Being a musician is financially IMPOSSIBLE

[thalberg]

I just spoke with someone in the PS chatrooms who told me he is about to be a freshman at NEC next year.  He got 28K per year in scholarships and still needs to come up with another 20K per year.  So for those of you who told me my numbers were off, here is evidence they were not so much.

[gfiore]

 Your #'s are not off. I went to Shenandoah College and Conservatory in the early 1980's on a keyboard scholarship. I had to come up with an additional $6,000 per year. At the present time, even with a scholarship, it would be more like an additional $15,000 per year.  Out of state tuition is $39,000 per year now.

[ultraviolet]

Thank you!  Thalberg's numbers are not off.  All these people from socialist countries can't understand that in America we actually have to pay for things.  And that makes it financially suck for musicians.  Damn!

[nyonyo]

Could you guys just go for a bachelor degree in piano performance and then take private lesson to prepare for a piano competition. You may not get a teaching position in a college. But who cares, any way, as you had mentioned earlier that piano professors do not make monies. Therefore, is not it better concentrate on your performance ability and then join a competition. If you win, you can make good monies from teaching non college students. Actually, I even know a famous teacher in Hacienda Heights area in CA, he has only bachelor in piano performance and then master in composition from UCLA. He does not even play well, he just knows how to teach well. He makes tons of monies by teaching Asian kids in that area.

If I were you guys, I would have quit from trying to get a doctorate degree. Just be practical and enjoy playing piano. What is the reason of having a doctorate degree, yet still cannot have a decent living.

[amelialw]

lol... to me there is no point getting a doctorate either considering the fact that you have to spend so much. After completing a B.A just find a really good teacher. I'm not even doing my B.A yet but i'm already learning so many things that are taught to students who are taking their B.A Degrees in performance.

You can earn just as much doing that..

[gerry]

Actually, I even know a famous teacher in Hacienda Heights area in CA, he has only bachelor in piano performance and then master in composition from UCLA. He does not even play well, he just knows how to teach well. He makes tons of monies by teaching Asian kids in that area.

Yeah but there aren't a lot of asian kids in my area - can I make as much teaching Irish and Polish kids?

[nyonyo]

If you want to have a steady income from teaching piano, you need to move to an area where Asians congregate. Asian parents (especially Chinese including Taiwanese, Japanese, and Korean) are the continuous source of income for piano teachers in the States. When I went to see the SYMF piano competition, 99.99% of the participants are Asian kids. Most of them are kids of FOBs  fresh of the boat people).

They will force their kids to take piano lesson, regardless whether their kids like to play piano or not. Asian parents are not interested in making their kids play sport. They want their kids to just study and playing musical instrument. When they cannot do well in school, they may start bringing their kids to do sport. Note, only the FOB  parents have discipline and consistency in making their kids practice piano like crazy. Those who grew up in the States will lose their persistency to force their kids to do this kind of thing. They will behave like Americans who take piano lesson only for several months during summer. Of course, however, it is just a generalization. But it is true.

To summarize: A lot of Asian kids = a lot of monies for piano teachers. Isn't it simple!!!

Forget to mention that Piano stores will also have a lot of sales. However, the margin may be low, because Asian will not easily be ripped off by piano salesmen. They will bargain inccesantly until they get decent price.

Forget one more thing....Asian FOB kids are very easy to teach..They are obidient, do not talk back and usually has stable emotional state (except those who go berserk because of too much preassure like what happened in Virginia Tech). It is generally difficult to teach kids from a broken family. They are usually unhappy kids due to family situation, not to mention they often forget their piano books, the typical excuse is "I forget my book the books are in his or her dad house  or in their mom's house". Or the mother will say  "Sorry I cannot pay the tuition yet, because  my ex-husband has not transfered the child support for this month".

