"Bebung" effect?

[nomis]

On page 39 of Arrau on Music and Performance, Claudio Arrau states that Krause taught him the bebung effect, which is described in the footnote as: "On the modern piano, a trembling effect produced by redpressing the key without letting it come all the way up." I currently don't have access to an acoustic piano, so I can't test to see if it works. Have you ever used it before? Or is it just the result of a faulty action (Glenn Gould comes to mind)?

[elevateme_returns]

you should use it in the first section of the g minor ballade. the chopin one i mean. when the theme plays at the start, use it on the 2 chords which follow the downbeat

[franzliszt2]

I used it in Rach paganini rhapsody in variation 14 where the piano has millions of huge chords! The only way to the 2nd of each repeated chord it to bebung

[counterpoint]

Bebung is a specialty of the clavichord, where it's possible to make a sort of vibrato after the key is already pressed.

On a normal piano, Bebung is impossible. Perhaps Arrau used the word in a wrong context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clavichord

[elevateme_returns]

perhaps bebung has two meanings. because i know for a fact that the 1st post is correct. but its not a trembling effect, it just feels like, pushing the hammer again before it gets chance to come back up

[ramseytheii]

Bebung is a specialty of the clavichord, where it's possible to make a sort of vibrato after the key is already pressed.

On a normal piano, Bebung is impossible. Perhaps Arrau used the word in a wrong context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clavichord

Bebung was the name of the original technique for vibrating the string on a clavichord, but the effect is not the same as the technique; after all, Beethoven composed the effect into his sonata op.110 in A-flat major.  It isn't possible to add vibrations to the string on the piano, obviously, but it is possible to imitate that sound.  Arrau's technique is the correct one, and is also the technique one would use in Classical music for forte-piano dynamics (for instance the last movement of Schubert D960, or the second movement of Beethoven op.10 no.3).

I don't know the physical reason for it, but playing like this takes most of the body away from the sound, leaving a sort of echo, which if you were imitating Bebung, would sound like a vibration of the note, rather than two notes (this is the technique employed in op.110).

A similar technique, used a lot by pianists of the old school but hardly at all these days, is playing staccatissimo chords, and grabbing their vibration with the pedal the split-second after you release the keys.

Walter Ramsey

[elevateme_returns]

I don't know the physical reason for it, but playing like this takes most of the body away from the sound, leaving a sort of echo, which if you were imitating Bebung, would sound like a vibration of the note, rather than two notes (this is the technique employed in op.110).

and this fits the bill perfectly for the chords in ballade 1

[jinfiesto]

Bebung can be done on a piano, although it doesn't work well for a vibrato effect. It's used to imitate older pianos, on which the sound would decay much faster. Anyways, the idea of the technique is to lightly tap the strings with the dampers so that the sound decays faster, that way you can do a fortepiano on a single note. This is used with some frequency in the grave part of the first movement of the pathetique for example. This can also be done with the damper pedal, the idea again being to let the dampers down just enough to let the fuzz contact the strings without completely dampening the sound.

[jlh]

Stole this from the ABRSM forum.

ajm3212 wrote:

"In the Baroque Bebung is the technical word for putting additional pressure on a note after it has already been depressed in order to achieve vibrato. The only keyboard instrument on which this is possible is the Clavichord and the result is a raised vibrato.

It is never possible to achive this effect on either the piano or harpsichord.

By the Classical period bebung was not used in this sense as the popularity of the Clavichord was waning and composers like Schubert and Beethoven were writing for the pianoforte where the tone cannot be changed once the note has been depressed. However, the term bebung began to mean the repeated playing of a note to extend it's vibration. The opening of Beethoven's Waldstein sonata could therefore be described as being in a bebung style.

I think the 19th century meaning was the repetition of a note when it has no harmonic or melodic significance."

[fnork]

Bebung can be done on a piano, although it doesn't work well for a vibrato effect. It's used to imitate older pianos, on which the sound would decay much faster. Anyways, the idea of the technique is to lightly tap the strings with the dampers so that the sound decays faster, that way you can do a fortepiano on a single note. This is used with some frequency in the grave part of the first movement of the pathetique for example. This can also be done with the damper pedal, the idea again being to let the dampers down just enough to let the fuzz contact the strings without completely dampening the sound.

A pianist of today that uses this fortepiano effect a lot is Olli Mustonen. Listen for instance to his Pictures at an exhibition, "The castle", where he does it in the sforzando chords - there are numeous instances where he does it throughout the piece but I don't remember them. In "the catacombs", where you have sforzando chords and then a piano (or pianissimo?) chord with some notes from the sforzando chord tied over, he plays sforzando only on the notes that are not tied over to the next chord - probably the best solution.

[pianowelsh]

Bebung 'was' a vibrato effect on the clavichord. We cant exactly do it on the modern piano but we can do the replaying of the key without it re striking which we still call 'bebung' it does give a sort of vibrato effect as it continues the sound a little longer and without the full effect of a retake. Its not possible on all pianos - you need one with a fairly good action.  I remember learning this technique in the first mvt of Beethovens Pastoral sonata in D! - which should be played more often is a great work and very valueable for study.

[ramseytheii]

A pianist of today that uses this fortepiano effect a lot is Olli Mustonen. Listen for instance to his Pictures at an exhibition, "The castle", where he does it in the sforzando chords - there are numeous instances where he does it throughout the piece but I don't remember them. In "the catacombs", where you have sforzando chords and then a piano (or pianissimo?) chord with some notes from the sforzando chord tied over, he plays sforzando only on the notes that are not tied over to the next chord - probably the best solution.

Good point, I forgot about his piano playing.  He seems to use attacks like that all the time; in my opinion it becomes gimmicky (I have his Beethoven bagatelles/short pieces disc, and the Hindemith-Prokofiev disc).  Especially in the Prokofiev which sounds undignified.

Another place to use this technique, I just recalled, is in the first movement of Schoenberg op.11, which calls for a lot of such sound manipulating techniques.

Walter Ramsey

[fnork]

Agreed about Mustonen - he does lots of wierd things when it comes to articulation, I'm usually just annoyed by his playing. There's a recording of Prokofievs third on youtube where he plays ultra-staccatissimo throughout the third movement...