Improvising with Both Hands

[tac-tics]

Ever since I was young, I've always whistled to myself. I feel my skills at improvising new melodies or on existing melodies is pretty well founded. When I play with one hand on the piano, I can improvise rather well. Similarly, I can improvise just fine on viola. However, on piano, when I play with both hands, I just have absolutely no clue to what I should be doing.

Some uninteresting patterns I find myself repeating are playing alternating hands. Usually, a bass quarter note followed by a run of 8th note melody. Sometimes I use chords, but the problem with chords is that I keep repeating uninteresting chord progressions. (I realize that I have a habit when I'm not actively trying something new to simply repeat a I-V-vii-IV-V-I progression over and over). Additionally, when I play chords with my left hand, the melody tends to assume too many chord tones. If it's C major, then I don't make good use of D, F, A, or B. I know nonchord tones are what give music its unique characteristic, but I can't seem to figure out how to make it sound good.

I guess the real problem is I find it hard to figure out the most appropriate chords to my melodies. I think it's probably a matter of voice leading. I've learned a small bit of voice leading and counter-point, but I have no intuitive sense or skill at it.

Does anyone have ideas of how I can develop a sense of what the left hand should be doing?

[shortyshort]

I know you're waiting for a reply to help you. 

I can't,  but be patient, someone will. 

[tac-tics]

*bump*

Does anyone have any advice about this?

[pianistimo]

i'm terrible about harmonizing on my feet as well.  i've been using several books.  one is entitled 'jazz patterns' - but it doesn't incorporate melody so much as just moving from one pattern to another and sort of 'messing around' the keyboard.  as far as harmonziation - pianowolfi, ted, and others probably just do it by ear.  and would probably suggest experimenting.  perhaps they should write a book and include some patterns they have come up with.  funny thing is that opera transcriptions do a lot of what you are talking about.  try some and then make up a tune of your own.  busoni and godowsky were really experts at this.

ps i noticed that pianowolfi was not embarrassed to write down his ideas (so he wouldn't forget them ) and practiced them just like repertoire.  i thought, 'what a good idea!'

[laurent1234]

I am in the same situation and look forward to reading the answer of experienced people.
Bernahrd knows everything but does he knows about improvisation?
This forum seems to be a lot about playing classical piano pieces, maybe somebody can suggest a forum where people most concern is about improvisation  and composition? Or did I totally misunderstand the threadstarter?

[rodrix]

I guess the real problem is I find it hard to figure out the most appropriate chords to my melodies. I think it's probably a matter of voice leading. I've learned a small bit of voice leading and counter-point, but I have no intuitive sense or skill at it.

Does anyone have ideas of how I can develop a sense of what the left hand should be doing?

Hi tac-tics!
I've learning composing recently over the last few years, but before that I was as lost  as you are right now, so you shouldn't worry!

Composing and improvising seems really magical, but if studied in a good approach you'll find it to be actually very easy and structured!

Let me give you some tips that might be useful to you:
1) Learn how to harmonize scales: each scale in the keyboard has 7 notes, and each of these notes have a chord with a special function assigned to it.

For example this is the harmonization for the Major scale:
Maj7 , m7, m7, Maj7 , 7, m7, m7b5

This 'formula' is global, and you can use it in any root key. For example: C Major Scale's Harmony is:
CMaj7, Dm7, Em7, FMaj7, G7, Am7, Bm7b5

The point is that you don't have to memorize the harmony for each scale in a different key. You just need to know the 'formula' for each scale type, and then you can apply it to any key!

2) You should memorize all the chords for a given scale so that you don't have to look and your improvising or composing can be more spontanous.

For example, if you wanted to master Major scales, you would memorize all Maj7, m7, 7, and m7b5 chords! Yes! with only 4 chord types you can play any major scale. ( it's wonderful how structured and easy it can be!  )

3) Learn chord progressions. Play with chord progressions and learn which ones you like best. Chord progressions are not made up randomly, they follow chord's functions:

===> You can follow the circle of fifths to go from one chord to another

AND

===> You can use the chord functions. Take a look at the Major Scale example:

-Predominants: ii and IV
-Dominants: V and vii
-Tonic: I (you may also use VI for a deceptive cadence)

Try using one chord from each group in these order:
{Predominant} => {Dominant} => {Tonic}

These are *not* a rules, it's just a guide. Remember the ultimate judge is always your ear ;o)

==>You can modulate to any other scale.

 Remember that the sixth note of a major scale is the relative minor key. Therefore you can use the VI to go to the minor relative scale. Inversely, the 3rd note of a minor scale is the major relative. You can use the III degree to go to a major scale. However, in order to modulate you could use shared chords from two scales too and continue a chord progression in the other scale. There are many many more resources you can use...

4) Practice this:

Build up a chord progression you like (you could build many phrases with different chord progressions one after the other), Then on each chord play on your right hand a melody that contains ONLY notes 1, 3, or 5 from the chord you are playing on your left hand (no sevenths or other notes for the moment). As all the notes you are playing on the right hand belong to the chord, it will not sound disonant, and will sound pleasant.

5) You asked about notes that are do not belong to the chord.

Yes! The answer is that they make the melody sound richer, but the point is that you cannot play ANY note (you might actually, but that won't sound pleasent for everyone ;o) ), if you want to add non-chord tones, then you must make sure that the notes you play on the right hand BELONG to the scale that you are playing at THAT moment.

The notes that you will get using this approach, belong to the "9th, 11th, and 13th intervals" used in Jazz - named like that in jazz when played as part of chords- or they can also be seen as 'accidentals' or 'passing notes' n classical music. For example, you may find a very rich use of this resource if you analyse Chopin's melodies.

