Thumb Position and Speed

[landru]

Joynes post (https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,25512.msg288453.html#msg288453  ) on her ring finger problems reminded me of what my teacher told me last night and I'd like some other people's opinions on what she said.

My teacher is very big on hand position (which I like - I had 20 years of self-taught bad habits to get over...). However there is one thing which she says will stop me from playing fast pieces. Apparently my thumb when it is striking the keys (and in its rest position) is bent outwards at its top joint. Now, I noticed when I was a very young kid that my thumb at its top joint bends backward almost 90 degrees without any strain, which is not a very common thing. Most people's thumbs can only bend back on the order of 20-30 or so degrees.

So it really is part of my anatomy that the tip of my thumb in its natural resting position bends out a little. In fact, to bring it back in (and so the whole thumb is parallel to the keys) is a conscious muscle contraction - which could be a source of tension. Here is a rough diagram (since I don't have a camera where I'm posting this)

Most people's normal thumb position on the right hand looking down at the keyboard:

   |
   |
    \

My thumb position (the top joint in reality is smaller and just a little less of an angle than the slashmark) :

  \
  |
   \

But my question, could this thumb quirk really limit my speed? I don't think my teacher realizes that this is a result of anatomy and I'm not consciously trying to put my thumb out of skew. The reasons why it could affect my speed that I could come up with is that I have to pay more attention to placing my thumb more precisely. But doesn't that come with practice in any case?

Right now I there are no fast pieces in my repertory (partly because I'm still a beginner/intermediate and partly because my teacher won't assign them). I am finishing Mozart's K545 and I have absolutely no problem doing the scale passages (or any other passage) in the first movement at an allegro (up to 100 bpm per 1/4 note). The thumb doesn't seem to get in my way at all.

I'm stumped...does my teacher have a point and should I invest more time to counteract my natural thumb position? Or, should I live with my thumb the way it is? If the second, what are some points to bring up to her to give me a shot at keeping my thumb the way it is?

Thanks!

[pet]

Hi landru,

This post reminded me of my second piano teacher from 6 years ago, which was the first teacher to point out my thumb position!  (which I never really noticed by the way)  Yes the thumb should be pointing inwards instead of outwards, but for some people it's just not that way.  When I play scales, my thumb is curved outward, but I have absolutely no problem playing fast, and speed happens to be my strongest characteristic.

My first teacher was very big on scales and exercises, and this is what helped me with speed, so this is what I would suggest.  Also, since I was good in playing fast, my first piano teacher assigned many fast pieces, and this is probably why I hate slow pieces to this day...ha!  You just have to get use to playing with your thumb that way, and eventually your thumb will learn.  It's just like learning a new technique....first it's very hard, but with practice, you hands adjust.

- Pet

[landru]

Thanks pet! It's good to know that there is someone out there like me and my thumb AND who plays fast pieces. I think I will bring it up to my teacher that my thumb's natural position is what it is and if you look at me on fast scales, that it does what it needs to do and doesn't get in the way....maybe if I make a video of my hand somehow...

I think my main problem with playing fast is that I've just never tried to do it, I always had too many other problems to deal with so I've also played slow to medium pieces. Worrying about the first joint of my thumb seems like it should be way far down on the list