Progressive Repertoire, another difficulty ranking :-\

[silyaznfoo]

I'm trying to decide what to play before I go to college and leave my piano behind 

Pieces I've learned: entire Moonlight, Nocturne 9/2 by Chopin, Bach P/F f minor and d minor(book 2), P/F in e minor book 1 and concerto in f minor (1st/2nd mov't), Rachmaninoff 23/5

Pieces I want to learn: Pathetique (only 1st mov't), Waldstein, Chopin 10/3 and 10/12, 25/11, Polonaise in Ab and F# minor, Sonata no.3, All the Ballades, Brahms op. 117, Rachmaninoff 32/10, Liszt HR #2, Un Sospiro, Mazeppa, La Campenella

I have pretty much exactly two years. I've played for about 5 years now and I have a handspan of one octave. I won't be able to practice much more than 1 hour a day, usually less b/c school work. I can probably learn 20-30 minutes of music in half a year, maybe more.

[phil13]

Unfortunately, I have some serious doubts that you (or anyone, for that matter, at your level) can learn all of this in only 2 years. It's simply too much difficult music. The Chopin Sonata, F# minor Polonaise, Heroic Polonaise, all 4 ballades, Beethoven's Waldstein, Liszt's Mazeppa and La Campanella to boot? That sounds like a 4-year grad school wish list. 

Phil

[silyaznfoo]

Oh I think you misunderstood me, I wanted a difficulty ranking to see which ones I could possibly learn in 2 years. I plan on trying to tackle the Mazeppa etc. in a year and 6 months. Does the 10/3 and 32/10 + Pathetique sound good for the next half year or so? I also have exams etc.

[cloches_de_geneve]

It's impossible to compare these pieces in terms of difficulty because they are so different, including length and varying degrees of musical complexity...

But if you are only interested in the base technical level necessary to address them, and you want some extremely crude estimate, then a ranking might look like this (from easiest to most difficult)


Pathethique
op. 117
op. 10/3
op. 10/12
Un sospiro
Chopin Polonaises
Waldstein
Ballades (3,2,1,4)
25/11
Chopin Sonata 3
Campanella
HR 2
Mazeppa

[silyaznfoo]

I see... thanks. And the Rachmaninoff? probably right after 10/12?

[Kassaa]

Waldstein tops every work listed in difficulty imo.

[silyaznfoo]

No bias there, judging from your sig  Yea, doubt I can get to that or Mazeppa in two years 

Btw, where would Hammerklavier mov't 3 (It doesn't sound too difficult, but is an octave reach enough?) Rach 23/2, 23/7, 32/2, 32/4, 32/6, 32/8 go?

Is there a general ranking of Rach's preludes/etudes anywhere?

[rallestar]

Don't touch the Hammerklavier!! The 3rd movement is incomprehensibly deep and difficult.

I agree that Waldstein is harder than most of the other works listed - One who can learn Waldstein can surely learn, say, La Campella. Waldsteins lenght too make it tough.

As for those Rachmaninoff preludes, 23/2 is very hard. I don't think 23/7 is quite that hard, but still, I'd go with some other pieces first. I'm not that familiar with the other preludes listed, and haven't heard of a ranking.

[silyaznfoo]

Well, I know the 3rd movement is deep musically, but what about technically? I'm not going to start it right away.

[rallestar]

I'm not sure of its technical difficulties. But I would strongly advise against considering this piece in the 2-year frame you have. There are other great and beautiful pieces you can learn instead.

[nanabush]

All I can tell you is stay the hell away from Rach 32/4... I got a book of the preludes, and I'm playing a couple, and dear god I'm sure it's one of the toughest if not the most difficult...

[cloches_de_geneve]

Waldstein tops every work listed in difficulty imo.

Sure, in OVERALL terms, the Waldstein is the most difficult of the list, along with Chopin 3rd sonata and the 4th Ballade.

But I thought the question was "difficulty" purely in terms of required manual/dexterity skills -- and of THAT campanella requires a lot, more than most of the list.

[nanabush]

If you got a question from the rach etudes, I've listened to them many times, and I've played a bunch of 'em, pm me   Preludes I know decently well, and have played a bunch too, could probly help answer some questions about them.

[silyaznfoo]

Hmm could you rank all the etudes you played and all the preludes you've played in terms of technical difficulty? A ranking of the two together and separately, if you have time, would be nice.

[nanabush]

Erm... Op 33 etudes; easier ones are generally the #3 C major, and G minor.  I have played the G minor, Eb major, and D minor, I'd say G minor is easiest, followed by Eb major, followed by D minor (mostly because of the climax on the final page).  The latter two are probably in the middle for op 33 etudes.  From opus 39 I have played C major.  I worked on this one on my extra time, and found it's technique not as much as the Eb major and D minor from 33, but it's generally more work, it's a 'bigger' piece.  I'm also working on C minor #7 with my teacher, and have finished #8 in D minor.  annyyways... I'd rank them like this:

G minor op 33, Eb major op 33, D minor op 33, C major op 39, (C minor and D minor op 39 are equally tough... the C minor has monster chord passages for most of it, and D minor is all double note patterns, does not stick to thirds or sixths.)

