Need suggestions for competition...

[Shagdac]

Here is the scenerio....

One has alittle over a year to prepare for an upcoming piano competition. For the entry audition, a 15 minute cd/tape recording must be submitted demonstrating contrasting styles and technique......from which only a certain number of preliminary applicants will be chosen.

What piece(s) would you suggest one use? It cannot go over 15 minutes. It does not necessary have to be show-stopping, virtuoso pieces, but it does have to be classical in nature.  

Also, an additional question I have is, from experience, what pieces are generally the most well received when played in competitions? Are there any that are almost guaranteed to please? Any advise or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Shag

[bernhard]

What is the degree of difficulty of the pieces? I will assume late intermediate/early advanced, but not virtuoso.

Think of the poor judges, who have to listen to the same old selections over and over again (Can they bear another Moonlight? Another Fur Elise? Another Rachmaninoff C# minor prelude?). On the other hand you may not want to risk completely obscure composers. So here are a few choices. Select one piece for each of the four periods (this will guarantee a diversity of styles/techniques) and  make sure that the four pieces add up to 15 minutes.

1.      Baroque:

Scarlatti sonatas (either a fast, dazzling one or a slow, lyrical one - see here for some specific suggestions:
https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=repo;action=display;num=1077145772).

The  J.S. Bach mandatory Prelude & Fugue will probably bore judges to tears.

If you want to be truly off the beaten track try one of Thomas Arne’s sonatas, or Couperin (I like “Les Barricades Mysterieux”).

2.      Classical:

The problem here is that most classical composers were into composing sonatas, so time constraints will not allow those. You can try these though:

Beethoven (one of the Bagatelles – I  particularly like Op. 33 no. 1, Op. 33 no. 5.   or Six Ecossaises WoO 83 – in spite of the name they are played as one single piece).

Johann Worzischek – A mostly unknown composer who is right at the boundary between classical and romantic music.  I suggest you investigate his Impromptus (Op. 7) which gave Schubert the idea for his own impromptus. (They are published by Henle).

3.      Romantic:

Schumann (one of the Album for the young Op. 68 – they vary in difficulty so you have quite a lot of choice – the more advanced ones are rarely played and are beautiful pieces. The Album leaves Op. 99 and Op. 124 are another example of rarely played and yet very beautiful pieces, and unlike other Schumann pieces they are not part of a cycle, so each piece in these collections will stand on their own).

Alkan: Esquisses (48 miniatures varying in difficulty and covering many styles – almost never played – Alkan has just recently started to get the attention he rightfully deserves.)

Grieg (Lyric pieces).

Everyone is sick to death of Chopin, Liszt and Rachmaninoff.

4.      Modern:

Prokofiev: His “juvenilia” are almost unknown and yet very effective. (see specific suggestions here:
https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1077907916 )

Shostakovitch: His preludes op. 34 are underplayed, very varied in style and technique and are all short. (See here for my favourites:  
https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=repo;action=display;num=1073648526)

These are just a few suggestions out of an endless list.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Crucifixus]

The  J.S. Bach mandatory Prelude & Fugue will probably bore judges to tears... Everyone is sick to death of Chopin, Liszt and Rachmaninoff.

Well, I've heard many comments, but this one is a winner! Mercy!

[Shagdac]

Thank you once again Bernhard for your wisdom and time. I agree also that they are probably tired of Liszt, Rachmaninoff and Chopin....although I had considered La Campinella or Heroic Polonaise for at least one of the songs, but then figured they had probably heard these so many times it would not be a good idea. I like your suggestions and also enjoy Beethoven Bagatelles. I have also entertained the thought of doing something by Gottschalk....I really enjoy L'Union, (everyone is a little more patriotic now, right?), or even the Banjo. I know this isn't that difficult but I love this type of music. I have never played Alkan, guess I've somewhat steered away from his music, not being as familiar with it. At any rate, I'm printing out your list, and will take it to the music store tomorrow to try and decide on some of these to try. Thanks again, appreciate your help.

