Why so much Bible stuff?

[wishful thinker]

What has it got to do with the piano?

We all have our "forms" of religion but why this constant discussion about the literal truth of the Bible?  Is this an American thing? It has never been an issue in my life, and not something that is ever discussed here, even amongst baptised people?

And what is the connexion with the piano?

[thalbergmad]

Well, it has nothing to do with piano and this is the anything but piano board.

It is sometimes my fault as if i am bored, i will coax pianistimo into making a biblical statement and then criticise her for doing it.

Sometimes, she needs no prompting at all.

Alistair don't help out much either.

Thal

[rach n bach]

Agree with thal

This is the ANYTHING BUT PIANO board.  If it was related to piano, it would have been moved to a different board.  By definition, it isn' supposed to have any connection!

RnB

[wishful thinker]

Yes, but I am a member of several diffent forums, but religion (or more specifically a rather peculiar literalist/heretical form of religion) only ever surfaces here. Why is that?

[thalbergmad]

Yes, but I am a member of several diffent forums, but religion (or more specifically a rather peculiar literalist/heretical form of religion) only ever surfaces here. Why is that?

Because pianistimo is not a member of the other forums you visit.

Thal

[cmg]

We all have our "forms" of religion but why this constant discussion about the literal truth of the Bible?  Is this an American thing? It has never been an issue in my life, and not something that is ever discussed here, even amongst baptised people?

And what is the connexion with the piano?

Well, I think religious preoccupation is a particularly American thing, thanks to the British!  You see, those who abandoned Britain for America claimed that it was relgious intolerance back home that made them do so.  I wasn't there, so I can't comment on this. 

I do know, however, as an American, that religion is the backbone of this country thanks to the Puritans.  New England is crawling with intellectualized piety.  In fact, the earliest texts in American literature are bloody, boring sermons!  Yes, religion is an American thing for sure.  The "Nation Under God" mantra is in the collective unconcious here (and stamped on our money).  Not that all of us subscribe to it, mind you.  But there it is.  Tedious and by now quite politicized.  Just observe how Bush has used religion to advance his policies in a country where many will be happy to go along.  But, again, not all of us. 

Connection with piano?  Absolutely none, except that pianistimo is a pianist, an American and a devout Christian.  She sure loves her Bible. 

[pianistimo]

i wish now to talk about pianowolfi.  he is not only a pianist but a true cyclist.  he carries everything.  tubes, tools, patch kits, etc. 

i tested him on this today when we came upon a friend that i know that also cycles who had just had a flat.  someone tried to help her and couldn't get her tube back into the tire and pumped up.  pianowolfi deftly popped the tube back in - pumped it up beyond the 'standard' and then started fixing her brakes, too.  she never complained about the brakes - but when he twisted this little dohicky - her brakes were tighter. 

we just stood there in awe.  i said - this is pianowolfi.  he is from switzerland and knows everything about bicycling and piano.  she said, 'where did you meet him?'  i said, 'the internet.'  she just laughed and laughed and said something like 'well, i knew you liked piano...'  then, i had to explain that he was just visiting and we're just friends.

[cmg]

You gotta love that pianowolfi!  How neat that you guys are pedalling about PA together.  You two should do some four-hand music before he splits.

[pianistimo]

off to the philadelphia museum of art.

[cmg]

In that case, since hubby's feeling a tad neglected, I won't invite you and wolfi to grab your bikes and hop on the train to NYC.  We could do the great bike trail down the Hudson to Battery Park.  Dine at the South Street Seaport.  On me.

Next time!

[wishful thinker]

Well, I think religious preoccupation is a particularly American thing, thanks to the British!  You see, those who abandoned Britain for America claimed that it was relgious intolerance back home that made them do so. 

You may be right here, but to me it is still weird.  We English are a very pragmaic people, but things can always be taken too far.

Part of the growing tension here, maybe 

[cmg]

You may be right here, but to me it is still weird.  We English are a very pragmaic people, but things can always be taken too far.

Part of the growing tension here, maybe 

And I think you're right, as well:  the British ARE a very pragmatic people.  It was the Puritans.  So obnoxiously dogmatic that even the British found them irritating!  Lucky us, they hit these shores many years ago and stamped their nonsense on the American psyche. 