[gerry]

I'm at somewhat of a loss to respond to this post. The enthnocentric implications are palpable. I would hope that most teachers not have the preconceptions that you do when taking on a new student. Your assumptions: 1) first generation Asian students are obedient, diligent, emotionally stable, and practice like crazy (no matter that their parents "force" them to); 2) second generation Asians are less so because they've learned to behave more like Americans; and, as such, are more lazy; 3) children from broken familes lie, make excuses, can't pay, etc.  Disturbing demographics to say the least (if true). I'm more concerned as to what extent your preconcieved judgments might be unconsciously transfered to your students as you work with them; i.e., if you expect the best/worst that's what you will get. I'd be interested to hear from other teachers about these generalizations, if you agree or disagree, and to what extent these demographics influence you in seeking new students.

[thalberg]

LOL!!

Actually, I have heard what nyonyo said before.  Miss Olga, famous piano teacher from Ohio, says that asian parents are the one type of person we can rely on as piano teachers.  Another asiain friend of mine said if you want to make a living as a piano teacher, get in with the asian community.  She said "I know a teacher who's "in" with the Koreans, and she wears Versace all the time."

Mind you, I personally would not make such generalizations--partly because I don't have the experience to do so.  I have taught whites, asians, blacks, and everything else and the particular asians in my studio were no different than the other races.  Actually, I've only had maybe 8 truly obedient and disciplined students whom I didn't have to nag all the time.  7 were white and one was black. 

[nyonyo]

I said this based on my 20 years observation. Most likely, I have dealt with many more students from diverse etnicities than virtually anybody here.  I would like to reiterate what I said. You did not reiterate my points as I intended.


Item 1 is close to the absolute truth.
Item 2 is also closed to absolute truth, second generation Asians have much more freedom, I did not say that they are lazy. They just have a choice, not like their friends whose parents just immigrated. They have no choice, their freedom will be bestowed when their parents are tired of enforcing what they want from the children.
Item 3 is also the truth...They did not lie, their life is just much more complicated because they usually live in two houses, yet they only have one set of piano books. They do not have two sets of books, one that stays at dad's house and the other at mom's house. Once again, they do not lie, they just move from one house to the other all the time. Little kids will not remember this kind of things.  

My preconcieved judgement gives me direction on how to handle each cases. By having this knowledge in your mind, you will be able to anticipate or you will know how to deal with both types of students.

Ideally, I do not like broken home students and students who do not go to a private school.  Many of newly immigranted students' parents do not even have decent job, but their attitude toward education is examplary, once again Asian especially.

I do not have tons of time to teach every single students and have no intention to convert a problem child to become an angel, I chose my students based on my past experience. From my 20 years experience of dealing with kids, I usually can discern the little devils from the little angels. I ain't picking little devils.....I leave the little devils for others to deal.

[nyonyo]

More Detail Generalization of Asian students. This is based on my 20 years dealing with Asian kids and families:

1. Asian Indian (not American Indian) - Their fingers are not built to play piano. Very smart, just their fingers are twisted all the time. I do not know how to correct this problem. I gave up. Among so many, only one who can play pretty well.
2. Japanese - Amazing hearing and very diligent as well as consistent. I love their Christmas gifts, very very generous and respectful to teacher.
3. Korean - Once they want to do something, they will not stop until they get it. Sometimes, however, can be rather arrogant.
4. Chinese - combination of Japanese and Korean characteristic, but not for XMAS gift though.
5. Philipino - Amazing hearing, very emotioanal, very good in rhythm, the only problem is not good in reading.
5. Thai and Cambodian - playing piano are not what they like to do.
7. Vietnamese - similar to Chinese, but with more personality. Some are weak in reading though.
6. Indonesian and Malaysian - not enough population in the USA.

Forget to mention, for competition, number 2,3 and 4 are very promising!!

[gerry]

Whew! After previewing you last two entries I'm almost speechless--I said almost. It seems you have succeeded in pigeon-holing the entire Asian community. I wonder how far back into the family ancestry you delved in order to assure the purity of your conclusions.  Ethnic generalizations have never served society very well in the past and I don't believe they can be very beneficial to the teaching community. Attention all teachers, be sure and elicit all ethnic information upfront before taking on students - you can save much valuable time and effort. Don't bother with Asian Indians (twisted fingers) Philipinos (don't read well) Thais and Cambodians (don't like to play piano); but, Japanese (great Xmas gifts). Of course you haven't observed enough other types (Indonesian, Malayasians) to pass judgment on but when you do, I'm sure you'll find something wrong with them. Excuse me if I don't show much respect for your 20 years of careful, if somewhat dubious, observations on the human race. I find it absurd and I disagree strongly with you--but then that's what this forum is all about. Good luck, and enjoy those presents.