Shag

[rachlisztchopin]

what piano competition are you competing in shagdac? i am competiting in a competition this spring too but iv already chose my pieces

[thomas_williams]

...I had considered La Campinella or Heroic Polonaise for at least one of the songs,

Were you going to accompany a singer in vocal arrangements of these pieces?  

[johnreef]

I think you should fill the 15-minute tape with all Tori Amos music. It is much better than classical.

[rachlisztchopin]

I think you should fill the 15-minute tape with all Tori Amos music. It is much better than classical.

Whatever dude. You obviously dont have much taste in music to say something like that. By the way, I have listened to Tori Amos's music and besides her singing her music is quite classical. You don't know anything.

[Shagdac]

rachlisztchopin....I'm trying for the Van Cliburn "amateur" competition. Maybe I'm dreaming but it has always been a goal of mine. And I am too old now for the Professional competition. Man, wish I was alot younger. What competition are you going to be in Rach?
What are your pieces that you've chosen? There are so many wonderful pieces, it's hard to choose when you are limited. Bernhard offered so many wonderful examples as well. They emphasize to play "what you love to play", not just show-stopping virtuosso pieces. Which makes sense as one usually plays what they love to play better anyway. But I really did want 1 piece that would be considered extremely difficult, hence my choice of La Campanella, Heroic Polonaise (at least to ME, they are very difficult), but I am not a professional. One piece I really do love is "Le Banjo"....I really enjoy Gottschalk's music and often wonder why it isn't more popular. I have considered his "Dying Poet" as well as "L' Union" as well. I enjoy Rach's Prelude in G minor, but as Bernhard said, they (the jury) are probably tired of hearing Rach, Chopin, etc. And Prelude in G minor is pretty popular, so I am trying to think of pieces that won't be duplicated by others in the competition. When is your competition? Have you done it before? Good luck!

Shag

[Shagdac]

Sorry John Reef....I am not familiar w/ Tori Amos music. I don't believe I've ever heard any of these pieces. Am I missing something

[rachlisztchopin]

Hey Shagdac. I was going to compete in a regional competition uv probably not heard of but i bailed out of it so it doesnt matter anyways. The reason i bailed out was because im 15 and iv only been playing piano for a year and the pieces i chose were hard and i only had a month to work them up from scratch. I chose brahms rhapsody in g minor and bartoks allegro barbaro...amazing pieces. if u havent heard them u need to. and if you like popular music u are missing something by not listening to tori amos. shes one of the few actually good popular music musicians. here pieces are very classical and she writes the music her self. a lot of them are on harpsichord too which is very interesting

[Shagdac]

RachlisztChopin....I commend you on your ambition after playing for only 1 year. You must be doing very well. What are some of the other pieces you have played. I take it by your name you like Rach...Liszt...and Chopin?
I love La Campanella, Prelude in G minor and the Revolutionary. There are too many great pieces to name....I just wish I could play them all! I will try and listen to some Tori Amos soon. Can you recommend some good CD's?

[rachlisztchopin]

i started out piano playing the popular pieces like rondo alla turca, fur elise, and mozart sonata in C major...later i begin discovering other composers...the one composer i absoluteley fell in love with was chopin after about 2 months of playing piano (i hadnt heard of rach or liszt yet as well as many other composers) my first chopin piece was the raindrop prelude (my teacher let me play anything i wanted) after a half year playing piano i discovered teh revolutionary etude and the 3rd movement of moonlight sonata and chose those as my next pieces...i never learned them completely and ofcourse i didnt play them with precision because i didnt have much of a technique (my teacher wasnt the best teacher...just a normal piano teacher) I then discovered the piano professor at the U. of Arkansas. he is somewhat famous...i guess world renowned is more the name...u probably havent heard of him but he plays similar to martha argerich in my opinion...in fact i love the fact that shes a good friend of his and they have performed duos around the world together. ofcourse he critisized my technique and we went with a gradually-climb-up-the-mountain-and-fill-holes-in-technique method where i started on mozarts fantasia and d minor and a bach invention and worked my way up to the competition pieces i mentioned..i recently decided to try a different method..tomorrow i have a piano lesson with him and instead of playing very difficult pieces and filling the holes in my technique we are going to work on easier pieces (starting with mozart, haydn, schumann, prokofiev, etc their easier pieces) and then work my way up to czerny etudes ( i actually find czernys etudes fun to listen to) and yea  i just said a lot....i dont remember the name of the tori amos cd that has the song i really like...ill have to ask my mom...yes rachmaninov, liszt and chopin are my favs but im discovering tons of new composers...i tend to also love french composers, espeically ravel and debussy
by the way i think chopin etudes are perfect for competitions because they represent technique like no other piece (exageratting)

