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Beethoven Op. 110 (Read 5742 times)

Offline amanfang

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Beethoven Op. 110
« on: July 27, 2007, 04:09:16 PM »
This is a work in progress.  I just finished the fugual movement, so the end is a little choppy - a few hesitations.  Otherwise, there are couple wrong notes throughout...
Anyway, I perform this in October, and I would appreciate any constructive criticism - things you like or things you don't like. 

Movements 1, 3, 4 (2nd wasn't quite ready).

Thanks for your help!
When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can't do.

piano sheet music of Sonata 31


Offline daniloperusina

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #1 on: July 27, 2007, 05:08:49 PM »
Mvt 1:
The shift from cresc to P bar 4 is very nice
rit at end of bar 4 very beautiful
Bar 12, at the start of 32nds I'd prefer no delay, but straight into them
Bar 28 I'd pedal slightly more, and slightly more audible descending bass line
Bar 44 etc the rushing in left hand?
Bar 79 I don't get the slow tempo? Also, my score indicates a tempo
3bars from end, RH F and Bb cut off the 'melody' Db. I'd prefer a more 'ringing' Db to prepare for the forte chord in next bar.

Just some things that I thought stood out..

There are lot's of very beautiful phrasings, dynamics, rubato etc in your playing, so it's already very good!

Offline amanfang

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #2 on: July 27, 2007, 05:18:50 PM »
Thanks for your comments daniloperusina.

Bar 28 - I will experiment with pedal.  Seems like I tried both and liked the drier sound better, but I will go back and play with it more.
Bar 44 etc - yes I do tend to change tempos there, probably elsewhere too.
Bar 79 - last time I played this for my teacher he said I was rushing there.  Guess I overcompensated for it this time.  ;D 


Thanks again for your comments!
When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can't do.

Offline amelialw

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #3 on: July 27, 2007, 05:25:26 PM »
good job especially for the 1st movement! ;D alot of beautiful phrasing, nice dynamics and tone quality. Since you want to and have to anyway make it sound better, why don't you listen to an actual recording? It should help...  http://www.classicalarchives.com/beethoven.html#beethoven_pianoson
J.S Bach Italian Concerto,Beethoven Sonata op.2 no.2,Mozart Sonatas K.330&333,Chopin Scherzo no.2,Etude op.10 no.12&Fantasie Impromptu

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #4 on: July 27, 2007, 05:28:55 PM »
Since you want to and have to anyway make it sound better, why don't you listen to an actual recording?

Ouch....!

Walter Ramsey

Offline amelialw

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #5 on: July 27, 2007, 05:30:15 PM »
hey I did'nt mean it in that way. Your recording sound really good but still you should listen to one played by one of those well-known pianist.
J.S Bach Italian Concerto,Beethoven Sonata op.2 no.2,Mozart Sonatas K.330&333,Chopin Scherzo no.2,Etude op.10 no.12&Fantasie Impromptu

Offline daniloperusina

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #6 on: July 27, 2007, 05:31:07 PM »
Bar 28 - of course, a concert hall acoustic will make it less dry. But I think it's not the dryness per se, rather something with how the bass part 'flows'.

Bar 44 - You change tempos a lot, to very beautiful effect! But here it's not a tempo change, it's a rush, and it wakes me up from my meditative slumber! :)

Thanks for posting!

Offline amanfang

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #7 on: July 27, 2007, 05:35:19 PM »
Thanks.  Any comments on the slow movement or fugue?
When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can't do.

Offline daniloperusina

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #8 on: July 27, 2007, 05:37:33 PM »
hey I did'nt mean it in that way. Your recording sound really good but still you should listen to one played by one of those well-known pianist.
I don't agree.
Amanfang has come far in realizing his/her own quite superb interpretation. At certain stages, listening to 'those well-known pianists' will only throw you off your course, as they might have a completely different approach.

In general, of course, you'll often learn something from them..

Offline furtwaengler

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #9 on: July 28, 2007, 12:30:12 AM »
hey I did'nt mean it in that way. Your recording sound really good but still you should listen to one played by one of those well-known pianist.