And to think that the TRUE native Americans, the Indians, were much more sophisticated in their spiritual systems.  Of course, the White Man insisted they had to go.  "Heathen" and all that.  So what do we get stuck with?  The Puritans. 

[thalberg]

 

[ahinton]

Alistair don't help out much either.

Thal

What have I done wrong here, then? In other words, how in particular have I sinned?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

well, my husband's had enough of him.  he rarely gets jealous, too.

OK - that's it - I'll give PA a wide berth, then - don't want to be the possible cause of any more potential rifts between those whom God has joined together..

i think it's the piano playing that did it.

Well, that wouldn't be the case if I were in "pianowolfi"'s place, that's for sure!


Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

cmg - the 'great hudson to battery park?'  somehow battery park makes me think we might get battered there.  is it safe?  eating out at south street seaport is probably very nice, though.  thanks for the offer!  i'll pass it to pianowolfi  he might take u up on that one.

i can't leave my children for more than a couple of hours.  the oldest is 18 soon -but the thing is that he doesn't do quality babysitting for more than a couple of hours.  it's a paid thing, to him, and understandably so. 

[prometheus]

I do know, however, as an American, that religion is the backbone of this country thanks to the Puritans.

The US was founded and people immigrated there because they had enough of the intolerance of religion and enough of divine rights of kings, monarchs and all that stuff. Also, the catholic church being a relevant political and even military force.


The US has a secular country and was founded by those intellectual types you seem to dislike.


The 'One nation under god' and 'god with us' was only added in 1954.

[jlh]

The US was founded and people immigrated there because they had enough of the intolerance of religion and enough of divine rights of kings, monarchs and all that stuff. Also, the catholic church being a relevant political and even military force.


The US has a secular country and was founded by those intellectual types you seem to dislike.

I would not dare say that the US government is a "Christian" government (It is not a "theocracy"), but just look through history with me and you will see why America has such a strong tie with the Christian faith. 

History seems to contradict your statement.

Notable dates:

1490-1492 - Columbus' commission was given to set out to find a new world.

According to Columbus' personal log, his purpose in seeking undiscovered worlds was to "bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the heathens. .... It was the Lord who put into my mind ... that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies ... I am the most unworthy sinner, but I have cried out to the Lord for grace and mercy, and they have covered me completely ... No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His holy service." (Columbus' Book of Prophecies)

April 10, 1606 - The Charter for the Virginia Colony read in part:

"To the glory of His divine Majesty, in propagating of the Christian religion to such people as yet live in ignorance of the true knowledge and worship of God."

November 3, 1620 - King James I grants the Charter of the Plymouth council.

"In the hope thereby to advance the enlargement of the Christian religion, to the glory of God Almighty."

November 11, 1620 - The Pilgrims sign the Mayflower Compact aboard the Mayflower, in Plymouth harbor.

"For the glory of God and advancement of ye Christian faith ... doe by these presents solemnly & mutually in ye presence of God and one of another, covenant & combine our selves togeather into a civill body politick."

March 4, 1629 - The first Charter of Massachusetts read in part:

"For the directing, ruling, and disposeing of all other Matters and Thinges, whereby our said People may be soe religiously, peaceablie, and civilly governed, as their good life and orderlie Conversacon, maie wynn and incite the Natives of the Country to the Knowledg and Obedience of the onlie true God and Savior of Mankinde, and the Christian Fayth, which in our Royall Intencon, and The Adventurers free profession, is the principall Ende of the Plantacion.."

January 14, 1638 - The towns of Hartford, Weathersfield and Windsor adopt the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut.

"To mayntayne and presearve the liberty and purity of the Gospell of our Lord Jesus, which we now professe..."

August 4, 1639 - The governing body of New Hampshire is established.

"Considering with ourselves the holy will of God and our own necessity, that we should not live without wholesome laws and civil government among us, of which we are altogether destitute, do, in the name of Christ and in the sight of God, combine ourselves together to erect and set up among us such government as shall be, to our best discerning, agreeable to the will of God..."

September 26, 1642 - The rules and precepts that were to govern Harvard were set up.

"Let every Student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well, the maine end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is eternall life, John 17:3 and therefore to lay Christ in the bottome, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and Learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdome, Let every one seriously set himselfe by prayer in secret to seeke it of him Prov. 2.3."

Harvard College was founded on Christi Gloriam and later dedicated Christo et Ecclesiae. The founders of Harvard believed that "all knowledge without Christ was vain."

