new, rebuilt, or used Steinways?

[Colette]

I've been searching (pretty unsuccessfully) for a new Steinway B for what seems like forever. I've looked at new, used and rebuilt models, but I'm not sure what type to buy. My teacher recommends buying new because it's guaranteed by Steinway, but used pianos are so much cheaper and often have a better sound, and I've heard that rebuilt pianos can be of even better quality, but u never really know what u are buying. What should I trust?

[Brian Lawson, RPT]

"What should I trust? "

Trust your ear as to what sounds good to you.

Hire a piano Tech to go look with you and have him tell you the pros and cons of each you see.

https://www.ptg.org/rptsearch/index.html

is one place to find techs in your area

[Richter]

There are LOTS of very good used and "rebuilt" Steinway B's out there, so take your time and find one that's perfect for you.  It is not a rare model by any means (not like the C, which is extraordinarily rare), but truly great ones are uncommon. Also, just because a new piano is covered by warranty doesn't necessarily mean the manufacturer will fix any problem that arises.  But make sure you do have a competent and reliable tech, who has a great deal of experience with Steinways,  thoroughly examine any piano that you are serious about, even a brand new one.  Having just gone through the process of buying a Steinway, I can tell you that buying a new one is by no means a guarantee of getting a flawless instrument.  

Incidentally, the true character of the instrument often only becomes apparent after a few years of use.   That, plus the savings, makes buying a used or properly rebuilt one all the more attractive.

[dinosaurtales]

Holy cow!  I've just got to know where you live!!   Out here used Steinways are not much cheaper than new ones, at least from what I've found so far.  Most people out here just pay what the dealer asks, and then asks the same price when they go to sell.  If I find a really good one that I just have to have, I would not hesitate to make a low offer, but the seller or dealer probably would not take it out here - because they will just wait a bit to get the full asking price.  So I am looking at other brands instead.  Steinways are great pianos, though, and the B is my fav if you have room for it!  Brian is correct, though.  DON'T take the dealers' word for anything.  There are some good ones, but mostly they are like car salesmen - they'll say whatever it takes to sell you a piano.(but they wouldn't admit it to YOU)
Good luck and let us all know if you find a good used one!  I understand that Steinway's #1 competition is Used Steinways!

[STS]

I've played the model B more than any other Steinway model.  I don't think its a matter of the new Steinways not being as good as the old.  But just remember, the new Steinways have really soft hammers that make the piano sound really dull and muddy.  Unlike most brands of piano, a Steinway is seldom prepped for performance use.  It takes a good deal of time to voice, and regulate the piano, to make it truly sound like a Steinway.  I used to have the same concerns as you.  But make sure you have a good technician experienced in servicing Steinways, and you won't be disappointed.  And yes, Steinways need some breaking-in before the quality really starts to show.  So I wouldn't hesitate to get a new Steinway at all.  You should really focus on the pianos potential.  Remember that all Steinways are handcrafted and therefore vastly different from one another.  A Steinway that you may not like, I or others may love.  And same vice-versa.  

Not too long ago, I was at a Steinway dealer trying out the pianos.  Sure, most of them weren't "prepped" and sounded dull.  But the few that were voiced and regulated were truly magnificant.  The model B and D there were just fabulous.  

Good luck in your search.  Hope all goes well.

H

[Colette]

I live in NY so i spent all day exhausting the piano selections at Steinway Hall...very fun but also very frustrating. I must have looked at 30 pianos, (i drove the salesman crazy) and only found one that i really liked. It's a great piano, a new B fresh from the factory. It has a very vibrant, healthy sound and a wonderful action. Definitely decided to go new, because i want to break in the piano myself and hear the changes in tone and color develop over the years. However, it's a bit too bright for my liking and the keyboard is not heavy enough...is there ever a perfect instrument, shoud i keep looking? grr.... this leads me to another kinda silly question. I know the Steinway experts can tweak the piano to fit your needs, but only after you've agreed to purchase it. will all that tweaking really result in what i expect? i'm afraid they'd change the nature/sound of the piano...and then it's too late. It just seems like an iffy procedure.  

[STS]

Hey Collete, yes your technician can voice it down.  Steinways have various limits on how bright the piano can sound without being harsh, but  a Steinway can always be voiced down.  Even the Steinways you don't like, can be made to sound good with a technicians help.  Be open minded about the ones that sound less appealing to you.  And take a careful look, you'd be surprised.  Do they have any hamburg Steinways there?  I personally think they are a bit bright and less bassy.  The selection of a Steinway is very personal.  I think you and I agree the Steinway is the best piano.  But it all comes down to personal preference.  The piano you like may not be what I like.  

Good luck to you.

H

[dinosaurtales]

Hey Collette!  I have exactly the same concern as you.  The Steinway techs/dealers keep saying that they can "Make the piano anything I want".  Now I know that with voicing and action regulating that big changes can be made, BUT.......  I play other brands right "out of the box" and they FEEL GREAT, SOUND GREAT, and LOOK GREAT.  It just seems weird to say "forget those - I'll get this piano that everybody SAYS can be great, even though I'm not sure about it now"  

Plus, the Steinways are more money out here.  Don't know what the market is in NY.  I am jealous.  I would LOVE to shop for pianos in NY!

[STS]

I think thats the problem of selecting  a Steinway.  I think its not because the Steinway is lesser quality than the other pianos, its that they are never prepped unless it is a model D or some B's.  I think the reason why Steinway doesn't prep their instruments is that each instrument is capable of a wide palette of tones.  Of course the bounds of each instrument vary one from another.  But I'm in an environment where I have access to many different Steinways from time to time, so after a while, I've gotten to know an instruments potential when I play it.  But that takes time getting used to.  

