Difficulty level of Moonlight Sonata 1st Movement?

[ditz81]

Hi there,
my teacher and I are considering starting the 1st movement of the moonlight sonata, so I can work it during summer and would like to know how it grades.

I have seen in the graded chart list that the whole sonata is graded 8.
What would be the level of the 1st movement? (1 to 10).

I love it, but I don't want to get frustated because of its difficulty.

I am an adult beginner, started with 25years and have been taking lessons for 9 months.

Thanks in advance.

Recorded 3 weeks ago:
[VIDEO UNAVAILABLE]

(I can do better though)

[shortyshort]

I would say about Grade 4. 

Practice fast, perform slow. 

[rimv2]

Hi there,
my teacher and I are considering starting the 1st movement of the moonlight sonata, so I can work it during summer and would like to know how it grades.

I have seen in the graded chart list that the whole sonata is graded 8.
What would be the level of the 1st movement? (1 to 10).

I love it, but I don't want to get frustated because of its difficulty.

I am an adult beginner, started with 25years and have been taking lessons for 9 months.

Thanks in advance.

Recorded 3 weeks ago:
[VIDEO UNAVAILABLE]

(I can do better though)

One to ten the first movement is an 8 or 9. For one only studying 9 months at least. Some of the geniuses here will tell you that it's so simple they learned it the first time they sat down. Ah say this, not because of the notes, but because it requires a slow and steady tempo and sick voicing. (either that or mah teacher's insane)

The hardest parts of the entire piece, ah suspect, will be keeping the thumb quiet in the right hand, the crescendos to subito piano, and phrasing with the left hand. This takes a lot of practice.

Personal story:

Ah started playing at 16 and started this piece when I was 20. My intention was to walk in the room, slap the third movement on the piano, and get ta crackin, but mah new teacher suggested, "let us start with the first movement" (in that beautiful accent of hers). Ah laughed inside, she didn't. I plowed through the first movement with my usual air of arrogance.

Once finished, I folded my arms and looked to her to see what she thought. She smiled. But in that "if you can't say nothing nice" sort of way. I was puzzled by her reaction. This was good considering my previous teacher would have said something, to which I would argue, and sometimes even, win (not good for a starting pianist). This new teacher paused, thought about it, then simply said, "Okay, that was good, but let us try this..." I couldn't argue with that could I. After all, we were just trying it.

This chick learned me some piano!

There was so much subtlety in this movement; this movement, I thought wasn't even worth going over.

Playing all the right notes is to play the piano; playing the piano is easy. However, one must learn to play the music; this is not.

One downside is that this pushed my ear to a new level. Ah now hear mistakes in recordings where I never heard them before. Unlike before, if it's too great it becomes distracting.

I guess what I mean is: just because something seems simple, doesn't always mean it is. And if you keep up your study, you'll be fascinated by what you learn.

Just take if from someone who's been there.

Oh yeah, don't let me scare ya. Cause you'll love every moment of dreading this piece.

[shortyshort]

One to ten the first movement is an 8 or 9.

Sorry, I can't agree with that. That would make it about Grade 7 or 8.

What would you class as a 10 (1-10)?

[ditz81]

So we have got level 4 on the one hand, on the other we have level 8 or 9...

I know I am miles, ages or even several "lives" away to play the piece with that "something" it takes to make it sound as it's componser wanted to, but:

-is it too early for me to start this piece?

-is there a possibility to "spoil" a piece if you beginn it too early?

[shortyshort]

So we have got level 4 on the one hand, on the other we have level 8 or 9...

I know I am miles, ages or even several "lives" away to play the piece with that "something" it takes to make it sound as it's componser wanted to, but:

-is it too early for me to start this piece?

-is there a possibility to "spoil" a piece if you beginn it too early?

Just go for it. All the difficult bits, (voicing etc.) will sort themselves out once you have it all memorised. 

Listen to your favourite recording of it very often. Learn the whole Mvt. in your head.

[rimv2]

Sorry, I can't agree with that. That would make it about Grade 7 or 8.