It's super late here I'm too lazy right now to order the preludes I've played, but maybe tomorrow 


ps.  All of the etudes are AMAZING, most of the preludes are ... they have completely different techniques, but I find the 'tougher' techniques like massive chords and double notes, are HELL in the preludes... Some etudes are at the top with a couple preludes, but each have their own difficulties over each other

[silyaznfoo]

More specifically, a ranking of these movements/pieces would help greatly, I'm probably going to start the Pathetique, 32/10, 10/3 and a Bach WTC piece right now, trying to plan what to play in the next year or two right now.

Beethoven: Waldstein Movements 1,2,3, the easiest movement of his late sonatas (29-32), Hammerklavier 3rd Movement

Brahms: 117/1, 117/3, 79/1, 79/2

Chopin: 10/12, 25/11, FI, Polonaise in Ab Major, Polonaise in F# Minor, Ballade #3

Liszt: Liebstraume 2,3, Un Sospiro

Rachmaninoff: Not sure yet, probably some preludes/etude tableaux.

Also does anybody have any recommendations for a Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev or Schumann piece that are around my level or not harder than say the Chopin Ballades? I like all of these composers but I haven't found any good pieces to learn by them. An overall rank of all the listed pieces would be extremely helpful. Thanks again in advance.

[etudes]

stay away from waldstein unless you have at least 16 sonatas of beethoven in your hands otherwise you will just rape it....it is not just playing the notes....I have heard too many raped waldstein 

[silyaznfoo]

I see. Btw what's the easiest HR/Liszt etude?

[etudes]

I see. Btw what's the easiest HR/Liszt etude?

for the etude the concert etude ab irato or the op.1 set would be a good start.....I am familiar with all HRs so I cant really say or put it in order

[silyaznfoo]

You mean unfamiliar? Btw, which is easier, the Ballade #3 or Polonaise in Ab or Polonaise in F#m?

[etudes]

You mean unfamiliar? Btw, which is easier, the Ballade #3 or Polonaise in Ab or Polonaise in F#m?

hahaha true....I am not familiar....(forgot to type not) it is 1.28 am. now...well....it is hard to say for me..but if you want to tackle all 4 ballades...I would start with 2nd pretty forward some tough parts (esp.coda) but you will have some fun and gain something from it more than the 3rd  (IMHO)

[silyaznfoo]

Well I don't think playing all the ballades is realistic atm, maybe you can give me better advice in the morning   

[cloches_de_geneve]

I see. Btw what's the easiest HR/Liszt etude?

Actually, I am myself curious about the relative difficulties of the HR. It probably does not make sense to rank them in a conventional way, but could anyone put them in three groups, such as:

1. Most difficult:
2. Intermediate:
3. Less difficult:


Thanks.

PS: As far as the TE are concerned, I believe that 1,3, 9, 11 are manageable; as for the remaining ones, I can just wish you good luck, and for 4,5, and 12 also good health!!

[silyaznfoo]

Yea, I'd also like my pieces ranked that way if it is easier.

[thorn]

I see. Btw what's the easiest HR/Liszt etude?

the op 1 etude en 12 exercises are the easiest liszt etudes, next to those it depends on the individual- i mean someone in one thread (unsure if it was on here) classed the 8th transcendental etude (Wilde Jagd) as an easy liszt etude, which in my opinion is just a lie.

personally i would list TE nrs 1,3,6,11 along with un sospiro and gnomenreigen as the easier liszt etudes

[silyaznfoo]

Hey nanabush, could you post that rank of the preludes you were talking about? Thanks.

[maxy]

the op 1 etude en 12 exercises are the easiest liszt etudes, next to those it depends on the individual- i mean someone in one thread (unsure if it was on here) classed the 8th transcendental etude (Wilde Jagd) as an easy liszt etude, which in my opinion is just a lie.

personally i would list TE nrs 1,3,6,11 along with un sospiro and gnomenreigen as the easier liszt etudes

Maybe I did say TE 8 was one of the easier études. Not plain easy.  1,3,6 are the easiest, I put 8 right after.  7-10-11 all gave me more trouble.  4-5 are beasts.  I used to put 12 up there with the beasts, but with time, I find it's not that bad.  I even may start to consider that TE 2 is harder than 12.

I am biased.  TE 7 is not that hard, but I found it a bit boring, so it was hard on motivation.  I found 10 emotionally hard to manage.  So in all fairness, in a cold evaluation, some may find 8 quite a bit harder than what I make it.  But hey, I had so much fun with it that I never felt it was THAT hard.    Maybe I was too young to realize.  I sure wish I had played most Chopets at that time.  Now I find these very hard.