Another "help me with my next year's program!" post

[rachmaninova]

Hello!!!

I'm having a hard time on deciding my next year's program. I have to prepare a Bach P&F, a study, a Liszt study, a Beethoven sonata, a romantic piece and a portuguese piece.

Well, I already have:

Bach - P&F in D minor, book II
Scriabin - etude op. 42 no. 5
Fernando Lopes-Graca - Sonata no. 1


Liszt: 2nd Ballade + Paganini-Liszt "La Chasse" 
OR   
Scriabin's Fantasy Op. 28 + Liszt's "La Leggierezza"   -----> Which pair do you think it would work better?


The real problem is the Beethoven Sonata. My teacher wants me avoid the most overplayed ones. This last year I started Op. 10-3, but a tendinitis forced me to stop with the piano playing. I wanted to restart this sonata, but my teacher thinks I´m going to get tired of it. The other one I love is Op. 109, but it's been overplayed in the last years in my school, so my teacher doesn't want me to play it either. He suggested Op. 10-2, Op. 54, Op. 78 and Op. 90. I already dropped the last one: I have small hands and I don't think I have enough maturity to make the 2nd movement work. I made a search in this forum and I realized almost everyone hates Op. 54. 

What do you suggest?

[ramseytheii]

Hello!!!

I'm having a hard time on deciding my next year's program. I have to prepare a Bach P&F, a study, a Liszt study, a Beethoven sonata, a romantic piece and a portuguese piece.

Well, I already have:

Bach - P&F in D minor, book II
Scriabin - etude op. 42 no. 5
Fernando Lopes-Graca - Sonata no. 1


Liszt: 2nd Ballade + Paganini-Liszt "La Chasse" 
OR   
Scriabin's Fantasy Op. 28 + Liszt's "La Leggierezza"   -----> Which pair do you think it would work better?

If you're young and you have the option of learning either two pieces by one composer, or two by two different composers, choose the second option!

Walter Ramsey

[dnephi]

Op. 78 is a fine sonata.  Beethoven had a high opinion of it, although it would be hard to read, given its key of F# Major.  Why don't you give it a listen?

Op. 54 is a great piece.  Unfortunately, it stands between the Waldstein and the Appassionata, the twin pillars of the first decade of the 19th century.  That would be an equally fine choice as the Op. 78.

La Leggierezza (sp?) is a wonderful piece.  The second ballade is an incredible work of musicality in a true musician's hands.  I think you'd be better off with the Scriabin Fantasy, which is less often heard and doesn't need to be a profound interpretation to be interpreted.

[amelialw]

How about Op.2 No.2 or Op.2 No.3?

[rachmaninova]

Yes, it's possible to play more than one work from a composer as long as I play 2 studies (one has to be a liszt etude) and a romantic piece.
It does require some stamina to play both Fantasy and study by Scriabin.
I could play "La Chasse" with the Scriabin piece, instead of "La Leggierezza" but I don't know which one of these would relieve me more from the probable tensions I will develop by playing Scriabin (both pieces require great hand extension).

I can study both Scriabin's Fantasy and Liszt's 2nd Ballade, but I have to present only one of them to my exam.

[rachmaninova]

How about Op.2 No.2 or Op.2 No.3?

I just love Op2. No.3, but then again, my teacher says it's too hard! 

Op. 78 is a fine sonata.  Beethoven had a high opinion of it, although it would be hard to read, given its key of F# Major.  Why don't you give it a listen?

Op. 54 is a great piece.  Unfortunately, it stands between the Waldstein and the Appassionata, the twin pillars of the first decade of the 19th century.  That would be an equally fine choice as the Op. 78.

I already heard both sonatas and this is my dilemma: I prefer the first movement from Op. 54 and I prefer the 2nd movement from Op. 78, how about that? 
Fortunately, I don't have any problem on reading in any key.
I read somewhere that Op.78 was one of Beethoven's favourite sonatas, is that correct?

I prefer the 2nd Ballade precisely for the interpretation work it requires, but I also love Scriabin (I'm a little bit crazy for this composer!).

[burstroman]

My personal preferences would be the Op.54, which should be played much more.  Go for the Scriabin Fantasy and "La Leggiarezza", on of the best Liszt etudes.