[Shagdac]

TachLisztChopin....I can't believe you are still awake...it's 3:00 in the morning here!!! Anyway, I can't get over the difficulty of the pieces you are playing after only a year. You must really enjoy it and practice a great deal. I don't think I was playing pieces such as what you are playing after only a year. I don't think I had a very good teacher either. I would give anything to go study under "Bernhard" if only for a month! Haha! I wish I was younger so I could do more with it though.
Glad you have such a great teacher now, I'm sure you will learn so much, and do beautifully. I absolutely love Gottschalk. Are you familiar with him? You definately need to listen to The Banjo and L' Union. He's probably best know for The Dying Poet though. But I think the Banjo piece and Union are fabulous. I have a piano "coach" that's what I call her anyway that I go to twice a week in preparation for this competition. It's something I've always aspired to do, and even though sometimes I don't feel like I have a chance I'm going to give it my best shot! Have a great lesson tomorrow.

Shag

[rachlisztchopin]

Hey Shag. I always stay up late! It's 2 in the morning here. If I am bored and can't go to sleep I just go practice piano! lol It sounds like your entering a very tough competition. I want to enter the chopin national and international competition someday. Probably in my early twenties when I am ready.  I am not too familiar with Gottschalk.  I am just now discovering him and I like him. I am just now subscribing to classicalarchives.net so i can hear all these interesting new composer's music. I had a great lesson today. I also got composition/theory lessons setup with another college professor! I hope to be a great composer someday.  Do you know much bartok? He is one of my favorite more modern composers. And have you heard liszt's piano concerto no.2? It's my fav piano concerto along with Rach3!

[Shagdac]

Yes, I love Liszt's Concerto no.2 along with Rach 3. No,
I don't know much Bartok, can you suggest some? I think you'll really like Gottschalk, his music has "pep", I just find that even with one foot on the pedal when I play his songs my other foots tapping. Especially with the Banjo. I am working on L'Union at the moment. It may take me awhile, but it'll be worth it. I must listen to the recording about 50 times a day, and all night at work when possible. I don't know if I am being foolish trying to enter this competition or not, but I really want to try. It's funny, they call it "Amateur" competition, for anyone from a scientist to a housewife. But most of the past winners sound anything by "Amateur" to me. They classify an Amateur as being someone who does not currently make a living playing professionally or making over a certain percentage of income by teaching. But some of these "Amateurs" have Masters in Piano from Julliard, or have played for may years in the past with Orchestra's and Symphonies, or studied with famous teachers/composers in Russia, some have even attended well know Music Conservatory in Paris. A entry could be someone who had been professional most of their life, retired a year ago and now they would be considered Amateur.....simply because they no longer play for living, and are past a certain age.(You have to be 35 or older). I don't consider someone like that an Amateur......certainly not up against a waitress, or housewife, or someone who had not taken college music. It's supposed to be for individuals who do not make a living at the piano, yet share a passion for playing.  I don't know we'll see. It sure will be fun trying
though....and I love a challenge.  Glad your lesson went well. I will try and listen to some Bartok, thanks!

