I have a new favorite composer - ALKAN!

[faulty_damper]

That's it.  I'm headed toward the music store tommorow.

[comme_le_vent]

CONGRATULATIONS!

tell all about what you like about him and his music, what are the works that you heard to make you love him?

tell all..........

[comme_le_vent]

and if you want free sheet music, just look here.....

https://piano.francais.free.fr/alkan/04_partitions_en.html

[faulty_damper]

How can someone who wrote such composition not have gotten any attention?!  He sounds better than Liszt, has more harmony... and yet he's not known ... I guess Liszt overshadowed him during that period.?

[Clare]

What is a good Alkan piece to start with?

[thomas_williams]

You guys have gotten me curious!  I've been reading this thread and have noticed other references to this composer on the forum.  I'm not familiar with Alkan's music and hardly know anything about him.  I'll have to check this out!

[comme_le_vent]

alkan is my favourite composer....heres a great biography..

https://www.allclassical.com/cg/acg.dll?p=acg&sql=1:98

Charles-Valentin Alkan is a composer i feel a great affinity with because of his general style, emotion, and of course the masterworks.

loving alkan as much as i do...i have a few pet peevs - especially people who say his music sounds mechanical - alkan's music affects me emotionally more than just about any other composer so i find this annoying.

as for him not being well known ...there is the fact that he was a recluse - a polar opposite to the famous franz liszt.

my favourite pianist is marc-andre hamelin, and he has recorded alkan's greatest works, those cds are a marriage made in heaven - get them!

and a good piece to start with?
it depends on how long a piece you want(up to 50 mins)
and how difficult a piece you can cope with(alkan's piano music is the most technically difficult music written in the 19th century)
but if you want a basic recomendation...
my introduction to alkan was his op39 no 12 - le festin d'aesop - probably his most attractive work to newcomers, but its very difficult technically
for a technically easy slow quiet piece - try his bacarolle op65 no6.

both of these works are on the hamelin cds i mentioned.

my exhaustive promotion of alkan will never cease....phew

[faulty_damper]

Heck, I never heard of Charles Alkan before I joined this forum.  I'm glad I did!

His etudes are great, they sound more "etude" like than Liszt or Chopin but they do sound great.

About the emotion of his music, it just seems so much easier for me to 'get into'.  Some of his works are triumphant but not terrible so like Mendelsohn's Military March or Chopin's Military polonaise - both of which I dislike terribly because the emotions don't strike any chords with me.

Alkan definitely trumps Liszt!

[alkanite]

Alkan does break many piano 'rules' or conventions of the day.  Harmonic progressions that some may say don't work, strange chords, occasionally downright un-pianistic writing, etc.  In fact, when playing Alkan, I can't help but feel that something isn't quite right about the whole thing.  

But that's the great thing about it.  Because he is so idiosynchratic in his writing, he is able to achieve some sounds (orchestral, harmonic) that no one else can.  This leads to extremes.  For example - there are passages, perhaps brief, that are more melancholic, triumphant, or downright terrifying than anything Chopin, Schumann, or Liszt could write.  It's quite disarming really.

[rachlisztchopin]

his melodies are nowhere near as genius as liszt, chopin, and schumann but he definitely deserves more publicity

[Rob47]

Im going to go out on a limb here and say you all love Marc Andre Hamelin way too much and would not even know Alkan had you not seen that stupid Super Virtuoso video and been blinded by the virtuosity.  

Yes Alkan is a great composer but he's no  Liszt or Chopin when it comes to writing beautiful melodies.
Yes I have heard the Marc Andre CD, and yes I have looked at scores. Iknow comme_le_wishes_he_was_marc_andre,   will completely try to rip me to s*** after  this post and that's fine man.  If your replies and rebutles to almost everything you disagree with on this forum reflect anywhere near the emotion you put into your playing, I'm sure you're a terrific pianist who may one day become a great interpreter of Alkan. But you should try other music as well instead of everything marc andre hamelin plays.  I think I recall you saying you've only been playing for a couple years?  Well just remember Schumann wanted so badly to be a virtuoso and look what happened to him.  

Unless of course you want to start a magazine.

Rob47

[rachlisztchopin]

what happened to schumann? im curious

[alkanite]

In response to the above replies, I never said Alkan could write more beautiful melodies than Chopin or Liszt.  I won't bother repeating myself.  I chose my adjectives carefully.  

Due to a combination of factors, including the lack of self-promotion, the inaccesibility (technically and musically) of the music to pianists and listeners respectively, and the fact that a lot of his writing is a bit dodgy means he will never attain the exposure or popularity of Chopin.

He is was a pianist's pianist, and unfortunately, after I've given some recitals, most non-pianist audience members never really got it, to my great dismay.

And Rob47, I put op76 #3 as my concert etude for my ARCT performers recital (Canada) 3 YEARS before Hamelin recorded the notorious Wigmore Hall CD in 1994.  And even if comme_le_vent only discovered him through Hamelin, big deal.  That was Hamelin's intention.  Michelle Wie started playing golf because she watched Tiger Woods win the 97 Masters.  How terrible.