[amelialw]

"I just love Op2. No.3, but then again, my teacher says it's too hard!"
aww that's sad. Few learn this sonata as most people go for waldstein etc but beethoven's sonatas that were dedicated to Haydn are very light hearted and expressive. Maybe you could prove your teacher wrong? 

[rachmaninova]

Maybe you could prove your teacher wrong? 

Well, I could try, but once Sequeira Costa told a student that this sonata is the hardest from Beethoven's (how about Hammerklavier?? ). How can I compete with that? 
I like the smaller ones (op. 78 and op. 54), but I'm not as passionate about them as I am with op.2-3, op. 101 and op. 109.
I will listen some more to all the recordings I have, and probably read a little bit.

Thank you for your replies!

[amelialw]

Op.2 No 3 is not the hardest one.

[amelialw]

and besides always learn something that you really like otherwise it won't wear well. I initially started Op.2 No.3, my teacher said it was hard enough, not that hard though but after a month I realised that I wasn't very passionate about it so I switched to Op.2 No.2

[rachmaninova]

Well, here's an update to this story:

My teacher has decided me to play Scriabin's Fantasy and Paganini Liszt's "La Chasse". The real surprise is that now (after teliing me to run away from overplayed sonatas) he insists that I play the "Appassionata"!!! 
I'm a little bit scared about the idea. Since I'm still recovering from muscular problems, is it possible to play such program without trouble? I don't have only this to study I have all the big works for clarinet, violin and piano to study (such as "Contrasts" and "Suite from L'Histoire du Soldat"), and lots of works from colleagues to present and also I work as an accompanist....

Well, thank you once again for your tips!

[rachmaninova]

Well, here's an update to this story:

My teacher has decided me to play Scriabin's Fantasy and Paganini Liszt's "La Chasse". The real surprise is that now (after teliing me to run away from overplayed sonatas) he insists that I play the "Appassionata"!!! 
I'm a little bit scared about the idea. Since I'm still recovering from muscular problems, is it possible to play such program without trouble? I don't have only this to study I have all the big works for clarinet, violin and piano to study (such as "Contrasts" and "Suite from L'Histoire du Soldat"), others for oboe, bassoon and piano (Poulenc, Francaix,...) , and lots of works from colleagues composers to present and also I work as an accompanist....

Well, thank you once again for your tips!

[amelialw]

haha that's funny
The real surprise is that now (after teliing me to run away from overplayed sonatas) he insists that I play the "Appassionata"  !!! 
your teacher can actually tell you that Op.2 No.3 is too hard for you and then give u Appassionata lol

[mcgillcomposer]

your teacher can actually tell you that Op.2 No.3 is too hard for you and then give u Appassionata lol

Level of difficulty is entirely subjective, especially between two works that are on the same level technically (like Op. 2 No. 3 and the Appassionata).

[rachmaninova]

your teacher can actually tell you that Op.2 No.3 is too hard for you and then give u Appassionata lol

I guess he's insane... 
But I too find Op. 2 No. 3 a little bit harder than the Appassionata. A sonata from the classical period is difficult because you have to be cristal clear to play it. The sonata must be perfect, or else is a great fiasco, even if you're almost close to perfection. A more romantic sonata is hard (it has other difficulties), of course, but you can (I don't remember the english word to express what I'm trying to tell) camuflate a little bit your technical faults. But the Appassionata is very very hard indeed and has the problem of being overplayed.
I don't know, I'm still thinking of Op. 54 (my teacher thinks this is a good idea too).

[rachmaninova]

Level of difficulty is entirely subjective, especially between two works that are on the same level technically (like Op. 2 No. 3 and the Appassionata).

I agree with you, and believe that the level of difficulty also depends on the abilities (technique, maturity, musicality,...) of each pianist. One piece may be hard for some and may be a little easier for others.

[mcgillcomposer]

I don't know, I'm still thinking of Op. 54 (my teacher thinks this is a good idea too).

Well, it's certainly A LOT shorter than the Appassionata and Op. 2 No. 3 and would probably take you less time to learn...meaning more time for other pieces.

[amelialw]

But I too find Op. 2 No. 3 a little bit harder than the Appassionata. A sonata from the classical period is difficult because you have to be cristal clear to play it. The sonata must be perfect, or else is a great fiasco, even if you're almost close to perfection.

hmm...that's true. Classical Sonatas and Romantic Sonatas are hard in different ways. But the Appassionata is considered as a classical sonata for ARCT dip...

