t/d/th   or...
b/p     n      l         f/ph/v       

Man, that DOES get confusing going backwards.    But it's there.

I suppose I should have said "up to" C/Do.     Which leaves...
b/p     n      l         f/ph/v       

It's someone's name on this thread.  Vowels don't count.  Y, H, W are included in the system but you can still use them.  The vowels and yhw's can go anywhere around the letter -- infront, inbetween, or at the end.  "Holy" would translate down just to L, for example.


So any guesses on this?
Re   downto Re    Sol    Upto Do
b/p     n      l         f/ph/v

It's supposed to be one word though.  BaN LoaF almost fits...  oBoe NoeL... dang... Long word.  I can't think of another word besides the original name.

I tell you in a day or so if no one gets it.


Bach would be BK or 97 or Re Ti.     

Lol I think I get it. Man, your system is complicated .

[retrouvailles]

A      B        C         D           E         F        G
H      I         J         K            L        M        N
O      P        Q         R           S         T        U
V      W       X          Y          Z

A, H, O, V = A
B, I, P, W = B
C, J, Q, X = C  etc.

What about flats and sharps?

[Bob]

I was thinking raised or lowered might not matter as long as it's the same letter.


It's not my system.  Except for trying to make it work with a scale.  Some guy named Buzan.

It's sound based.  Consonant sounds.  There are little tricks to learning it.  t and d have one long stem, so that goes with 1.  n has two humps, so it goes with 2.  m has three.  4 ends in R.  5 looks like your hand if you hold it up.  6 looks like a g.  7 is part of the letter k, although it's a stretch I think.  8 looks like a cursive f.  9 looks like a p backwards.  Zero has the same beginning sound.


So I'm guessing....

Re   downto Re    Sol    Upto Do
b/p     n      l         f/ph/v
PiaNowoLFi has figured this one out?


Any ideas on this one?
hiD  F  D  F   LowC
HiRe fa re fa  LowDo

No, no, no..... I messed up.... It's....
I reeeeeally messed up...
Maybe not...   

HiRe  Fa  LowRe Fa LowDo
HiD  F D F  LowC

Would be...
9 4 2 4 1
b/d r n r t/d/th

Yes.  That's right.  Anyone got it?



HiRe  Fa  LowRe Fa LowDo
HiD  F D F  LowC
9 4 2 4 1
b/d r n r t/d/th

[Bob]

But why stop with just letters?  You could put punctuation in there too.   ! . ?


(puts on conspiracy hat)  You do know the 12-tone system was really used to send secret messages during the world wars don't you?  That's why it sounds like that.  You're just hearing information being passed.  I forget which side was using it though.   Must have been us if Schoenberg was doing it and the Nazi's banned it.  (takes off hat)    (sets hat down, glances at it sideways, and slowly slides away)

[Bob]

Dang... Pianowolf sounds good as an ostinato.  9258


I suppose... instead of scale steps, you could make those chord tones.  9258 of a certain chord.   Of a I chord, of a ii chord, etc.   It does start creating it's own melody if you add people's names together.

[Bob]

Works with chord progressions too.  You could weave a bunch of layers of meaning together.   Or just use it to generate ideas, motives.

[pianowolfi]

Dang... Pianowolf sounds good as an ostinato.  9258

Lol I like ostinatos. But I don't feel like solving all your note riddles at the moment. I am relaxing today

[rallestar]

A      B        C         D           E         F        G
H      I         J         K            L        M        N
O      P        Q         R           S         T        U
V      W       X          Y          Z

A, H, O, V = A
B, I, P, W = B
C, J, Q, X = C  etc.

Ravel composed his Menuet sur le nom d'Haydn (sp?) using that principle.

[pianowolfi]

I was thinking raised or lowered might not matter as long as it's the same letter.


It's not my system.  Except for trying to make it work with a scale.  Some guy named Buzan.

It's sound based.  Consonant sounds.  There are little tricks to learning it.  t and d have one long stem, so that goes with 1.  n has two humps, so it goes with 2.  m has three.  4 ends in R.  5 looks like your hand if you hold it up.  6 looks like a g.  7 is part of the letter k, although it's a stretch I think.  8 looks like a cursive f.  9 looks like a p backwards.  Zero has the same beginning sound.


So I'm guessing....

Re   downto Re    Sol    Upto Do
b/p     n      l         f/ph/v
PiaNowoLFi has figured this one out?


Any ideas on this one?
hiD  F  D  F   LowC
HiRe fa re fa  LowDo

No, no, no..... I messed up.... It's....
I reeeeeally messed up...
Maybe not...   

HiRe  Fa  LowRe Fa LowDo
HiD  F D F  LowC

Would be...
9 4 2 4 1
b/d r n r t/d/th

Yes.  That's right.  Anyone got it?



HiRe  Fa  LowRe Fa LowDo
HiD  F D F  LowC
9 4 2 4 1
b/d r n r t/d/th

Ahh I got it. BERNHARD

[Bob]

 

The melodies seem like they're stretched out though, big jumps.  Maybe those could just be the most important notes.  It's not like finding words in the A-G music alphabet is any better.

[pianowolfi]

I' m working on an ostinato thing 9258, hee hee *dances around piano*

[Bob]

High-Re, Down-to-low-Re, High-Mi, Low-Do, Low-Mi


In C...


              E
D
                           
       D                     E
                   C   
 

I suppose you could just squish it down to CCECE but it's hard to figure it out backwards.

[pianowolfi]

High-Re, Down-to-low-Re, High-Mi, Low-Do, Low-Mi


In C...


              E
D
                           
       D                     E
                   C   
 

I suppose you could just squish it down to CCECE but it's hard to figure it out backwards.

92013 Pianistimo

[Bob]

I thought that looked like a zip code.  "Pianistimo 92013" the tv series.


Hmmm.... What would a triad be?  Alberti? 
1535
t/d/th l m l

Supposed to be one word.  Something concrete.
t l m l
d l m l
th l m l

(gives up)  Ok, a triad...
t l m
d l m   dilemma, but that's not concrete
th l m


tal, tel, til, tol, tul.... Ptolemy?   There must be something better.  I was never good at this part.
dal, del, dil, dol, dul
thal, thel, thil, thol, thul....

Ptolemy is the best I can come up with for a triad.  Any other ideas?

[pianowolfi]

Dang... Pianowolf sounds good as an ostinato.  9258

LOL here it is.

[Bob]

Cool. 
(hoping I didn't mess up the translation)

It's interesting how you play it differently.  I played it a little slower with just long notes in the bass.  Totally different character.

[pianowolfi]

Cool. 
(hoping I didn't mess up the translation)

It's interesting how you play it differently.  I played it a little slower with just long notes in the bass.  Totally different character.

Would you mind posting it?

[Bob]

lol   I didn't record anything.

Just play the ostinato a little slower, maybe q=60, in 16ths.  Wait a bit.  Then play a low tonic note.  That's all I had.