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Topic: Prokofiev sonata questions  (Read 2092 times)

Offline troglodyte

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Prokofiev sonata questions
on: July 22, 2007, 12:12:07 PM
Questions on Prokofiev sonata no 9:

2nd movement, m8, seventh quaver, RH has D-F where D is written with an accidental natural and F is sharp according to the signature. So, it should be D-F#. But there is absolutely no reason to write out the accidental for D. It is not sharp according to signature and not accidentally sharp in that measure or the measure before. This suggests it is a misprint, and that the accidental natural should be applied to F, giving D-F (both naturals). Is this how it should be played?

3rd movement, m8, second crotchet, LH is Db-F-Bb, but some recordings, including Richter, seem to play Db-G-Bb.

Later in 3rd movement it says "Allegro Sostenuto". Does this mean a slower form of Allegro (if so how slow) or something else?

Btw is there an authorative edition of this work? I have both the Boosey&Hawkes and the Kalmus, and they agree on the above (possible) misprints.

Offline furtwaengler

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Re: Prokofiev sonata questions
Reply #1 on: July 22, 2007, 09:50:35 PM
Very interesting… I don’t think you’re in trouble in the third movement; I’d say the F in the chord is correct as marked, as I listened to multiple versions, and none played a G. (BTW, what a lovely movement it is! Prokofiev at his most magical!)

There is, however, great variation in the recordings regarding the second movement spot. Yefim Bronfman is the only one to play as you have written, D-F sharp. A few others play D-F natural, but the great majority play F natural - A, matching the C-E of two bars earlier. The piece’s dedicatee, Sviatoslav Richter, plays D-F natural in his earlier Prague recital, while two later Richter performances have F natural - A. I’m not sure if Prokofiev made any small revisions, but I do know composers in general sometimes fret over deciding such things. I do not know what the best edition is, but if we are without such a thing the most logical answer is to play F-A, matching the pattern of the run two measures prior. It’s the most logical technically, musically, and it sounds the best.

I hope this helps, and I offer you thanks for giving me reason to investigate this sonata again. The third movement truly made my day!

Dave
Don't let anyone know where you tie your goat.

Offline pita bread

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Re: Prokofiev sonata questions
Reply #2 on: July 23, 2007, 04:52:29 AM
I still can't believe I accidentally bought the score for this instead of the 8th sonata....

Offline invictious

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Re: Prokofiev sonata questions
Reply #3 on: July 25, 2007, 09:18:37 AM
Wow, you are learning one of Prokofiev's later sonatas. Looks very discouraging to me.

Actually, that question got me too. Even on 6th bar, the first quaver which is a D, has a natural on it, even though it has never been 'accidentalized' before.
The first D in the whole 2nd movement however, starts off without anything, and it's a natural...curious.

For your question on the 3rd movement: Prokofiev was a genius, and a pianist. Remember that pianists have bad handwriting? And smart people have worse handwriting, so it could have been edition disputes. Depends on which edition they used.
But again, it's Prokofiev, no one can hear the difference if you play E - G - C  ;D

Allegro Sostenuto: Sostenuto means 'sustained'. It can also mean slackening of tempo, so you can 'slack off' a bit and drink a cup of tea. How much slower? That's up to your personal comfort (no, don't drag to Gravissimo speeds). It is relative to your previous speeds.

Is Gravissimo even possible?
Bach - Partita No.2
Scriabin - Etude 8/12
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Liszt - Un Sospiro

Goal:
Prokofiev - Toccata

>LISTEN<

Offline troglodyte

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Re: Prokofiev sonata questions
Reply #4 on: July 26, 2007, 06:28:59 PM
Thanks! I agree F-A is most logical and sounds best. The D natural in m6 is not completely unmotivated since D is sharp in the bass in m5.

IMO this sonata is really underrated, probably much easier technically than the war sonatas (not that I have attempted them) but a real challenge musically. I am particularly fond of the first movement, with its meandering subdued melodies and the singular outbreak of despair in the middle.

While I am on it, does anyone know the precise meaning of the word "strepitoso" (2nd mov is "allegro strepitoso"). I understand it means something like "noisy", but does it also have a connotation of happiness or of misery?

Offline invictious

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Re: Prokofiev sonata questions
Reply #5 on: July 27, 2007, 04:16:51 AM
Allegro Strepitoso just means lively and noisy.

How you interpret 'Strepitoso' really, is up to you, personally. It will depend on how you play the first movement, and how you intend to play the third movement, and create a contrast.
Bach - Partita No.2
Scriabin - Etude 8/12
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Liszt - Un Sospiro

Goal:
Prokofiev - Toccata

>LISTEN<
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