[mcgillcomposer]

But I too find Op. 2 No. 3 a little bit harder than the Appassionata. A sonata from the classical period is difficult because you have to be cristal clear to play it. The sonata must be perfect, or else is a great fiasco, even if you're almost close to perfection.

hmm...that's true. Classical Sonatas and Romantic Sonatas are hard in different ways. But the Appassionata is considered as a classical sonata for ARCT dip...

The ARCT repertoire list is so backwards...it makes absolutely no sense. And I do not say this because of which pieces are classified where; I am referring to the assigned grade level of certain pieces.

[amelialw]

well taking the ARCT Dip exam is the same as taking the ABRSM Dip, LRSM and FRSM. there's a much wider variety of pieces and RCM is one of the world's leading examination boards. The system is much better than ABRSM.

[mcgillcomposer]

well taking the ARCT Dip exam is the same as taking the ABRSM Dip, LRSM and FRSM. there's a much wider variety of pieces and RCM is one of the world's leading examination boards. The system is much better than ABRSM.

What is the obsession with being graded and getting RCM diplomas anyway? I did my ARCT perf. diploma a few yrs. back and no one is interested in the least. It seems to me that they are quite meaningless.

[amelialw]

that's not true. If you want to find a job as a accompanist, they will ask for an ARCT Performer's Cert. If you want a job as a well-qualified piano teacher/pianist someone will want you more likely if you have you ARCT. Maybe it depends on the teacher that you had too. My teacher is well-reconised already, so it makes everything easier for me

[mcgillcomposer]

that's not true. If you want to find a job as a accompanist, they will ask for an ARCT Performer's Cert. If you want a job as a well-qualified piano teacher/pianist someone will want you more likely if you have you ARCT. Maybe it depends on the teacher that you had too. My teacher is well-reconised already, so it makes everything easier for me

Ya, I suppose my ARCT certificate is worth a lot less next to my bachelor's degree. In any case, in my experience as a pianist, people only care about how well you can play, not what piece of paper you have.

[rachmaninova]

i don't even know those diplomas. In Portugal we don't follow those procedures... We can choose anything as long as we make the mandatory elements. Of course, if I want to work abroad, or mainly in the UK, i'll have to take one of those diplomas. But I guess that with my age that isn't possible... I studied economics before I restarted to study piano because of my parents.

[rachmaninova]

In any case, in my experience as a pianist, people only care about how well you can play, not what piece of paper you have.

Yes, that's it! In my school, there's a teacher with a PhD... She's a horrible teacher and she seems to play worse than her students!

[amelialw]

anyway, i'm finishing off my ARCT Performer's by next year and then in sept i'm going to go to music school to get my B.A but i'm still gonna continue to take lessons from my private piano teacher.

[rachmaninova]

If it isn't too much trouble, could you tell me how many kinds of diplomas exist, what they consist and which is their purpose? Or indicate me a web page that explains it all? I have some trouble in understanding some of the threads because my reality is different... 

[amelialw]

Royal Consevatory of Canada: 3 diplomas
- ARCT Performers
Exam Details: 1 recital consisting of 1 Bach, 1 Classical Sonata, 1 Romantic Piece, 2 20th C Pieces and 1 Concert Etude. max time 1 hour

- ARCT Teachers
Exam Details: 1 recital consisting of 2 ARCT pieces, 1 grade 10 piece and 2 grade 9 pieces. 1 Viva Voce Exam and 1 Written Exam
- ARCT Theory and Composition: For becoming a composer and theory teacher

Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music: 3 diplomas
Music Performance- 3 levels ( ABRSM Dip, LRSM and FRSM)
Music Direction- Same
Teaching- Same
you can get the rest of the details for this at www.https://www.abrsm.org/?page=exams/diplomas/diplomas2005.html

BC Consevatory of music
www.bccmusic.ca

these are the ones that I know

[rachmaninova]

Thank you very much!

I'm studying for something between LRSM and FRSM: a final exam like FRSM, but I will only be licenciated. My english isn't very good, I hope you'll understand what I'm writing!

[amelialw]

you're welcome.