The charter of Yale University clearly expressed the purpose for which the school was founded: "Whereas several well disposed and Publick spirited Persons of their sincere Regard to & zeal for upholding & propagating of the Christian Protestant Religion ... youth may be instructed in the Arts & Sciences who through the blessing of Almighty God may be fitted for Publick employment both in Church & Civil State."

In addition to Harvard and Yale, 106 out of the first 108 schools in America were founded on the Christian faith.

April 3, 1644 - The New Haven Colony adopts their charter.

"That the judicial laws of God, as they were delivered by Moses ... be a rule to all the courts in this jurisdiction ..."

1647 - Governor William Bradford publishes Of Plimouth Plantation.

"Lastly, (and which was not least,) a great hope and inward zeall they (the Pilgrims) had of laying some good foundation, or at least to make some way thereunto, for ye propagation and advancing of ye gospell or ye kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of ye world; yea, though they should be but stepping-stones unto others for ye performing of so great a work ... their desires were set on ye ways of God, and to employ his ordinances; but they rested on his providence, and know whom they had beleeved."

April 21, 1649 - The Maryland Toleration Act is passed.

"Be it therefor ... enacted ... that no person or persons whatsoever within this province ... professing to believe in Jesus Christ shall ... henceforth be any ways troubled, molested (or disapproved of) ... in respect of his or her religion nor in the free exercise thereof ..."

April 25, 1689 - The Great Law of Pennsylvania is passed.

"Whereas the glory of Almighty God and the good of mankind is the reason and the end of government ... therefore government itself is a venerable ordinance of God ..."

May 20, 1775 - North Carolina passes the Mecklenburg County Resolutions.

"We hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people; are, and of a right ought to be, a sovereign and self-governing association, under control of no other power than that of our God and the general government of Congress."

Summer 12, 1775 - Continental Congress issues a call to all citizens to fast and pray and confess their sin that the Lord might bless the land.

"And it is recommended to Christians of all denominations, to assemble for public worship, and to abstain from servile labor and recreation on said day."

Summer 2-4, 1776 - Declaration of Independence written and signed.

"We hold these truths ... that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights ... appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world ... And for the support of this Declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence..."

As the Declaration was being signed, Samuel Adams said: "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let his kingdom come."

On the same day, Benjamin Franklin suggested that the national motto be: "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."

Historian and philosopher G.K. Chesterton said of the founding of America that it is "the only nation in the world that is founded on a creed. That creed is set forth in dogmatic and even theological lucidity in the Declaration of Independence."

[jlh]

Con't:

September 17, 1787 - The Constitution of the United States is finished.

At least 50 out of the 55 men who framed the Constitution of the United States were professing Christians. (M.E. Bradford, A Worthy Company, Plymouth Rock Foundation., 1982).

Eleven of the first 13 States required faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as qualification for holding public office.

The Constitution of each of the 50 States acknowledges and calls upon the Providence of God for the blessings of freedom.

1787 - James Madison, the "architect" of the federal Constitution and fourth president:

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future .. upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God."

April 30, 1789 - Washington gives his First Inaugural Address.

"My fervent supplications to that Almighty Being Who rules over the universe, Who presides in the council of nations, and Whose providential aid can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a government instituted by Himself for these essential purposes."

March 11, 1792 - President George Washington:

"I am sure that never was a people who had more reason to acknowledge a Divine interposition in their affairs than those of the United States; and I should be pained to believe that they have forgotten that agency which so often manifested in the Revolution."

December 20, 1820 - Daniel Webster, Plymouth Massachusetts:

"Let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers brought hither their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate ... and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political and literary."

July 4, 1821 - John Quincy Adams:

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity. From the day of the Declaration ... they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of the Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledged as the rules of their conduct."

1833 - Noah Webster:

"The religion which has introduced civil liberty, is the religion of Christ and his apostles ... This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free constitutions and government ... the moral principles and precepts contained in the Scripture ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws."

1841 - Alexis de Tocqueville (Democracy in America):

"In the United States of America the sovereign authority is religious ... there is no other country in the world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America."

Summer 8, 1845 - President Andrew Jackson asserts:

"The Bible is the rock upon which our Republic rests."