6) It also matters WHEN you place this non-chord notes,

you will experience that there is a big difference in playing notes that do not belong to the chord on the up beat or down beat. In classical music, for example, these notes have different names depending if they are on up or down beat ('Appoggiatura', etc, )
Try and listen the difference

7)More advanced progressions:
After learning all this, you could then explore "Seconday Leading Tones" (and Secondary fifths) and "Tritonal Substitutes" to reharmonize your chord progressions and make them richer. They are just ways that you can replace some chords with more richer ones from other scales.

Voice Leading is important but...
you can make something sound real good without too much voice leading analysis if you
use a nice chord progression. Voice leading makes transitions smoother and nicer, so you may learn this gradually to improve your sound.

KEY: use the right chord invertions between each chord to minimize the movement of all the voices.

When should you give real importance to voice leading? Usually in passages where you have repeated chords such as I-V-I-V-I- progresssions. For example you can find these in Beethoven, where the result sound is amazing, and the key is voice leading!

However, for example in a jazz song with harmonization by "block chords", all chords are made by jumps, and not too much importance is attained in respect to voice leading. They are different techniques, different types of sounds..

These are some tips I learned from my experience, and I hope this was useful and that I gave you an idea of where to head up to improve your improvising and composing skillls!

I suggest you take a look into these topics on the web and start trying them at the piano, especially trying improvising with 1-3-5 notes and a given chord progression.

Apart from looking on other sites, if you are interested in learning more about these topics,  I invite you to check out or new recent project:

The Piano Encyclopedia - the first practical guide to keyboard playing, composing, and improvising.

www.pianoencyclopedia.com

We're planning to provide a very practical and guided course on composing and improvising, including harmonizing scales,  keyboard illustrations and sound recordings of every chord and scale, chord progressions, modulation and many related topics in an effort for making improvising and composing an easier and more practical task.

If you don't want to wait for the release, you might as well subscribe to our newsletter as we'll be offering free beta releases and special promotions just for our readers! 

I hope this was helpful and useful!!!
Cheers!
Rod

[laurent1234]

Thank you Rod for this answer. It is very complete and clear, and it is really nice to see people taking the time to answer so completely. When I will be good i will try to share like people here share.

My only problem is that in the beginning of your explanation you talk about harmonization:
"For example this is the harmonization for the Major scale:
Maj7 , m7, m7, Maj7 , 7, m7, m7b5"
I am relaly not familiar with those notation and I have not done music theory for 14 years but I will wiki that and try my best to make use of the rest of your explanation. Once I have the very beginning clear in my head I am sure that the rest I will get since you wrote it clearly.

anyway thank you for the time
laurent

[rodrix]

I am relaly not familiar with those notation and I have not done music theory for 14 years but I will wiki that and try my best to make use of the rest of your explanation

Hi Laurent!

I am glad it helped!
Quick overview:
-Maj7 is a Major Chord with major seventh
-m7 is a minor chord with minor seventh
-7 is a major chord with minor seventh ("Dominant chord")
-m7b5 is a minor chord with minor seventh and diminished fifth, or in other words a diminished chord with minor seventh!

So... CMaj7 is a C Major Chord with major seventh (C, E, G, B)
        Dm7 is D minor Chord with minor seventh. (D, F, A, C)
...and so on!

This is the standard Jazz notation, which I find as one of the most  practical ways of  expressing harmony and chords. You will find this notation in popular songs, proffesional jazz standards, and harmony studies. So it's very useful!

Cheers! 
Rod

The Piano Encyclopedia -the first practical encyclopedia for keyboard playing, composing, and improvising in the world.

[laurent1234]

Hi Rod,

Thank you for your answer again about the notation. I have also found one instructional about hose notations in youtube so now I can fully appreciate and put into practice your first post.
thank you again
laurent

[rodrix]

Hi Rod,

Thank you for your answer again about the notation. I have also found one instructional about hose notations in youtube so now I can fully appreciate and put into practice your first post.
thank you again
laurent

Hi Laurent! I am glad it was useful! 
It is a very useful notation.

Although I think it's already clear, make sure you understand the I, II, ..., VII notation too.

Cheers!   

Rod

The Piano Encyclopedia -the first practical encyclopedia for keyboard playing, composing, and improvising in the world.

[laurent1234]

Dear Rod,
When will your Encyclopedia be ready? I want to buy one, the sooner the better!
cheers
laurent

[mknueven]

Another thing that I have found helps me in improvising is not to try for awhile and learn a new transcribed solo of Horace Silver  (since I like jazz)  I don't try to improvise - I just learn a new tune where I really admire the progressions.
I also (sorry Classical folks!)  sometimes do this with a fake book and later I find a more interesting way to interchange some old chords and make them more tastier.

[rodrix]

Dear Rod,
When will your Encyclopedia be ready? I want to buy one, the sooner the better!
cheers
laurent

Hi Laurent!
Thanks so much for your interest and your support!
Your words really get us to keep working and motivate us to develop better features!

We expect to release several beta version tests soon, and launching the public beta test  during this month to a limited number of users.
 
Up to now the first people that will be able to try it will be the first X registered on our newsletter from our homepage, although we haven't officially decided the maximum number of users we're going to have for this first public run.

All the first people that sign-up to our mailing list (www.pianoencyclopedia.com) will be given the possibility of becoming one of the first to try out The Piano Encyclopedia

However, if you send me personal message with your email I'll make sure you get an invitation
Your feedback has been very valuable to us, and I think it will be great opportunity for you to be one of the first to experience The Piano Encyclopedia and get involved in our releases!

Thanks for everything and your kind feedback,
Cheers!
Rod

P.S: Make sure to check the blog to read about the new features we've developed
(www.pianoencyclopedia.com/blog)
The Piano Encyclopedia - The first practical encyclopedia to keyboard playing, composing, and improvising in the world.