What would you class as a 10 (1-10)?

Scarlatti K. 380 is given around a 5 or 6 in grade which would make it around between 6 and 8 on  a scale of 1-10. The first movement is a lot harder (to me) than this sonata.

Let's also consider the fact that the student has only been studying for 9 months. He asked how difficult it would be. You give a rating according to grading. Ah give a rating according to how hard this piece is going to be for the individual to execute at the current level.

As for what I would consider 10 for a beginner with less than a year experience.

Perhaps, Scarlatti K. 248 the tricky little bastard. Then again, perhaps this, and any other piece of equal or more difficulty is greater than ten for a beginner.

Ah know Chopin's op 10 no 12. Everyone's favorite.

For reference, ahm working on Gnomenreigen right now, which ah consider a 10 for mah level. Ahm also working on Chopin 3rd Ballade which ah consider a 7. A chopin waltz ah consider a 4 or 5. And a Scarlatti Sonata ah consider a 2.

It's all subjective really. But ah will say again, mah rating was for current level, not overall level.

[shortyshort]

Scarlatti K. 380 is given around a 5 or 6 in grade which would make it around between 6 and 8 on  a scale of 1-10. The first movement is a lot harder (to me) than this sonata.

Let's also consider the fact that the student has only been studying for 9 months. He asked how difficult it would be. You give a rating according to grading. Ah give a rating according to how hard this piece is going to be for the individual to execute at the current level.

As for what I would consider 10 for a beginner with less than a year experience.

Perhaps, Scarlatti K. 248 the tricky little bastard. Then again, perhaps this, and any other piece of equal or more difficulty is greater than ten for a beginner.

Ah know Chopin's op 10 no 12. Everyone's favorite.

For reference, ahm working on Gnomenreigen right now, which ah consider a 10 for mah level. Ahm also working on Chopin 3rd Ballade which ah consider a 7. A chopin waltz ah consider a 4 or 5. And a Scarlatti Sonata ah consider a 2.

It's all subjective really. But ah will say again, mah rating was for current level, not overall level.

Ah, I understand.

But the question was, "what level from 1-10 or what grade is Mvt I of Moonlight Sonata", NOT, how difficult would it be for someone who's been playing only 9 mths.

Now, looking at it your way, I wouldn't bother learning anything below 8 (1-10 for my level)

I'm still trying to finish Pathetique Mvt III, which I would consider about 15 (1-10 for my level)
I have most of it memorised, about 0.5 pages to go.

[rimv2]

Ah, I understand.

But the question was, "what level from 1-10 or what grade is Mvt I of Moonlight Sonata", NOT, how difficult would it be for someone who's been playing only 9 mths.

Now, looking at it your way, I wouldn't bother learning anything below 8 (1-10 for my level)

I'm still trying to finish Pathetique Mvt III, which I would consider about 15 (1-10 for my level)
I have most of it memorised, about 0.5 pages to go.

In mah defense ah is an insomniac 

[amelialw]

I would say about Grade 4.

no, not for sure..at least about Grade 9 RCM

[jinfiesto]

What! You guys are crazy. Moonlight first movement is cake. Voicing blah blah blah... It's still cake. Voicing is a cinch in something that slow. I'm thinking it couldn't be more than a 5... 8 or 9 rcm? Don't the chopin etudes fall under Rcm level 9? I don't think you can compare moonlight to that kind of literature.. The third movement is fairly difficult. And the 3rd movement of the pathetique is one of the easier movements.... Oh well. Maybe i'm just nuts or something.

[amelialw]

Don't the chopin etudes fall under Rcm level 9?

No they don't. Only the 3 New Etudes and Etude Op.25 No 2 fall between the Grade 9-10 standard. The rest are all Dip level

[pagesong]

i'd say probably 7 or 8.
it's really not that hard...
you just have to really enjoy it and you'll do fine

[rimv2]

What! You guys are crazy. Moonlight first movement is cake. Voicing blah blah blah... It's still cake. Voicing is a cinch in something that slow. I'm thinking it couldn't be more than a 5... 8 or 9 rcm? Don't the chopin etudes fall under Rcm level 9? I don't think you can compare moonlight to that kind of literature.. The third movement is fairly difficult. And the 3rd movement of the pathetique is one of the easier movements.... Oh well. Maybe i'm just nuts or something.