[thalberg]

Nyonyo, that post was so hilarious I almost dropped my computer on the floor.  The twisted fingers and the Christmas gifts were my favorites parts.  I'm laughing so hard I can barely type.

Meanwhile, you definitely have a lot to teach us about how to make money!  How about if I hire you to screen my students?  LOL.

[nyonyo]

Gerry,

You may not agree with my 20 years of very successful observation.
But I hope this observation will be useful for open minded people.

In science, everthing starts with generalization, later we find exceptions. If you start everything with exception, you never come to a general conclusion. I think you are a person who likes to see all exceptions but never come up with a general conclusion.

To test my theory, get some Asian Indian students first, teach them for several months, and get back to me whether you find their fingers are not built to play for piano or not. Don't just spit out disagreement without observation!!! I am a very observant person.
And close to XMAS get some Japanese students, and test my observation again!!

Good luck with your observation and hope you can come up with a conclusion to better off your piano teaching business.

Forget to mention, I deal only with pure Asian, I never had mixed Asian students, either they are pure chinese or pure vietnamese. Therefore, my sample purity is first rated.


Thalberg,
It will cost you to hire me as your screener....I am very effective in screening both students and parents. 

[gerry]

Forget to mention, I deal only with pure Asian, I never had mixed Asian students, either they are pure chinese or pure vietnamese. Therefore, my sample purity is first rated.

Is it acceptable to add the cost of the DNA test to the tuition or will I have to absorb it as part of doing business?

[amelialw]

it is true though that somehow asian kids are more prone to suceed as pianists. Take a look a majority of the students that go for exams be it theory or practical. Even though i'm here in canada when I go for exams at least aboyt 90% are chinese and the rest are a mix of the other cultures.

My teacher's career has been very sucessful so far...she carefully picks out the most promising students and they are all chinese

Look at all the names that win competitions they are chinese students

[nyonyo]

Is it acceptable to add the cost of the DNA test to the tuition or will I have to absorb it as part of doing business?

Debate with your brain!!! Don't act like a little girl...

[jlh]

it is true though that somehow asian kids are more prone to suceed as pianists. Take a look a majority of the students that go for exams be it theory or practical. Even though i'm here in canada when I go for exams at least aboyt 90% are chinese and the rest are a mix of the other cultures.

My teacher's career has been very sucessful so far...she carefully picks out the most promising students and they are all chinese

Look at all the names that win competitions they are chinese students

Are you Chinese then?  Or not her most promising variety? 

[amelialw]

yes I am singaporean chinese.

[jlh]

Ok then... you must be pretty promising!  You're very modest too which is a good quality to have...   

[amelialw]

thanks!

You're very modest too which is a good quality to have...   
this is the 1st time anyone ever said this to me well except my teacher...lol

[jlh]

Insert a wee bit of sarcasm in my last post and it's about right.  I'm sure your teacher wasn't being sarcastic, though. 

[thalberg]

Debate with your brain!!! Don't act like a little girl...

Nyonyo, your lines are classic.  You must be so funny in real life.  I would like to meet you.

(gerry, I do not think your'e a little girl or anything, I just think it was a funny line)

[gerry]

Thanks Thal, although I didn't for a second take the remark seriously. Actually after viewing some of the recent YouTubes, I have nothing but respect for little girls. Does this mean we add a little sexism to his ethnocentrism   Since I have a tendency to be somewhat gullible, I'm desperately waiting to be told that the entirety of his postings were a monumental joke - please tell me it's so. In any case, having come from a different generation, following this thread has been a real education for me. I had no idea how pervasive this ethnic typing was throughout the teaching profession. Believing that discretion is the better part of valor, I deleted several emotional responses prior to posting and decided to step back and cool off.

[nyonyo]

Never did in my life that I rejected any kinds of students. I used to (not anymore, and I also do not teach anylonger) work for a music school, therefore, I really did not have any choice. I had to accept any students that they assinged to me.