Shag

[rachlisztchopin]

Hey. Bartok is mostly famous for writing folk music. I have a poster that ranks composers in four ranks on how culturally important they are and Bartok is first rank. He writes a lot of atonal music but it is beautiful atonal music. I suggest Allegro Barbaro and Romanian Dance for starters. Whats interesting is I am just now getting interested in Albeniz. Do you know much of his music? By the way, what is your piano repertoire? Lol At the moment I am learning all 24 Bach Inventions and Kinderscene by Schumann as well as Czerny's school of virtuosity and velocity. I plan on either going to Juilliard if i can get in or going to an Ivy league school to major in music. I honestly wish I could get a triple doctorate in Physics, Piano, and Composition. I am being stunned by liszt's genius right now. How random...

[faulty_damper]

First, I have to comment on this quote by rachliszt:
"(my teacher wasnt the best teacher...just a normal piano teacher) "

Haha!  So true, so true.

Anyway, to the topic,
One of my pet peeves in music is the same cliche of songs being played over and over BUT it isn't played very expressively.  Example: Lang Lang and his Liszt playing is virtuosic but I hate his playing because it's not very expressive - it bores me.  But that technical difficulty may impress the ignorant, but not to a judge with experience.

So if you can't play something popular and expressively, then it won't separate you from the rest.

So why not find something that requires a high degree of expression and not just technical difficulty?  

[rachlisztchopin]

So why not find something that requires a high degree of expression and not just technical difficulty?  

ick musical expression is another technical problem i have right now....yep u heard me right i consider musical expression a technique problem....its also a psychological problem too though dont get me wrong.  Hey have you ever tried this? My music teacher made me do this to exhibit mind over matter and its HARD
I did this on the brahms rhapsody but a good piece to do this on would be a bach fugue....take a bach fugue and play one voice at fortissimo while playing all other voices at pianissimo and then switch around and play a different voice at fortissimo while all others at pianissimo....its very difficult to do but thats part of musical expression...touch

[faulty_damper]

Playing ff while other voices pp... Never tried this, at least not to such a contrasting degree.  In a Bach fugue, the dominant voice should be played slightly louder, anyway, so it wouldn't be that hard to switch the voices..>?

[bernhard]

 In a Bach fugue, the dominant voice should be played slightly louder, anyway, so it wouldn't be that hard to switch the voices..>?

Consider this very interesting point of view:

”What makes playing Bach on the keyboard even more of a problem is that almost none of his keyboard music for two hands without pedal was intended for public presentation. Most of the great works were educational […] Playing Bach for oneself or for a friend or pupil looking at the score (the way the Art of Fugue or the Well Tempered Keyboard or the Goldberg Variations would have been played before 1770) raised few problems; nothing had to be brought out, the harpsichordist (or a pianist on a Silbermann pianoforte, the instrument manufactured by a friend of Bach) experienced the different voices through the movement of the hands, the listener saw the score and followed all the contrapuntual complexity disentangling the sound visually while listening. Bach’s art did not depend on hearing the different voices and separating them in the mind, but on appreciating the way what was separate on paper blended into a wonderful whole.
(Charles Rosen - Piano Notes – Penguin)

Rosen goes on to say that the situation changes dramatically once one decides to use Bach’s keyboard pieces on performance, since the audience is not following a score, so the performer must of necessity bring out the different voices, something that was never intended by Bach in the first place. So the problem facing a Bach performer is how to articulate the music in such a way that both the separate lines and the merging into a whole become clear to the audience. Rosen believes this problem to be unsolvable. But I believe that there is actually a pianist who came the closest to solve it, and it is a very underrated pianist: the late Rosalyn Tureck.

Best wishes
Bernhard.