February 11, 1861 - Abraham Lincoln, farewell at Springfield, Illinois:

"Unless the great God who assisted (Washington) shall be with me and aid me, I must fail; but if the same Omniscient Mind and Mighty Arm that directed and protected him shall guide and support me, I shall not fail ... Let us all pray that the God of our fathers may not forsake us now."

Lincoln on the Bible:

"In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it, we would not know right from wrong. All things most desireable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it." (George L. Hunt, Calvinism and the Political Order, Westminster Press, 1965, p.33)

1884 - U.S. Supreme Court reiterates the Declaration's reference to our rights as being God-given.

These inherent rights have never been more happily expressed than in the Declaration of Independence, "we hold these truths to be self-evident" that is, so plain that their truth is recognized upon their mere statement "that all men are endowed" - not by edicts of emperors, or by decrees of parliament, or acts of Congress, but "by their Creator with certain inalienable rights and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and to secure these" - not grant them but secure them "governments are instituted among men."

1891 - The U.S. Supreme Court restates that America is a "Christian Nation."

"Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian ... this is a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation ... we find everywhere a clear definition of the same truth ... this is a Christian nation." (Church of the Holy Trinity vs. United States, 143 US 457, 36 L ed 226, Justice Brewer)

1909 - President Theodore Roosevelt:

"After a week on perplexing problems ... it does so rest my soul to come into the house of The Lord and to sing and mean it, 'Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty' ... (my) great joy and glory that in occupying an exalted position in the nation, I am enabled, to preach the practical moralities of the Bible to my fellow-countrymen and to hold up Christ as the hope and Savior of the world." (Ferdinand C. Iglehart, Theodore Roosevelt - The Man As I knew Him, A.L. Burt, 1919)

1913 - President Woodrow Wilson:

"America was born to exemplify the devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the Holy Scriptures."

1952 - US Supreme Court defines the "Separation of Church and State."

"We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being ... No Constitutional requirement makes it necessary for government to be hostile to religion and to throw its weight against the efforts to widen the scope of religious influence. The government must remain neutral when it comes to competition between sects ... The First Amendment, however, does not say that in every respect there shall be a separation of Church and State."

January 20, 1977 - President Jimmy Carter:

"Here before me is the Bible used in the inauguration of our first President in 1789, and I have just taken the oath of office on the Bible my mother gave me just a few years ago, opened to the timeless admonition from the ancient prophet Micah: 'He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God'" (Micah 6:2).

1980 - President Ronald Reagan:

"The time has come to turn to God and reassert our trust in Him for the Healing of America ... our country is in need of and ready for a spiritual renewal."

May 3, 1990 - President George Bush proclaims National Day of Prayer.

"The great faith that led our Nation's Founding Fathers to pursue this bold experience in self-government has sustained us in uncertain and perilous times; it has given us strength to this very day. Like them, we do very well to recall our 'firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence,' to give thanks for the freedom and prosperity this nation enjoys, and to pray for continued help and guidance from our wise and loving Creator."

[jlh]

The 'One nation under god' and 'god with us' was only added in 1954.

You mean "In God We Trust"? 

[prometheus]

Ooh wait, 'god with us' was on our old guldens. So, yes.

[ramseytheii]

One should be careful confusing "God" with "Christian," though Christians do it all the time. Many of the figures you quote above were not Christians but Deists, believed Jesus to be a mortal, and professed faith in no church (were anti-church and anti-clergy). 

And, all the Jesus Christ quotes in the world can't hide the content of the First Amendment, which specifically linked freedom of speech with freedom of, and more importantly, from, religion.

Walter Ramsey

[jlh]

One should be careful confusing "God" with "Christian," though Christians do it all the time. Many of the figures you quote above were not Christians but Deists, believed Jesus to be a mortal, and professed faith in no church (were anti-church and anti-clergy). 

Walter Ramsey

Even if you are right (I know that George Washington never stated he was a Christian, though he was a diest), the statement was that the US was founded by secular, rather than diest beliefs.  Secular humanists are by definition athiest, so the figures I quoted were appropriate in my opinion.

[ramseytheii]

Even if you are right, the statement was that the US was founded by secular, rather than diest beliefs.  Secular humanists are by definition athiest, so the figures I quoted were appropriate in my opinion.

I think the disconnect between religion and the operations of government clearly indicates a secular mission.  Everyone in England is required to pay a tax for the Church of England, whether they belong to that church or not.  Thank the Heavenly Father that in America, we do not have to confuse religion with operations of state, no matter what religion our leaders claim to be.