I did  not care what race they are, I enjoy teaching all kinds of people. It enriches me by  dealing with all kinds of races. But I really like to observe their personalities and often talked to their parents. My students loved me, many took lesson from me for 8 to 9 years. They threw me a farewell party when I decided to move to pursue better positions in Illinois . By the way, teaching piano was only my main objective for the first six years of my life in the USA.  And then after that, I really did not need to teach anymore. However, I still taught on weekend just for fun, but after moving to Illinois, I'd rather practice piano for a piano competition.

Over the span of teaching in the States for 17 years, I could easily taught about 300 students. I taught both group lesson and private lesson. The group lesson that really boost my number. Once the students are done with 2 years group lesson, I chose the ones whom I thought had talent regardless of the race, background, etc. Whomever I chose were good students, and they always fell into my generalization that I posted earlier. Therefore, my conclusions are not based on ill willing or something like that. 

Now I give you a more logical example why my earlier assertions make sense:

1. How many kids with twisted finger can last for more than two years playing piano. It must be very tiring for themselves to keep practicing piano when their fingers got twisted naturally everytime they practice. Again, I do not know why nearly all Asian Indian kids have twisted fingers. As a piano teacher, you know when a kid has good finger form or not. These Indian kids just have the scariest finger form. When you see their finger form on a keyboard, you know right away that they will hard time to play well.

2. It is very very frustrating for those kids who are not good in reading, at the beginning they can play easy pieces, but once they need to play Bach minuet, they will give up.

3. Please remember NORMAL little kids learn very slow. However, the talented ones can learn fast. But there are not so many talented kids. Most of them are just normal. Now if they are only NORMAL kids, they need help from the parents, what happened if both parents keep fighting all the time (not so many divorced parents have harmonious relationship, once again there are some but very few), therefore, nobody can help them so they cannot play well in the next lesson while others play well. They will quit by themselves. They will hate piano. 

4. Why Japanese, Chinese and Korean as well as Vietnamese students whose parents just immigarted to the States progress very fast? It is their culture NOT to blame others if they do not progress. They blame themselve. They will infer that they did not practice enough, be more attentive. Never will they blame the teacher. Teacher is a respectful profession in those countries. The kids will never disrespect the teacher, if the parents found out that their kids being disrespectful, they will have no hesistancy to punish the kids in front of the teacher. It happened to one of my private students. In addition, these three culture really put burden on the mother to ensure that the kids are succesful. You can imagine a caucasian husband does this to his wife. Caucasian women will flip. Oops, forget to mention...I did enjoy the gifts from my students. Once again this is an Asian culture, if you respect someone, you give gifts. The more important the person, the better the gifts. Unfortunately, piano teachers are not considered the most important teacher in their list, since we did not give their kids grade.

Now, since most of you will not have a chance to observe  300 students to find out their behaviors, characteristics etc. Why don't you give a try to utilize conclusion drawn from 20 years teaching experiences with all kinds of races. Don't get rid all of your students yet, but start with the new ones. I guarantee you will have more fun teaching piano.....less headache, and more monies as well as fame....What an ideal situation, is not it....

Gerry, I agree with your observation. Little girls are better students than little boys. For any reason, boys develop very slow at young age. Therefore, I have to add to my generalization list that accepting little girls is a better choice than accepting little boys. Now you start having better observation!!! I am proud of you!!!

[ryanyee]

not in this case. who says you need a bachelor or degree? you can just teach yourself when you think you've enough experience. i don't think Beethoven or Mozart started their life in a rich family but they became musicians in the end.

[thalberg]

T  Since I have a tendency to be somewhat gullible, I'm desperately waiting to be told that the entirety of his postings were a monumental joke - please tell me it's so.

Haha.... I thought the postings were hilarious and assumed he was joking.  Though I must say, I had a Chinese friend in school, and he made quite a lot of racial generalizations about Japanese, Koreans, and all other Asians.  I don't know.....maybe it's an Asian thing to stereotype other Asians?  I mean, as an American I stereotype other Americans--West Coast, East Coast, Southerners....I have all sorts of assumptions about these people.