[Shagdac]

Wow Bernhard, I've never read Bach's music described that way, nor did I know it was written w/ "educational" concepts in mind, not performance. Very interesting. Do you know any recordings of Rosalyn Tureck. I would love to hear them, as I DO enjoy Bach. Alot of my friends do not, but I always have. I still haven't picked out my entire repertoire. I am not going necessarily for the "most difficult" I agree completely with Faulty Damper that I think it's more important to play what one plays well, with expression and feeling rather than just a virtuosso piece for the sake of "showing off" (not that I can do that much either haha), but I am trying to find pieces that I truly love. I am pretty set of doing Le Banjo and L'Union by Gottschalk. Yes, they are 2 of my favorites. I am currently working on last part of Banjo, and will continue w/ L' Union. I know they are both by the same composer, but I like them both so much. I am more familiar with the Banjo, but heard L'Union about a month or so ago, and simply cannot stop listening to it. Has anyone else heard this song? What do you think of it as a competition piece? Bernhard, are you familiar with this piece? Can you offer any advise or comments on it which would help. I've already used your practicing by doing the sequencing steps 1 note, then 2 notes, then 3 notes, etc more than I can say. What a help it has been! Also, on the Banjo....do you know the correct or most common timing. I have a recording by Cecile Licad and it is played so rapidly, I truly feel it takes something away. Many of the other recordings are somewhat slower. Does anyone know the correct metrinome setting(s) for this song (Le Banjo).  Also, this has nothing to do with this topic....just something I wanted to share.....this past Friday evening I went and saw Emanuel Ax, with the Fort Worth Symphony Orchestra and it was wonderous. He played Century Rolls, I had never heard it. But I purchased a CD of his with all Haydn Piano Sonatas. It is beautiful.  I haven't listened to all of them yet, but may decide to do one of these. I have not played much Haydn in the past, but his Sonata no. 31,34,29,49 and 35 are beautiful. Also there was a very young composer there Kevin Pulls who had composed a piece called "Falling Dreams"....it was a sort of memorial to the man and woman who lept off the world trade center Sept 11th. holding hands. That vision (which of course was shown on the news umpteen times) was very disturbing to this man, and he felt compelled to compose music describing this. The song was absolutely haunting. He received a standing ovation, I was in tears. It was such a beautifully, moving peice. If you have a chance to hear this you really should. .....Also, when people talk about the
"Big C Sonata" which one are they referring to? Thanks for all the imput guys....I really appreciate it!

Shag

[bernhard]

Wow Bernhard, I've never read Bach's music described that way, nor did I know it was written w/ "educational" concepts in mind, not performance. Very interesting.

Most baroque music for keyboards was for educational purposes for the simple reason that the sound did not carry very far. One of the reasons the piano superseded the harpsichord was simply because of its far greater volume. A harpsichord requires the most intimate environment and a very small audience to be appreciated. A clavichord is ridiculous! You back away two steps and you cannot hear it (it was probably Bach’s favourite instrument because it allowed dynamics pretty much like a piano, and it was much easier to tune than a harpsichord). I had the opportunity to play on one, and I could hardly hear myself! Scarlatti 555 sonatas, in spite of the name were actually written as technical exercises for his pupil the Queen of Spain. And most keyboard works by Couperin and Rameau likewise were meant for musical instruction rather than public performance. Opera, choral and orchestral music were the true “public” pieces.

Do you know any recordings of Rosalyn Tureck.

Most of them are published (?) by VAI which also has a number of videos of her (I strongly recommend the Goldberg variations video). A lot of her Records were made in the 50s and 60s but after her passing away a few months ago they have been reissued. DG has reissued her 50s recording of the complete preludes and fugues of the WTC (unmissable), and a very recent Goldberg (it comes with a program that allows you to follow the score in your computer screen as you listen to the music amongst other features). And then there are the CDs in Phillips “Great pianists fo the 20th century” series, one of which is dedicated to the 6 Partitas. This is the most amazing interpretation of the partitas I have ever heard.

Tureck is completely underrated, and yet she is the one who actually influenced Gould to play Bach the way he did (he says so himself) Gould however had a more interesting personality from the point o the media (all that craziness and ludicrous opinions), while Tureck was pretty much a no nonsense superlative musician, so she never quite got hold of the public imagination, remaining a “musician’s musician”.

She was also a scholar of the highest caliber and her books on the interpretation of Bach are wonderful (instead of analysing the difficult stuff, she concentrates on the Anna Magdalena Bach’s notebooks, the Little preludes and the 2 /3 voice inventions).