Plus, remember that the biggest base of Steinway customers are accomplished pianists who are very often divergent in their tastes.  Not to mention that, a lot of Steinways find their way in concert halls where visiting artists may request a different voicing from time to time.  So thats why Steinway is reluctant to prep the instrument.  

[rich_galassini]

I think that Steinway does not prep their pianos becaue they don't have to in today's marketplace.

I work with Cunningham Piano Company, a rebuilder in Philadelphia and there are techs. there in their 70s that remember new S&S pianos in the '50s. Although all pianos need to be prepped, they saw a steep curve in the late '60s in work needed on S&S pianos. certainly they can be wonderful, but it is a choice not to do basic prep to the piano.

Hi, Brian.

[classicarts]

There's a huge difference in price between a new, used, and rebuilts Steinways.  If you got the money to spend, I recommend buying brand new one, for the fact that everything is fresh out of the factory and has not been played.  Rebuilt ones are questionable depending who has built them.  There are few good used Steinway's out there if you spend the time to look and search.  No matter what you do, you need to take the time and even hire a tech to inspect the piano before you make the purchase.

[thalberg]

I just went to the factory to buy a piano and the pianos were not that great.  I chose one that I thought I a technician could improve but now I hate it and they're taking it back.

My advice----do NOT go the selection room route.  You have to pay half up front so you're committed to buying.  Just go to Steinway Hall and Steinway dealers, where you haven't given them any money and you can walk out the door if you want to.  I heartily regret my trip to the selection room.

Also, try Mason and Hamlin.  In my shopping process they surprised me with how wonderful the sound was.  I wish I had bought one.

[buddy]

I am intent on buying a piano, steinway, this week, how much can I expect to get off retail price? Please Help.

[Axtremus]

I am intent on buying a piano, steinway, this week, how much can I expect to get off retail price? Please Help.

Since no one else responded, I'd say anywhere from 0% to 10% off Steinway's official list price, more towards the 0-5% range than the 5%-10% range.

[buddy]

Do you think you can get a better deal at the Steineway factory or at the stores?  I live in California but am going to News York in December.  It is very confusing and when you are spending $45,000+ it is scary that you are making a mistake.  I remember the guy here who said he bought the steinway and hates it.  I don't know what to do and I want a piano so badly.

[iumonito]

Buddy, good luck with your piano search.  If you want a piano that badly and have a large budget, I would say call up Mr. Fandrich in Washington (the state) rather than buy something in New York.  He will give you good advice.

[Axtremus]

Do you think you can get a better deal at the Steineway factory or at the stores?

Neither. "Steinway" is not a brand to shoot for if you want a "deal," not even when you're looking for excellent used/rebuilt pianos with that name. You may be selecting a piano from the factory, but you'd still actually be buying from a dealer. And unless you're going for the big Model B (7') or Model D (9'), I don't think you'll get the privilege of selecting your piano from the factory.

Yes, it can be scary and you may be apprehensive of making a mistake. The best way I know how to deal with this, though time consuming (definitely not something you can do well within a week), is simple:

Play as many different pianos as you can.

The more you play, the better you become aware of what exactly it is that you're looking for in a piano and what's available out there at different price points, the better your chance of actually finding one that you will like (or at least know full well the compromises involved if you have to settle for second best due to budget/space constraints).

[stringoverstrung]

Never buy a Stainway B before you have tried the corresponding Boesendorfer model!

[pantonality]

My, my, so many opinions, so many people who have drunk the Steinway Kool-Aid.

Steinway dealers will tell you themselves that there's a lot of variability, each piano is unique. That's their way of spinning less than perfect manufacturing techniques. And why should they, many Steinways are purchased and never played. Why invest in quality and prep when it won't be appreciated. More Steinways are furniture (as opposed to musical instruments) than any other brand.

I recently went through the piano shopping experience and purchased an Estonia 190. To anyone in a rush to buy a piano let me say you're a fool. I shopped around for the better part of 6 months. I played a Charles Walter 190 (nice piano), I played a grey market Kawai (also nice), I played quite a few Petroffs (some very good, but the 9 footer was a disappointment), I played a Bosendorfer, Mason and Hamlin (both exquisite), I played a Pramberger (good value), I played several Schimmels (very nice pianos) and their less expensive cousin the Vogel (a good value). Other Kawais I played were voiced so mellow that they couldn't jump out of the box, the Pearl River's keyboard just felt cheap. I played a few Steinways, but my local dealer has them in a separate room, one that is plagued by flutter echo. The piano sounded awful.

I can't tell you how many times I heard we can make this piano sound any way you want. It's BS to get you to sign on the dotted line. I've heard from reliable sources that 90% of the sound of a piano is just the way it's made. Think about it. Some pianos have a high tension scale, others lower tension. Some have a duplex scaling, most don't. Some have single stringing, most don't.  And then there's the hammer strike point ratio. These are all design issues and that's before you get to quality of materials and workmanship. I'm not a tech so I tell your which pianos have what and what impact that will have on their sound. These are just some of the issues that came up while I was shopping.

So why did I buy an Estonia? For features it has the full Renner action (assembled by Renner with premium blue hammers) and a high tension full duplex scale. It has the thickest rim I saw on any piano. For sound it has a rich bass that can play soft and mellow or loud and growly. The treble is likewise capable of beautiful mellow tones or crashing all around you.  The sustain is to die for. The workmanship is impeccable and this piano is beautifully crafted. The bottomline is I found a beautiful (Bubinga) well prepared instrument and signed away. But the important thing is by the time I found it I knew what I wanted and what I didn't want.

I've heard a lot of people say they want a Steinway for the resale value. How dumb is that? If you want to get into the piano selling business that's one thing, but don't buy an instrument because someday you might sell it. I bought my instrument because I don't plan to sell it.