[gerry]

Just an assumption by a non-Asian--perhaps it's partially due to the fact that westerners often view all Asians as one type and that they purposely look for and stress the differences between the various nationalities. That said, however, I would hope for something more socialogically germane than the generalities offered by nyonyo before I passed any judgments.

[nyonyo]

It is understandable why you view Asian as one type. Because among the caucasian nationalities in America the defining lines are virtually disappear. However, for Asian the lines are still clearly defined. Asian (excluding the Chinese who came at turn of centuries as a railroad worker) just arrived less than 40 years ago. Therefore, it is still very easy to see the differences among them.

That said, you do not have keen sense to discern the differences as we Asian who just came. For example, I can actually discern physical appearance of Polish, Irish, German, French, etc. As long as they are still pure. Once you mix these people, it will become difficult to discern. When I was still in CA, I virtually had no interaction with  Polish. For the last four years in Chicago, I met and interacted with so many Polish, I think they do have distinctive personality compared to others. They are very warm and friendly, regardless whether  they were born in the States or just came from Poland.

If you are waiting for something socialogically germane, you most likely wont see it. It is very politically incorrect to talk about this kind of thing. I will never talk candidly like this with my co-workers. They will label me as racist etc. Therefore, you need to be more observant for this kind of thing. Don't expect a scientist will come up with this kind of study. Be more observant and objective. I do not judge one race based on one interaction with one person. I look for THEIR behavior pattern and take a conclusion so that I can be ready to face a similar situation.

[jolly]

A few notes....

1. Tuition at many Southern U.S. schools is less than $4k/yr. In fact, if you ae a resident of the state and have decent grades and entrance exam scores, tuition is free. There are some decent public school music departments...Florida, Troy State and LSU come to mind...

2. It doesn't matter how many degrees you have if can't produce when you need to produce. Among my wife's family, there are 6 guys who have, or are currently making, their living totally in the music biz.

They're not stars, but sidemen. It's still a living, though....

[lostinidlewonder]

I know a lot of musicians who make a living from music who do not have any degree at all and never paid big sums of money for this education. An expensive education can be a stepping stone. It is stupid to think there is only one way to be a sucessful musician. It is like saying, the only way to be a sucessful in your business is to have a business degree. Very untrue, how many self made millionares are there without any degree? Countless examples.

[gerry]

Of course there are lots of perfectly respectable music-related jobs that don't require all the steps mentioned at the outset of this thread--that goes without saying; however, I think what Thalberg meant was how nearly impossible it is to become a successful concert musician--all things considered. I could be wrong but what hasn't been discussed in all this is the concept of patronage. I've known of young promising Julliard students who have been taken under the wing of philanthropic angels who have given them token jobs and covered their costs. Most good conservatories and music schools have people like this in the wings who are asked to step in and help if needed. So, I guess you either come from a good upper or upper mid-class background or you need a patron. It's a bit different than setting out to excel in other disciplines, you don't get there by studying hard and working at Burger King in the evenings.

[nyonyo]

https://www.alllooksame.com/

Pertaining to my earlier postings  , the link above is very entertaining. Have fun....

Click the Enter the Examroom box to start the game....

It is imperative for Gerry to take this test....!!!

[sevencircles]

Who say that you should take lessons.

I never had a pianolesson in my life

Brendel, Godowsky, Art Tatum had very few lessons in their life and Keith Emerson zero

I am sure there are more, can name countless electric guitarists that are selftaught but not many pianists

[jolly]

Juliard, whatever....the bottom line in the music biz is whether you can do the job.

Classical music is fine, but you play what pays the bills. My son made 10 hours standard scale laying down tracks this week in a studio. He has a gig lined up for Saturday and Sunday.

Any of you conservatory grads working that much?