I am currently working on last part of Banjo, and will continue w/ L' Union. I know they are both by the same composer, but I like them both so much. I am more familiar with the Banjo, but heard L'Union about a month or so ago, and simply cannot stop listening to it. Has anyone else heard this song? What do you think of it as a competition piece? Bernhard, are you familiar with this piece? Can you offer any advise or comments on it which would help. I've already used your practicing by doing the sequencing steps 1 note, then 2 notes, then 3 notes, etc more than I can say. What a help it has been! Also, on the Banjo....do you know the correct or most common timing. I have a recording by Cecile Licad and it is played so rapidly, I truly feel it takes something away. Many of the other recordings are somewhat slower. Does anyone know the correct metrinome setting(s) for this song (Le Banjo).

I am not familiar with these pieces. (I have heard them on CD, but I have not seen the score or played them). My favourite piece by Gotschalk is his “Great Triumphal fantasy on the Brazilian National Anthem” which I find hilarious. Actually he wrote parodies on most national anthems. Have you heard them?

Haydn Piano Sonatas. It is beautiful.  I haven't listened to all of them yet, but may decide to do one of these. I have not played much Haydn in the past, but his Sonata no. 31,34,29,49 and 35 are beautiful...Also, when people talk about the "Big C Sonata" which one are they referring to?

Yes, Haydn piano sonatas (there are over 60 of them) are sadly underplayed. And yet there are real gems there. I actually like his piano sonatas better than Mozart’s. There are several complete sets of them, the one I like the best is John McCabe’s for Decca. Usually pianists tend to play the late sonatas which are quite advanced and difficult, but there are many “easy” sonatas (around grade 5/6) that are excruciatingly beautiful (Just check out the trio of the Minuet in the sonata in A, Hob XVI/12) and sound much more difficult than they are and no one plays them. I guess they are considered children’s pieces (a bit like Clementi sonatinas), except that the children do not play them either!

The big sonata in C is probably Hob. XVI/50, one of the three last sonatas that Haydn composed (they are known as the “English sonatas” because Haydn composed them on his second visit to London in 1794), although the grandest of all Haydn’s piano works is arguably the Eb major sonata (Hob XVI/52) composed at the same time.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Shagdac]

Thanks Bernhard...I will definately look for a "Tureck" CD, the Barnes and Nobles nearby carries a vast selection of the Pinaist from the 20th Century CD's as well.  I have not heard Gottschalk's "Great Triumphal Fantasy", but now I am dying to. Problem is I can't locate it anywhere, nor can I find a CD with that piece.
That's interesting that it is a spin-off of the Brazilian National Anthem. The piece that I will learn after the Banjo....L'Union is a musical declaration of Gottschalk's patriotism, and contains elements of the yet-undelcared national anthem and was dedicated to the head of the Union Forces. Shortly after the start of the piece, it goes into a variation of "The Star Spangled Banner" (that was not yet our Anthem)....then it goes into a variation of "Hail Columbia" and Finally "Yankee Doodle". In fact, when the Yankee Doodle portion begins...your right hand is doing Yank Doodle and the left is doing final bit of Hail columbia. It truly find it an interesting piece. I don't believe it is available on ClassicalArchives but I could be mistaken. Le' Banjo is available.  If you have an opportunity to see the score for L'Union, or listen to it, please let me know what you think. I appreciate your imput tremendously.

Shag

[faulty_damper]

I remember that name now, Tureck!  I saw a short clip of her playing a fugue and whatnot on the Classic Arts Showcase that is broadcasted free without commericials 24 hours a day on whatever station decides to carry it.  She wasn't playing on a piano but on a harpsichord.  I can't recall exactly what I thought of it at the time but the tempo seemed to be correct - this is all I can recall.

But she played on a harpsichord.  Perhaps this is the reason you like her interpretations, Bernhard?  I mean the way she played since the lack of dynamics is different than on a piano.  Perhaps we should all start playing on a harpsichord because it would teach us how to phrase passages et al and work with limited range since dynamics can be used to conceal lack of expression - play the bass really loudly to cover up lousy melody playing.

