Antonio Stradivari: genius or jerk?

[thalberg]

I've been reading a lot about Stradivarius violins lately, and one of the themes that keeps popping up is the man's incredible secrecy about how he built his violins.  He did not want others to know how he did it.

Now it's been 300 years, he's famous, and there are only about 600 of his instruments left.  Not nearly enough to go around.  If he had shared his secrets, people could be playing better instruments.   Yet he kept them entirely to himself.

Some might say that he had a right to do that.  Others might say he denied humanity some knowledge that could have helped us tremendously.  What do you all think?

[mikey6]

so no one's figured out how he made them? even now, in our wondrous years of technology (said with slight sarcasm)

[thalberg]

Well, Joseph Nagyvary is a Ph.D in chemistry, and he has come quite close to figuring out how Stradivarius did it.

He discovered that using wood treated with borax, ground crystals, and fruit gums made a violin that sounded more like a Strad.  He says Stradivari used these things to prevent insects and mold, but that he may not have realized what a good effect it would have on the sound.

In terms of the physical dimensions, laser x-ray technology has helped to reproduce that.  But a violin is said to have more than 50 parts, and exploring every one of the variables there could take another 200 years.

Overall, people have come close, but no one has found all the secrets yet.

[pianistimo]

tell us more about stradivarius.  apparently he didn't even pass the secrets to his sons?  or he did and they died.  how did the information die out?  surely he would have left something to someone.  you know - the shop in the back - with several violins still in the process.

perhaps rarity does give honor and cost to something - so in that case, few stradivarius would be a good thing.  and, if they were mass produced - we certainly wouldn't have that number of virtuoso violinists would we?

i heard some transcribed songs of tchaikovsky on the radio the other day with a superb violinist playing them.  i wish i could remember what they were called.

[soliloquy]

You don't know too much about violins, do you?  While the construction of strads is of course very good, it is probably not the best, and there are many other makes such as Ruggieri, Amati, Guarneri etc that some would even call better.  Strads are good because they were constructed well and they're very old.  The wood used to make violins "deteriorates" over time and fills with small holes due to oxidation, which allows better reverberation.  A perfect 100% replica of a strad would not sound 1/10th as good as a real one due to this.  Randomly, there are perfect physical replicas of Strads and Guarneri.  Their "secrets" have been discovered for a long time now lol.  Really only the signature wood treatments and varnish composition are still in question (somewhat in question), and this would not take effect for at least most-likely 50 to 100 years.  Violins are like red wine; you have to wait and let them ferment before they peak

[thalberg]

You don't know too much about violins, do you? 

Well, perhaps not as much as you.  If the secrets of the Strad have been known for a long time, perhaps you should share them with all the people who are still painstakingly researching it.  They do not know the chemical treatments or varnish he used (though they are getting close), and a violin has well over 50 working parts.  They say that to study the variations of all these possible interactions would take another 200 years.  True, the Amati and Guernerius do command the same respect as a Strad and are equally old.

[soliloquy]

Well, perhaps not as much as you.  If the secrets of the Strad have been known for a long time, perhaps you should share them with all the people who are still painstakingly researching it.  They do not know the chemical treatments or varnish he used (though they are getting close), and a violin has well over 50 working parts.  They say that to study the variations of all these possible interactions would take another 200 years.  True, the Amati and Guernerius do command the same respect as a Strad and are equally old.

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...Randomly, there are perfect physical replicas of Strads and Guarneri... Really only the signature wood treatments and varnish composition are still in question (somewhat in question)...

Thanks for agreeing with me?  I might have slightly misspoken when i said that "all the secrets" have been revealed, but I was mostly aiming at the idea of your original post when you seemed to assert that if we knew everything about them, we could create violins that would sound exactly like the Kreutzer or Cannon or something.  While obviously there are minute interactivity details that haven't really been explored yet in any one specific violin, there have been extremely near-perfect replicas of famous antique violins made which should technically yield the same results, whether we know about... hmm how to phrase this... they would work the same whether or not we know exactly WHY the neck is x wide at the base or not because they are replicas.

Anyway, I've always been a Ruggieri man myself anyway   Much deeper, almost French sound.  I actually almost owned a Ruggieri violin, as I knew someone that owned one and I long contemplated stealing it ^^;

[thalberg]

Here is part 1 of a 4-part youtube upload of a documentary called "The Mystery of the Stradivarius."

You might like it--I did. 

Truth to be told about Stradivarius, it is known that he maintained strict secrecy about his process and he did not WANT anyone to know how he built his violins.  Sure, each one is unique and no unique thing can ever be recreated exactly.  However, Mr. Stradivari knew useful and profound principles that he could have passed on to us but chose not to.  My question is, do you think that was wrong or not?

One thing that shows up on this documentary is that several trained listeners are asked to listen to 4 violins and identify which is the Strad.  They choose the one they like the best, and it is NOT the Strad--it's a modern one made by Jacques Fustier, which would sell for 26,000 Euros.

Wonderful violins are indeed being built today.   One person you may want to read about is Joseph Nagyvary, who has spent 25 years trying to recreate a Strad.  He has had a measure of success.