Yes, you donít get more well known then Bunji Hisamori and Pavel Gintov ::)
Don't let anyone know where you tie your goat.

Offline mikey6

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #10 on: July 28, 2007, 01:48:34 AM »
good job especially for the 1st movement! ;D alot of beautiful phrasing, nice dynamics and tone quality. Since you want to and have to anyway make it sound better, why don't you listen to an actual recording? It should help...  http://www.classicalarchives.com/beethoven.html#beethoven_pianoson
I'd listen to a renowned recording if anything, I don't think those would be quite up to par.
Schnabel, Brendel, Kempff...
Never look at the trombones. You'll only encourage them.
Richard Strauss

Offline amanfang

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #11 on: July 28, 2007, 02:18:33 AM »
I have all of those (I really love Kempff's).  Plus I have Richter, Arrau, Goode, and Rosen.  Maybe one more but I can't remember off the top of my head.

Aside from that, does anyone want to comment on movements 3 and 4?  I know the fugue needs some help still...
When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can't do.

Offline daniloperusina

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #12 on: July 28, 2007, 08:58:44 PM »
Mvt III
Bar 1: Perfect sound! But then the chords on beats 2&3 come off as too heavy. Try the opposite, make them softer so as to create a 'dialogue' btw soprano and tenor.
Bar 5: you occasionally loose the f-p effect. I think you should strictly adhere to it, even in crescendo.

The rest I find to be sublimely beautiful!

Offline daniloperusina

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #13 on: July 28, 2007, 09:26:19 PM »
Mvt IV
Good start, could be slightly faster.
The trill must be a real trill, not the 'chicken out' one you do :)
The forte is not loud enough, and the LH octaves must sound like octaves.
And because you didn't do a proper forte, your diminuendo doesn't come off well enough.

Overall, the fugue needs more dynamics. I beleive these are not subtle changes from p to f. It's, after all, not a Bach fugue, but a Beethoven. And the rf, sf, ff, cresc and dim must be much wider in scope.

The L'istesso tempo di Arioso sounds a little less relaxed than mvt III.

When the fugue picks up again, you seem a bit more responsive to the expressive demands, and the last page is quite exciting! Maybe you should avoid slowing down the arpeggio just before the last chord.

Offline amanfang

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #14 on: July 29, 2007, 01:22:28 AM »
Thanks again for your comments.

Tempo - yes I agree that it should be faster.  At this point I am not quite technically ready for the faster tempo.  Eventually though I will comfortably pick up the pace.

I had been having some technical trouble getting the trill - still working that one out.  In the meantime, no sense disrupting the flow by messing up a trill.   :)

I noticed that the arioso was a little faster the second time.  I wasn't sure if slowing it down more would make the movement lose momentum.  I will re-record slower and see what it does.

I also agree that it could use more dynamic contrast.  That was actually the first thing I noticed when listening.  I do wonder if my recording stuff has anything to do with it.  When I look at the sound wave bars, they are maxed out.  So I wonder if the loud only gets so loud.  Not sure. 

Anyway, these are very helpful comments that I will take into consideration.  Hopefully I will work a few more weeks and then re-record.

Thank you!
When you earnestly believe you can compensate for a lack of skill by doubling your efforts, there's no end to what you can't do.

Offline daniloperusina

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Re: Beethoven Op. 110
«Reply #15 on: July 29, 2007, 02:07:08 AM »

I noticed that the arioso was a little faster the second time.  I wasn't sure if slowing it down more would make the movement lose momentum.  I will re-record slower and see what it does.


In my opinion, absolutely not! It's perfectly obvious two-fold: quick check with the score, allegro ma non troppo, then l'istesso tempo di arioso (same tempo as..), then back to the fugue again...he couldn't have spelled it out more clearly!
Second evidence is in your performance, by not contrasting the two tempos the sections sound the same.
There is of course the danger that the 16th triplets will sound similar to the 8th triplets of the fugue. Maybe by avoiding any 'connection' between these will you be able to create true contrast.

The recording equipment excuse is not accepted! :) Yes there's distorsion and things, but the changes of loudness and intensity (or lack thereof) is still perfectly audible.