[joyfulmusic]

I make a six figure income.  i find this thread fascinating.  I believe that one could substitute the career of musician and say these same things about millions and millions of people.  Learning how to handle finances is a very very different skill from creating beautiful music.  I grow weary of the old cliche that musicians can't make money and therefore you have to find another day job.  I fully intend to offer some workshops someday soon, because there are absolutely ways to earn a good living as a musician.  Out of context examples don't help.  Everyone needs to educate themselves about good business practices and visioning.  If one simply states out of the gate, "you can't make good money as a musician", then they will absolutely be right.  I personally feel that conservatory's still are a hundred years behind the times in preparing their graduates to be professional.  There is this cloister affect when the student is in school and getting A's and accolades for a job well done that means squat out there in the real world.

[thalberg]

I make a six figure income.  i find this thread fascinating.  I believe that one could substitute the career of musician and say these same things about millions and millions of people.  Learning how to handle finances is a very very different skill from creating beautiful music.  I grow weary of the old cliche that musicians can't make money and therefore you have to find another day job.  I fully intend to offer some workshops someday soon, because there are absolutely ways to earn a good living as a musician.  Out of context examples don't help.  Everyone needs to educate themselves about good business practices and visioning.  If one simply states out of the gate, "you can't make good money as a musician", then they will absolutely be right.  I personally feel that conservatory's still are a hundred years behind the times in preparing their graduates to be professional.  There is this cloister affect when the student is in school and getting A's and accolades for a job well done that means squat out there in the real world.

WOW!!!  Please tell me how to make a six figure income.  I have a doctorate from a conservatory and am currently changing careers.  Could I make that much teaching piano lessons at a studio, or do you do other things too?  I'm all ears!! Also sent you a personal message.

[jlh]

WOW!!!  Please tell me how to make a six figure income.  I have a doctorate from a conservatory and am currently changing careers.  Could I make that much teaching piano lessons at a studio, or do you do other things too?  I'm all ears!! Also sent you a personal message.

I'm also interested in hearing what you have to say, as I'm in the process of finishing up my masters in piano and headed for a DMA term as well...

[joyfulmusic]

Hmmmmmmmmm.  How to answer this as succinctly as possible.  Private lessons is 75% of my income.  I have to turn students away.  I follow my passion with music.  I can be seen hearing the Boston Philharmonic and reading Ben Zander's great book, sitting in at open mike nights, playing for fundraiser banquests.   Start in an affluent neighborhood.  There are teachers in the same town I work in mostly that have 55 students.  I don't know what they charge, but I get $35/1/2 hour.  Some of my students go to an hour when they get good enough.  I go to the student's home to teach mostly.  I do not have a college degree.    I am a hell of a teacher, as evidenced by the results with my students.  I get referrals all the time.  I am always looking for more music, books, on top of the media.  This allows me to only play where and when I want to.  You get the picture.  I am following my heart, or is it ear, or is it fingers?  When I was only 20 I had a teacher from NEC who was a child prodigy.  He discouraged me from going to NEC.  Truthfully my love of music is my own and I put that out there everywhere I go.

[jlh]

Hmmmmmmmmm.  How to answer this as succinctly as possible.  Private lessons is 75% of my income.  I have to turn students away.  I follow my passion with music.  I can be seen hearing the Boston Philharmonic and reading Ben Zander's great book, sitting in at open mike nights, playing for fundraiser banquests.   Start in an affluent neighborhood.  There are teachers in the same town I work in mostly that have 55 students.  I don't know what they charge, but I get $35/1/2 hour.  Some of my students go to an hour when they get good enough.  I go to the student's home to teach mostly.  I do not have a college degree.    I am a hell of a teacher, as evidenced by the results with my students.  I get referrals all the time.  I am always looking for more music, books, on top of the media.  This allows me to only play where and when I want to.  You get the picture.  I am following my heart, or is it ear, or is it fingers?  When I was only 20 I had a teacher from NEC who was a child prodigy.  He discouraged me from going to NEC.  Truthfully my love of music is my own and I put that out there everywhere I go.

So how many students do you have currently?

[nyonyo]

WOW!!!  Please tell me how to make a six figure income.  I have a doctorate from a conservatory and am currently changing careers.  Could I make that much teaching piano lessons at a studio, or do you do other things too?  I'm all ears!! Also sent you a personal message.

Phil,

No doubt that you have the knowledge...However, in order to make good monies in teaching piano, you need to have other attributes and conditions to be successful.