Difficult level not grade. Read mah friend, read.

It's funny you would mention that it's cake. Most recordings ahve heard by beginners, have the thumb hitting the first note in the triplet too loud.

To plow through it is simple, trust meh, ah know. To play it correct is far from simple.

[ditz81]

I will give it a try, as the risk of NOT finishing it is fairly slim.
I may/probably will play it horrendously, but I think may be a good time to start memorizing that piece and improving it with time.

[ryanyee]

i think people at grade 4 will fail their exams if this piece was set for grade 4. i should be either grade 7 or 8.

[and123]

It is a grade 7 piece, it was one of the easiest ones I have learnt

[gjkoster]

Hi,

I have only little experience with the grades system. I do see pieces sometimes graded higher than others while I myself would grade it the other way around. The point is, what is in fact 'difficult'? That differs from person to person. I find pieces difficult that have a lot of jumping chords etc. Where you have to take your eyes of the score for an instance. But when I now the piece by heart, I don't have any problems with jumping chords or the piece itself (as long as it is not too 'difficult' of course). In other words, my sightreading is the problem with those pieces, not the technical playing of it. For other people, this may not be the case at all, but something else. Just an example.

I started playing when I was 26 - so about your age - and I could technically play the moonlight sonate after about 6 months. I started with it after 3, without any musical background so I think thats quite alright. At least others did. However, I still play the piece about every week and there is always room for improvement. I certainly play it a lot better than I did before and I believe will do it better next year. The point is, when can you actually say you're done with it? I think that people who say they master this piece (or any piece) after 2 or 3 months do not actually master it, but are simply satisfied with their performance too soon. Do you think that Horowitz was ever 'done' with a piece that was relatively easy for him to play? Or Emil Gilels or other great pianists? Do you think they practised for hours and hours only to keep the technical parts going? I think if their attitude was like that, they would not be such great communicators of music because in the end that is what it is all about.

In other words, certainly start with it if you want to play it and make it beautiful!

GJ

[shortyshort]

And the 3rd movement of the pathetique is one of the easier movements....

Compared to what?     

[rimv2]

Hi,

I have only little experience with the grades system. I do see pieces sometimes graded higher than others while I myself would grade it the other way around. The point is, what is in fact 'difficult'? That differs from person to person. I find pieces difficult that have a lot of jumping chords etc. Where you have to take your eyes of the score for an instance. But when I now the piece by heart, I don't have any problems with jumping chords or the piece itself (as long as it is not too 'difficult' of course). In other words, my sightreading is the problem with those pieces, not the technical playing of it. For other people, this may not be the case at all, but something else. Just an example.

I started playing when I was 26 - so about your age - and I could technically play the moonlight sonate after about 6 months. I started with it after 3, without any musical background so I think thats quite alright. At least others did. However, I still play the piece about every week and there is always room for improvement. I certainly play it a lot better than I did before and I believe will do it better next year. The point is, when can you actually say you're done with it? I think that people who say they master this piece (or any piece) after 2 or 3 months do not actually master it, but are simply satisfied with their performance too soon. Do you think that Horowitz was ever 'done' with a piece that was relatively easy for him to play? Or Emil Gilels or other great pianists? Do you think they practised for hours and hours only to keep the technical parts going? I think if their attitude was like that, they would not be such great communicators of music because in the end that is what it is all about.

In other words, certainly start with it if you want to play it and make it beautiful!

GJ

*Tip o' the Hat* 

[sassafras]

I am playing Moonlight right now -- having played it 38 years ago.

If you played in the past it depends on how far you advanced then, I think.

I started late April and have played Moonlight maybe 6 times -- it is not perfect and I can play allegedly more difficult pieces with more ease.