Walter Ramsey

[jlh]

I think the disconnect between religion and the operations of government clearly indicates a secular mission.  Everyone in England is required to pay a tax for the Church of England, whether they belong to that church or not.  Thank the Heavenly Father that in America, we do not have to confuse religion with operations of state, no matter what religion our leaders claim to be.

Walter Ramsey

It is the subject of much more debate than this forum could handle to discuss separation of church and state.  The wording of the 1st amendment only mentions the congress, but courts have interpreted it to include all 3 branches of government.

I never said the US is [or should be] a Theocracy.  To want that is to show ignorance of history and to throw away lessons from history.  I don't think it was a secular mission of the founding fathers when they amended the constitution.  They were wisely reacting to what happened with the Church of England and what was happening in some of the colonies.  IMO, it doesn't reflect a desire by them to limit church interest in state affairs, but to not repeat the same mistake England and other countries made.

[prometheus]

Maybe you are seeing history in a different way then, well let me put it this way, most people.

[timothy42b]

Yes, but I am a member of several diffent forums, but religion (or more specifically a rather peculiar literalist/heretical form of religion) only ever surfaces here. Why is that?

Might just be luck.  I also am a member of several other boards, and the same religion threads (the fundies vs the skeptics) surface on all of them.

[pianistimo]

i thought six or seven supreme court justices were catholic.  but, always certain republican representatives are dismissed for having strong ideas about their beliefs.  i think america will always have a sort of division between those who believe in different ways about God and those who don't believe in God at all.  but, so far, our country is still basically united on the principles of freedom for all.  this is a unique thing and probably stems from 'indivisible, one nations for all.'  what made our country indivisible is the invisible hand of God, imo.  He blessed our country for making Him the center.  but, now, with 'in God we trust' coming off certain coins - and our money being made the center of jokes as to it's true value (not following a gold standard) - it makes it look like belief in God is not worth anything. 

[ramseytheii]

i thought six or seven supreme court justices were catholic.  but, always certain republican representatives are dismissed for having strong ideas about their beliefs.  i think america will always have a sort of division between those who believe in different ways about God and those who don't believe in God at all. 

That will continue as long as the faithful attempt to legislate or criminalize those who don't believe in God.  These days you hear the insufferable and unconstitutional tripe about "A person of faith should be elected President, no matter what the faith," usually said by the cultist running for President, but that assuredly does not cover those of the Jewish or Muslim faith.  When Christians use such words as "faith," they only refer to each other.

Walter Ramsey

[ahinton]

The Bible has 75 chapters (at least for those on Pianoforum) but less authors than is generally thought by those less familiar with matters of the keyboard; 48 of them were written by St. John and the other 27 by St. Fryderyk.

They contain multitudinous truths.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I think hinty has had too much holy wine.

Thal

[ahinton]

I think hinty has had too much holy wine.

Thal

Do stop using that epithet (even if only just to humour me); you know my real name! I've had no wine at all yet today and, when I do, it won't be holy. I'm right, though, surely?...

Best,

Alistair

[cmg]

The US has a secular country and was founded by those intellectual types you seem to dislike.

Whatever on earth that statement means! 

If you are referring to those who drafted the Declaration and the Constitution, yes, they are "intellectual types" and hardly disliked by me.  As individuals who could be described as being representatives of the 18th century Enlightenment movement that began in France, they have my total respect and admiration.

I was referring NOT to the founders, but to the first colonists (Puritans, the so-called Pilgrims) who left Britain and settled New England.  This is the group with their incredibly rigid views on dogma and disgust for all things human and physical that I disdain.  And it is THEIR influence that has marked America to this day.  That's the "religious backbone" I was referring to. 

The so-called Deists fall under the Enlightenment movement and were not Puritans.  We have to be grateful for them for rescuing Americans from a religious state and fashioning a secular one.

But, the fact remains, the rank-and-file American is fundamentalist to the core.  Even Hillary Clinton is praying in public these days as she campaigns.  She knows how the wind blows here.  The Puritan ethos, as every American knows, is alive and well in this country.  That's what accounts for our incredible hypocrisy.

A secular nation in name, but not in practice. 

[ramseytheii]

Whatever on earth that statement means! 