These are some of those attributes and conditions that you need to have or at least try to create:

1. How does your studio look like? You need to decorate your studio in a way so that it looks professional and inviting.
2. How do you dress? You have to dress so that people are comfortable to take lesson from you. I had a piano teacher in CA, he graduated from DePaul. He smells and dirty. That is why many people do not want to lesson from him.
3. How is your personality? Are you a convincing person? If you really want to charge big bucks, you have to be very convincing.
4. Where your studio is located? Affluent people will be afraid of going to your studio if your studio is located in a scary area.
5. How convincing are you? You have to be very convincing so that people have confidence in spending monies on you. If you are too soft, they do not think that you are good. You have to be more commending.
6. Be generous. At the beginning, you need to be generous with time. You have to spend time with some of the most promising students so that they can play much better than students who take the same length of lesson. This will function as your advertisment to their friends and family.
7. As I had mentioned at the beginning of this discussion, get Asian students! They are easy to teach and their parents will force them to practice. If they do not progress as you wish, you need to talk to the parents. They will force the kids even harder. At the beginning, you need to avoid students who may not be able to practice hard, for example students from broken family. Because there are days that they will stay at their dad. Most likely, dad will not have a piano where they can practice. In addition, dad will take them places.
8. Enter your good students to local piano competition.
9. Do monthly student recital, this will force students to practice harder. No parents like to be embarrassed by their children bad performance month after month. They will make sure the kids practice. If the kids are hopeless, do not force them to participate in the recital. They will quit, and you will lose income. Note: Asian kids and parents like to be challanged. Therefore, you can pushed them more than others.
10. Involve parents in the lesson, so they can help the kids. I like to make the parents learn together so that they can help the children.

Hope these points help your teaching business.

[joyfulmusic]

I have 40 students.  I have discovered that is my cap.  I need time to pursue my own music.  Also over time I've dropped the undesirable customers - you know - parents who are difficult to deal with mostly.  I've had two cases of Asbergers in students where the parents were totally in denial and I could not work with these students.  One mom actually sat on the floor with her feet under the piano bench and answered questions I put to her daughter for her.  I agree with the post about the teacher's studio appeal and personal appeal.  In the end, you are a salesperson for yourself and for  all that learning to play the piano entails.  The more I teach the better I get.

[gfiore]

 Not to be off topic joyful but the form of high functioning autism you refer to is Asperger's Syndrome not Asberger's.

[joyfulmusic]

just a typo.  I stand corrected.

[jlh]

just a typo.  I stand corrected.

lol well at least what you typed was lacking an additional S and U... 

[thalberg]

Yes,  Assburger......I like that.  "Ma'm, I'm sorry but your child is behaving like an assburger today."

Yes, Nyonyo and Joyfulmusic, I like all your advice very much.  I have not started a studio yet, but I do have an opportunity to rent a nice space at a mall complex in an upper class neighborhood.  My mom knows the owner of the building and I could get it for insanely cheap.  I have a grand piano to use, and I could decorate to make things look nice.  In terms of my personality and appearance, all I can say is that when I've taught in the past the parents have been happy and I've gotten referrals.

This is good advice, guys,thanks.

[nyonyo]

if I were, I would not rent a space. Start small first. Renting a place will cost too much fixed cost. You have to hire other teachers to cover the fixed cost. It is a lot of headache dealing with employees.

[thalberg]

350 dollars a month would be the cost.  Is that too much?  I'm getting the low price because my family is friends with the owner.  I don't have a house....I have nowhere else to teach.  I do have a grand piano, though.

[matterintospirit]

well, please dont get me wrong, i am not against those who got doctorates.
being ignorant about the system, i wanted to know whats the practical merit of getting them(doctorates, etc).
for example, are there courses which is excluded from non-doctorates at schools??

I couldn't possibly see anything "impractical" about pursuing your education to the fullest no matter what the subject is.

[thalberg]

I couldn't possibly see anything "impractical" about pursuing your education to the fullest no matter what the subject is.

Cost of schooling vs. what your degree will enable you to make.  That is what is impractical.