Moonlight is listed  as a 7 -- usually.
Anyone who thinks it is a mere 4 has forgotten Moonlight's subtleties and has probably been comparing it to working on level 10s and 10 plus.

There are all levels of pianists on this site. In April I started with the basic beginner book from the local book store, so I think you can easily get it down through summer -- but I used to be a Level 10 player and I have put in 303 hours at the keyboard since April.

[nolan]

The first movement of the Moonlight Sonata is not very difficult. We are talking about the FIRST movement. If you are fine learning a single movement from a sonata (where generally you learn the whole sonata), then go ahead and work on the 1st movement...but the other movements are NOT for a beginner.

I don't see the harm in working on just the one movement, for a beginner. Everyone plays it...it seems to be a rite of passage.

[steve jones]

The hardest parts of the entire piece, ah suspect, will be keeping the thumb quiet in the right hand, the crescendos to subito piano, and phrasing with the left hand. This takes a lot of practice.
.

I could not agree with you more!

I tried this piece after a few months of playing, thinking it sounded easy. I get the notes of the exposition under my fingers... still thinking its easy. Then I start trying to bring out that upper voice while keeping the arpeggios nice and even underneath. Errr... suddenly not so easy, lol!

So I shelved it for a while and did Chopin prelude No 20, paying special attention to bringing out the upper voice. Did no harm.

SJ

[kelly1995]

Trying to rate a piece of music depends to a large degree what mountain you are trying to climb. Being able to play the notes might be one level of skill. Be able to stand out from a thousand other pianists playing the piece is a totally different skill level. Aiming to create a truly artistic interpertation yet another Skill level.

I remember my Grandfather telling me, that he once attended a concert in 1964 ( Carnegie Hall - Horowitz playing for the first time in public in more than a decade ) and the piece Horowitz played as an encore was a piece by Schuman called Tramurie( Sorry couldnt remember the spelling). I am sure every pianist here could play the notes, but none could take that simple piece to such a high artistic level.

Dont confuse technical skill for artistic effort.

Kelly

[m]

It might sound a little strange, but there are a few levels of the difficutly of this piece.
The interesting thing is, beginners will think that 1st movement is easy, and the 3rd is hard.
 
Advanced pianists would agree that the 3rd mvmnt is a piece of cake, while the 1st is troublesome.

[gerry]

I don't really understand this grading system you are talking about. Is there a manual somewhere that details the criteria by which these numbers are applied? If so, then your discussion and arguments are moot, if not, then it's so incredibly subjective as to render discussion meaningless. I don't see how, not really knowing an individual personally, their level of skill, handspan, etc., one can advise another on degrees of difficulty, One person's 1 is another's 8 and vice versa. Most importantly, why would anyone who really wanted to learn a work care at all what anyone else thinks about the difficulty It will become apparent soon enough and the student will be able to judge the degree of difficulty for him/herself. Just go for it.

[gerry]

One more thought, If you wanted to take on a particular piece that you've heard, love, and think you can play, and someone told you it was a 6 or 7, would that really stop you from trying? It just seems like a really one-dimensional way of describing works of art. Don't trust those who say this movement is easy or a snap. I tend to think that as one's technique improves, the easier it is to play the fast, flashy pieces and the harder those deceptively easy pieces become.

[jabbz]

I doubt anyone could claim the 3rd movement is easy technically, or musically. Certainly not technically difficult compared to Liszt or Chopin, but an average grade 8 pianist would tremble at attempting the Presto. Musically it's difficult too. The urge to turn it into a Lisztian show piece is often quite overwhelming.

But all that aside, just playing the notes of the first movement is technically easy, musically it's a swap, you need to keep the line in your head. Remember, don't try and make it as impressive as possible, just keep your head on the phrasings and tempo (which shouldn't be all THAT slow) and the music will come beautifully.

[sassafras]

more thoughts as my hands hurt from playing Moonlight first movement...if you can play it after 9 months, more power to you.
FYI John Thompson and Michael Aaron methods list it at Level 4, but Alfred lists it as Level 7 -- or what you should play after finishing the regular Level 6 book.