[bernhard]

I remember that name now, Tureck!  I saw a short clip of her playing a fugue and whatnot on the Classic Arts Showcase that is broadcasted free without commericials 24 hours a day on whatever station decides to carry it.  She wasn't playing on a piano but on a harpsichord.  I can't recall exactly what I thought of it at the time but the tempo seemed to be correct - this is all I can recall.

But she played on a harpsichord.  Perhaps this is the reason you like her interpretations, Bernhard?  I mean the way she played since the lack of dynamics is different than on a piano.  Perhaps we should all start playing on a harpsichord because it would teach us how to phrase passages et al and work with limited range since dynamics can be used to conceal lack of expression - play the bass really loudly to cover up lousy melody playing.

He he he , Faulty, Now you really made me laugh. Rosalyn must be turning on her grave!

She is the one who originally advocated playing Bach on the piano using the full range of sonorities of the instrument. She abhorred Gould’s playing which she thought was too limited (Gould actually had his piano “doctored” so that it would sound like a harpsichord).

You see, in the 30s/40s the greatest  keyboard exponent of Bach was the Polish harpsichordist Wanda Landowska, a very dogmatic woman, who was one of the great forces behind the “authentic” early music revival. She was adamant that Bach could only be played on a harpsichord. In fact she was so successful in her campaign of playing Bach solely on historical instruments that Claudio Arrau gave up playing Bach on the piano (even though he had given a cycle of recitals in which he played all of Bach keyboard works). Arrau was later to regret this decision very much and went back to Bach in his 80s.

Needless to say, a young (in her 20s) upcoming Tureck clashed head on with well established in her 60s celebrated Landowska. They had a conversation about it all, and it started well enough, but soon they were at each other throats. From that conversation came the often quoted phrase (usually quoted wrong or missing the names of the people invoved):

Tureck to Landowska (admitting that they would have to agree to disagree):

“Well, you play Bach your way, I will play Bach his way!”

You see, Tureck besides being an accomplished virtuoso was also a formidable scholar who would investigate all possible sources of Bach’s manuscripts. Her wirtings on the shortcomings and contradictions of the early music movement are worth reading.

Yes, she played Bach on the harpsichord, but only as a pedagogical device. You see, she would play exactly the same piece on the harpsichord, and then on the piano using the full range of sonorities and in so doing demonstrate her main point to the audience: that not only Bach did sound better on the piano, as Bach’s music was instrument independent. She also played the Theremin (a precursor fo the modern synthesisers) to show that Bach would sound good even on an electronic instrument. The clip you saw probably was followed by a performance of the same piece either on this piano or on the theremin, but they just showed the harpsichord part.
Rosalyn Tureck single handedly brought Bach back to the piano and was the most important influence on Glenn Gould (but she was critical of him, and Gould did not want to give her too much credit for his own playing  - although he did give her some credit). She believed in pedalling, in using dynamics, and she hated when people suggested that Bach should be played machine-like. Here are some instances of her wisdom that I collected over a number of her master classes I attended (as a member of the audience):

Rosalyn Tureck’s wisdom:


Legato touch:

Legato means to make a connection, to bridge a gap. A bridge must touch the two sides of the abyss it crosses. If it touches only one side, it can not function as a bridge. If one lifts the finger before playing the next note there will be a gap, even if it is just for a split second.

There are infinite detached touches, but only one legato touch.

Repeated notes:

It demands great technique to do repeated notes legato. But it is rare that such legato is required. Usually repeated notes should be played detached, and this detachment will be part of the strength of the musical statement. In Bach particularly, repeated notes have a specific symbolism, which we can see from his choral work. This is the symbolism of words and ideas, specifically the phrase I believe in God.

Chromaticism:

Bach uses chromaticism whenever the mood is meditative or contemplative.

Counterpoint:

Much emphasis is played on melodic counterpoint. But there is rhythmic counterpoint as well, which is at least as important.