[Rob47]

Schumann ruined his career trying to strengthen his fingers with some mechanical device, so they say, and then when he realized he could not play piano again started The New Journal of Music, where he criticized as well as gave composers acclaim. A very influential magazine at its time.

Rob47

[Rob47]

that's great alkanite. hey how old were you when u got your AR?

Rob

[comme_le_vent]

i have been a fan of alkan and hamelin for a good few years, and i think i am past the phase of being blinded by the sheer virtuosity.

yes i am a relative newcomer to the piano, and i play what i like, it just so happens that me and hamelin have similar taste in music...

telling who is the greatest composer between alkan chopin liszt or shumann etc cant really be done objectively. alkan's music certainly has more rhythmic intensity and drive than any of them, to me.

and that beatiful melody thing, thats also subjective - alkan's melodies are very beautiful to me, even if they are more unconventional.
have you even heard amie-moi? that melody is - to me - more beatiful than about anything by chopin.

alkan's music is often not pretty, yet it is always beautiful.
to quote hamelin - 'violence and anger in music can be very beautiful'.

alkan's music has more violence and anger than any of his contemporaries - and thats one of the reasons i find it so beautiful.

[alkanite]

In response to Rob:

I was 16 - too young really.  I was just getting into instrumental music.  My recital would be...much different today.  Except for the Alkan of course.  Are you canadian?

[Rob47]

Yes I am from Toronto also.  Did you attend that Hamelin concert a couple weeks(months?) ago?  I unfortunately didn't but I'm sure it was great. Wan't that an all Alkan concert? or Albeniz?

Who did you study with to get your ARCT? perhaps through some fluke chance we have studied with the same person?
 And say do you know of Peter Longworth? He, in my opinion, is one of the most talented Candian performers right now I think.  Yes, Hamelin is Canadian also. But still Peter Longworth, should you have an oppurtunity to attend one of his recitals, gives outstanding performances of mozart, beethoven, chopin, and anything else really. He is an exceptional  pianist.

Just interested to know,
Rob

[alkanite]

Missed the Hamelin as well.

I studied with Andrew Markow for my AR and did some concertos with him after that.  A truly great experience.

I don't know Peter Longworth, but will look for him.

[stevie]

interesting post, rob

[cziffra]

hahahahahhahhaahhahaahahahahahaha

[panic]

I know this is a year and a half late, but rob, Alkan was miles better than Liszt at melodies. Chopin and Schumann probably bettered Alkan in that category, but Liszt was child's play compared to him. Here's the thing. Basically never have I heard a Liszt melody at which I've thought, "There is no way a guy could have come up with that just doodling on the piano - he had to have had a flash of inspiration in his head." Almost never is that the case with Liszt. The melodies of Rachmaninoff and Dohnanyi and Chopin and Schubert and Alkan have that sense of cerebral inspiration and brilliance (and can often carry past 15 or 20 note changes and still sound convincing), but Liszt almost never does. His melodies nearly all sound as though he was TRYING to compose them, as if he was trudging through the dark trying to finish a theme, rather than as if they just came to him in full form; and as a result they sound less inspired and more cumbersome.
Alkan was a descendant of Schubert and a brother of Chopin in compositional style and his melodies often carry the same brilliance and genius as those of those two figures. Liszt's are nowhere near that level. So talk all you like about how Chopin and Schumann were better melodically than Alkan, and I won't disagree with you (although there are some exceptions), but Liszt doesn't even belong in the same sentence.

[Ruro]

His melodies nearly all sound as though he was TRYING to compose them, as if he was trudging through the dark trying to finish a theme, rather than as if they just came to him in full form; and as a result they sound less inspired and more cumbersome.

I agree, they are sometimes more predictable in my opinion too. The great Alkan adds several interesting twists along the way if ya ask me, and less repetition with the variation of the themes.
 I only recently become familiar with this composer, and wouldn't hesitate to put him in my "Top 5" of favourites, The Grande Sonate is simply astounding, and the Op.39 set is pretty impressive too. Still need to become familiar with his Concerti though, but they sound nice as well!

 I will add though Liszt has his darn brill moments, recently fell in love with his Totentanz again, along with a few excellent HR's, I really need to buy a set of those! Chopin though, never really "fell" for his music, but alot of it is great!

 And I havn't just stuck to Hamelin on the Alkan, I have some recordings by Jack Gibbons, who is quite the pianist it seems! Performs a sweet Comme Le Vent, and after I discovered what that means I couldn't help but laugh! It just totaly suits Da Comme somehow

[JCarey]

I like Alkan and Liszt about equally. I think they both have their moments, but both of them wrote some pieces that, to me, are utterly forgettable. Alkan's concerto for solo piano, however, is a true work of genius and beauty, and I have yet to hear a piece quite like it. The first "movement" especially, is at times so powerful that I often "forget" that I'm not listening to a piece for full orchestra.