If you are referring to those who drafted the Declaration and the Constitution, yes, they are "intellectual types" and hardly disliked by me.  As individuals who could be described as being representatives of the 18th century Enlightenment movement that began in France, they have my total respect and admiration.

I was referring NOT to the founders, but to the first colonists (Puritans, the so-called Pilgrims) who left Britain and settled New England.  This is the group with their incredibly rigid views on dogma and disgust for all things human and physical that I disdain.  And it is THEIR influence that has marked America to this day.  That's the "religious backbone" I was referring to. 

As Thomas Pynchon refers to the backbone, "That dorsal column which so oft resembles a rod shoved up the arse."

Walter Ramsey

[diminished2nd]

One should be careful confusing "God" with "Christian," though Christians do it all the time. Many of the figures you quote above were not Christians but Deists, believed Jesus to be a mortal, and professed faith in no church (were anti-church and anti-clergy). 

And, all the Jesus Christ quotes in the world can't hide the content of the First Amendment, which specifically linked freedom of speech with freedom of, and more importantly, from, religion.

Walter Ramsey

Whoa it seriously has the word "from" in there? 'cause all I ever heard was the "freedom of religion" part, but never from... Although I guess if you want to infer that, you could since freedom of religion would constitute not claiming any religion at all.

[jlh]

The Bible has 75 chapters (at least for those of on Pianoforum) but less authors than is generally thought by those less familiar with matters of the keyboard; 48 of them were written by St. John and the other 27 by St. Fryderyk.

They contain multitudinous truths.

Best,

Alistair

What on earth are you talking about?  I've been trying to figure it out to no avail.

[ahinton]

What on earth are you talking about?  I've been trying to figure it out to no avail.

I admit to and apologise for the superfluous and erroneous "of" but suspect that it is not this that is precluding your "figuring it out" and, if not, then I don't know why you post on a forum like this one - it seems pretty transparent to me and, as you've noticed, no one else seems to be expressing any difficulty understanding it...

Best,

Alistair

[ramseytheii]

I admit to and apologise for the superfluous and erroneous "of" but suspect that it is not this that is precluding your from "figuring it out" and, if not, then I don't know why you post on a forum like this one - it seems pretty transparent to me and, as you've noticed, no one else seems to be expressing any difficulty understanding it...

Best,

Alistair

Though I have heard 48 chapters were written by St John, and 32 were written by St. Louis.  I suppose historical research is still in a state of infancy...


Walter Ramsey

[ahinton]

Though I have heard 48 chapters were written by St John, and 32 were written by St. Louis.

Well, that's better that trying to claim that 32 were written IN St. Louis, I suppose - but at least it demonstrates that you understand the reference which so far seems sadly to have escaped "jlh"...

I suppose historical research is still in a state of infancy...

Well, that's better than infants being in a state of historial research, I suppose...

Best,

Alistair

[jlh]

I admit to and apologise for the superfluous and erroneous "of" but suspect that it is not this that is precluding your from "figuring it out" and, if not, then I don't know why you post on a forum like this one - it seems pretty transparent to me and, as you've noticed, no one else seems to be expressing any difficulty understanding it...

Best,

Alistair

Ah... gotcha...    If you would have used the German spelling of John, it would've been clearer. 

[pianistimo]

johann had nothing to do with this. 

*plays the grand canyon suite to get some repose from all this bible bashing.

[jakev2.0]

The Grand Canyon was crafted with love by Jesus Christ of Nazareth over the course of 3 days and 3 nights, with breaks only intermittently for the imbibation of holy, ice cold, thirst-quenching lemonade.

[pianistimo]

speaking things into existence isn't for the weak.  perhaps the mountains and the valley's change positions every so many thousands of years - but the flood surely made an impact here - considering that it probably happened at the same time as a great earthquake.  the formation of this 'grand' canyon isn't easily explained by science alone.

have you been there, jake?  it's awesome.

[jakev2.0]

The Grand Canyon is easily explained by science alone, if you know anything about geology, which I assume you don't. 

[pianistimo]

the small river at the bottom - for many years - was the proposed theory.  this river cut through (obviously could have been a bit bigger at times - but not enough to cut through to the top layers of the canyon) and supposedly made the 'grand' canyon.

i believe this canyon was made by a MASSIVE amount of water.  at one or two times in history.  along with seismic activity.

scientists can be numbskulled at times.

[jakev2.0]