It is one thing to merely get the notes right --  and that is not easy, unless you are a level 8 or higher. It is quite another matter to play it "musically."

But, go for it...just do not hurt your right hand in the process.

You could always play a modified version at a real level 3 to get the hang of the iece first...

[emill]

The site music-scores grades the 1st movement as 5/9; 
but that would probably be an underestimate. A good number of guys
will be able to "play" the piece in 2 months in terms of its technical
requirements; but to play it with the correct emotion, subtlety, and expression
is another story and that would likely require a couple of months more to cook.

My 10 year old son downed the piece in less than 2 months; but surely you can see
(& hear) that the emotion and expression is sparse and it will take time and maturity
on his part to project the correct feeling and expression.  As an adult and likely to
have experienced love and rejection, you would be in a much better position to
project through the piece such emotions.  If your interested you can check out:

  -  Just my opinion.

Good luck!!!!!!

[ditz81]

Thank you very much for your inputs. I am learning it.

I got the first page of three memorised and in my humble opinion, and my teachers one, it sounds quite nice.
It will take some time though (2-3 months at least) to have it completely memorised.

[jinfiesto]

I still disagree. The piece presents artistic challenges certainly, but in the face of a distinct lack of any technical difficulty, they're not awfully difficult to overcome. Certainly the third movement is more difficult. Technically and musically in my opinion. When I referred to the third movement of the pathetique, I meant both in reference to the first movement, and most of the other beethoven sonatas. The Pathetique is not particularly difficult compared to a lot of the others.

[b0mbtrack]

i'm interested in starting to learn this piece (just the 1st movement) but am not sure how to break it down.  Like this forum suggested many times i don't just start on the first measure but rather break down the pieces and start usually on the hardest part.  But i'm not sure how to break this one down.

[pianochick93]

I have been playing a little over a year, and I think the first movement would be about a grade 4-5. Not sure on a scale of 1-10.

There is a tricky bit at the end, and the bit with all the accidentals that ascends up the piano, and I have small hands, but apart from that it is pretty easy.

[amelialw]

grade 4-5 abrsm? you have to be kidding...
Technically it is not very hard but musicality wise it can be pretty tough.

[pianochick93]

I was thinking grade 4-5 AMEB, which is the Australian grade system.

I also wrote that when I was convinced that I could play it, I have now given up, realising that I don't have the patience to play it with the musicality it needs. Frankly it bores me, and I can't put emotion into a piece that I am bored by. I play many slow pieces and are not bored by them, but this one I just can't play/ I thought I could, now I realise I can't.

Please excuse me for dragging up an old topic.

[ramithediv]

 Frankly it bores me, and I can't put emotion into a piece that I am bored by. I play many slow pieces and are not bored by them, but this one I just can't play/ I thought I could, now I realise I can't.

Practice it fast, it won't bore you then.
Memorise it.
Then play it slow and feel it. 

[pianochick93]

playing it fast just doesn't feel right...I've tried.

[zheer]

Frankly it bores me, and I can't put emotion into a piece that I am bored by.

  The sonata is bored of you,not the other way-round.
 

[ramithediv]

You will come back to it, one day. 

[amelialw]

in other words, maybe you are not ready to learn this piece yet... emotional-content wise

[pianochick93]

Yes, possible, and probably as well. I just prefer pieces that have more rhythmic variety.

I also have small hands, so I can;t play it very well. I find that if I can't play a piece well, but I can play all the notes, I generally stop playing it, so I don't kill the music.

[georgethemusicalme]

Well it totally depends on your hand span i think. If i recall correctly then you need to be able to span 1 octave and 1 or 2 notes in the 1st movement. I can only just span 1 octave 2 notes but you should be fine, especially if you're an adult beginner - most adult beginners seem to have HUGE hands - it's just the technique you'll struggle with. Don't rush it and pace yourself. Phrase by phrase you'll get it - just base the whole thing at a p dynamic and generally tend to add crescendos to f or even ff at certain moments. It'll sound beautiful if you take your time.