Rhythmic motives are as important as melodic ones: they give shape to the structure.

Virtuosity:

Some people believe I play fast. In fact, I do not play that fast, but I take time to make sure that every note is heard. It will sound faster and more virtuosistic if you kep the structure even at a slow tempo - people will have more to hear within a given unity of time.

Beats:

Stressing the correct beats brings out the harmonic structure of the motif.

The combination of downbeat with harmony is a clear indication of Bach’s intentions.

Everything is right on the page, but people don’t pay attention.

Difficulty:

Difficulty is not a premise on which to build an interpretation.

Artistry:

Be an artist, not a perfomer.

Pedal:

May one use the pedal when playing Bach?

The basic function of the pedal is to sustain sound. The harmonic idiom uses chords, resolutions and so on. But in counterpoint one does not need to sustain for there are multilevels that fit together.

So the question becomes: What is there to be sustained? Answer this question and you answer the pedal question. In general vertical music is more likely to require pedal than horizontal music.

Embellishments:

There is only one kind of trill in 19th century music. But in the 16th and 17th centuries trills could be played in many different ways. Embellishments on dotted notes in the French style have their own specific meaning.

Many pieces that are thought to be melodic (e.g. variation 13 of the Goldberg variations, Sarabande on partita 1) are in fact built upon embellishments. Bach has simply written out the embellishments so as not to leave any room for confusion or ambiguity.


You can also read an interesting article about her here:

https://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/story/0,3604,249819,00.html

and here:

https://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,3604,1001460,00.html


Best wishes,
Bernhard

[bernhard]

Thanks Bernhard...I will definately look for a "Tureck" CD, the Barnes and Nobles nearby carries a vast selection of the Pinaist from the 20th Century CD's as well.  I have not heard Gottschalk's "Great Triumphal Fantasy", but now I am dying to. Problem is I can't locate it anywhere, nor can I find a CD with that piece.
That's interesting that it is a spin-off of the Brazilian National Anthem. The piece that I will learn after the Banjo....L'Union is a musical declaration of Gottschalk's patriotism, and contains elements of the yet-undelcared national anthem and was dedicated to the head of the Union Forces. Shortly after the start of the piece, it goes into a variation of "The Star Spangled Banner" (that was not yet our Anthem)....then it goes into a variation of "Hail Columbia" and Finally "Yankee Doodle". In fact, when the Yankee Doodle portion begins...your right hand is doing Yank Doodle and the left is doing final bit of Hail columbia. It truly find it an interesting piece. I don't believe it is available on ClassicalArchives but I could be mistaken. Le' Banjo is available.  If you have an opportunity to see the score for L'Union, or listen to it, please let me know what you think. I appreciate your imput tremendously.

Shag

Look here for an interesting discussion on Gottschalk’s penchant for writing patriotic music:

https://www.balletalert.com/dancersforum/index.php?showtopic=16904

For CDs of Gotschalk’s piano music, look here:

https://www.ragtime.nu/cds_mandel.htm

You can hear the Grand Fantasie here:

https://music.goo.ne.jp/artist/ARTLISD438066_listen.html

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[faulty_damper]

Hmm... maybe you're right about the clip showing her playing on a harpsichord and then another clip on a piano.  It was an old video clip done in black and white.  I don't remember it very clearly but they'll probably show the clip again sometime so I'll pay more attention.

[Shagdac]

I listened to the "Grand Fantasie" piece. I found it very amusing. I certainly don't mean this as an insult to Mr. gottschalk, but the first thing that came to mind while listening to this piece was "old-time, western saloon music"! Or even a player piano.  I liked it though, I find I do most of his pieces.  Another favorite is Bamboula, Danse de Negres. But again, don't want to play too much of only Gottschalk. Does anyone know of any other sites where you can listen to music and actually see the score while it is playing, as well as slow it down and speed it up? The 2 sites I use the most are ClassicalArchives and Music-Scores. I would be interested in knowing if there are any others.

Thanks,
Shag