Alkan was, indeed, a great master of composition, and it is a shame that he is not as famous as the likes of Liszt and Chopin.

And I havn't just stuck to Hamelin on the Alkan, I have some recordings by Jack Gibbons, who is quite the pianist it seems! Performs a sweet Comme Le Vent, and after I discovered what that means I couldn't help but laugh! It just totaly suits Da Comme somehow

I don't really like Hamelin's Alkan. Gibbons plays the music in a way that I find more "human." The musicality seems "true," whereas with Hamelin, I always get the feeling that he's trying to force himself to play musically instead of just letting it happen. Gibbons really has captured the essence of Alkan's style, in my opinion.

- John

[musicsdarkangel]

Alkan's solo piano concerto is incredible

[franzliszt2]

I'm glad to see so many nice comments on Alkan, I love his music, and I often get insulted for liking it, and I hear lots of bad, nasty ignorant views on his music. Its very difficult, and people who can't play stuff like that like to insult it because it makes them feel better. Obviously there are people who can't play it and hate it, but at least they dislike it for musical reasons rather than...."Why learn that rubbish its just virtuosity for the hell of it". I mean some of the harmonies are just amazing, and rival the music of liszt. Yet I have noticed, a lot of people who don;t like Liszt, hate Alkan

[devolution]

Firstly, hello. Secondly, I love Alkan. Thirdly, even though I love Alkan, I cannot for the life of me see how anyone would put Alkan as a composer above Liszt in any way.

The following quote isn't with regard to composing, but I thought it was interesting.

Alexandre de Bertha wrote: 'Alkan told me on a number of occasions how distressed he was when he first heard the young Franz Liszt play and, noticing Liszt's already stunning virtuosity, felt immediately relegated to the shadows. He had shed tears of frustration over this throughout the entire performance and had been unable to sleep a wink the following night. This was a little adolescent "brainstorm" which didn't prevent the two momentary rivals from forming a good relationship at a later date. That friendship was to last until the death of the "King of Piano" who, throughout his life, never missed an opportunity to visit his old-time friend when staying in Paris.'

Maybe this is why Alkan was so reclusive. Maybe he felt that he had to match Liszt in technique. This is just a guess, of course, I have no real idea. But anyway we're supposed to be talking composition 

I suggest you all read this regarding myths about Alkan.
https://www.jackgibbons.com/alkanmyths.htm

Now, the following isn't directed at anyone in particular. Just some points I want to make about things I read on this thread.

There is a reason why Liszt's melodies are so predictable. It's because you've heard so much modern music. Liszt helped invent modern music. To people in Liszt's time, those predictable melodies would have been new sounding brilliance. Too many times old music is heard and critiqued using modern ears. Put the horse before the cart why don't you 

Like I said, I love Alkan's music, it's brilliant. But Alkan's melodies often sound similar to Beethoven and are certainly more classical than futuristic. They are not as original as Liszt's music. Again, we have to think using a 19th century mindset. Liszt's melodies would have been highly original back then. Just cos you've heard them a trillian times in a trillian songs since liszt's death, doesn't mean that they weren't original or brilliant back then. Liszt was a hell of an inventor and went his own way. In Liszt's words 'I calmly persist in staying stubbornly in my corner, and just work at becoming more and more misunderstood.'

If there was a scale from 1 to 10 that represented music SCOPE. That is, the diversity of compositions in terms of musicality, technicality, originality. Liszt would get a big fat 10. His compositions over his lifetime were SO diverse. Alkan would be lucky to get a 5. Please understand that this does not mean that what he does in this 'scope' isn't good. I'm just pointing out a huge difference that cannot be ignored when comparing both composers.

Anyway  Alkan's music IS great and I DO love it and I think it should be played more. But c'mon, some of you are getting carried away with the whole better than Liszt thing.

If I sounded angry, I'm sorry, I wasn't at all! I definately don't have anything against anyone here. I'm just putting in my 2cents worth.

Thanks 

[notturno]

His "Allegro Barbaro" is pure fire.   

I also love his "La Chanson de la folie aubord de la mer " ;it's playable by mere mortals such as myself.  It's grade 4-6 maybe?

[tompilk]

he is amazing... simply put...
Tom

[panic]

The Op. 15 morceaux dans le genre pathetique are very underrated and surprised me, as I generally tend to think of the 10s as a span when Alkan was trying to lasso the virtuoso showy pianist within him in in his compositions. These three pieces are high art, in my opinion definitely reaching the artistic level of Liszt - who I have traditionally thought of as a better artist, if not a better pianistic composer, than Alkan - and occasionally perhaps even Chopin. Few pieces better epitomize the expression of the Romantic era than these for me. I'd like to play them relatively soon, as their technical demands seem more manageable than some of his more infamous pieces.