What's the best Beethoven Sonata?

[prongated]

I only like the Waldstein.

I can't stand anything else he wrote.  Overrated claptrap.  Especially the symphonies.

... If there's any Beethoven sonata that is closest to resembling a claptrap (I believe none of them come even close), it's the Waldstein - especially given the way so many young pianists play it these days!

[synthex]

?

[eminemvsrach]

Who's synthex??? And why is he posting question marks all the time??

[prongated]

S/he didn't post question marks. S/he posted something (which I'd like to know here!) and then modified most of his/her posts to question marks. I'm guessing s/he's upset over something...

[liordavid]

... If there's any Beethoven sonata that is closest to resembling a claptrap (I believe none of them come even close), it's the Waldstein - especially given the way so many young pianists play it these days!

the waldstein may be claptrap but it is a cool piece. part of me thinks that the first movement can be done with household items

[pianowolfi]

the waldstein may be claptrap but it is a cool piece. part of me thinks that the first movement can be done with household items

Sorta 

lol  

[goldentone]

Sorta  

lol  

Who is that Wolfi, someone new here? 

[magio]

Opus 13 No 8 Sonata Paathetique!
Not one of Beethoven's most important works.
However,as far as melody and feeling is concerned,it is surely one of the finest pieces of music ever!
It can always make you feel so....
so...................
high!!!

[moderatocantabile]

Why hasnt ANYONE named Op.106 Hammerklavier?

[pianoplayjl]

Appasionata sonata and Hammerklavier.

[philb]

Why hasnt ANYONE named Op.106 Hammerklavier?

Because it's not that great of a sonata. The slow movement last for about 10 minutes, and the fugue is way to large and could use some downsizing. With other late Beethoven (i.e. op. 109, 110, 111) there's no reason to look at the Hammerklavier as the best.

The greatest sonata in my opinion would be OP 111.

[pianoplayjl]

Because it's not that great of a sonata. The slow movement last for about 10 minutes, and the fugue is way to large and could use some downsizing. With other late Beethoven (i.e. op. 109, 110, 111) there's no reason to look at the Hammerklavier as the best.

The greatest sonata in my opinion would be OP 111.

Probably because you think it is boring.

[pianist88]

For me it would be the Tempest. Most boring one would probably be Sonata #2 in A Major

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Appassionata!!!!!!!!!

[teran]

My favourite is Op109, but there we go.

Not touching the "which is best" argument.

[perprocrastinate]

I hate them all. I'm still waiting for that epiphany to hit, where I suddenly fall in love with his music. It's happened for me with Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, and Prokofiev. Eventually Beethoven will be appealing to me. 




inb4 walls of hate messages sent at me

[j_menz]

Eventually Beethoven will be appealing to me. 

Once you grow up. 

[chopin2015]

Lol "who's synthex?"

[pianoman1800]

Mine are op 2 no 3, op 7 no 4, op 28 no 15 (pastoral), no 31 no 3, op 101, op 109, op 110 and op 111.

[david456103]

moonlight, waldstein, and appassionata

[gvans]

My favorite (working on it now): 109. Concision, emotion, counterpoint, speed, trills, variaziones. Amazing compression, beauty, and emotion.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Appassionata

BY FAR!!!

Okay, not by far cause you have that fresh Waldstein and Hammerklavier and Op. 110.

But YEAH, Appassionata.

If you disagree with me, I will strike you down with a thunder bolt.

[j_menz]

Appassionata

BY FAR!!!

Okay, not by far cause you have that fresh Waldstein and Hammerklavier and Op. 110.

But YEAH, Appassionata.

If you disagree with me, I will strike you down with a thunder bolt.

Appassionata!!!!!!!!!

Senility setting in?

At least you've calmed down (a little)

[ash120]

Op. 26 and Op. 57 - The only Beethoven pieces in my repertoire so far

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Nos. 29 and 31 are my favorites, with nos. 23 and 32 close behind.

[dizzyfingers]

The best Sonata for me is op.31 no 3  (Eb major) 
Why? It's full of surprise, changing moods, humor. Not as "deutsch" as many others 

I have to agree.  These adjectives pretty much cover it. 
Except the 3rd mvt, the minuet - seems Beethoven took a nap from being imaginative.  Though, the trio caught me by surprise the very first time I heard it, then back to sleep for the reprise of the minuet.  It sets up the 4th mvmt well-enough I guess.  I think that's its only purpose.

[dizzyfingers]

I really think it comes down to a duel between opus 53 and 57.  For some reason I can't include any of the last five, even though they surpass the rest in certain ways, and are probably my favorites.  I think Beethoven's craftsmanship in opus 53 and 57 is amazing.  When I listen to them, I feel a strong sense of satisfaction, of completeness, as if the idea has been fully realized.  I think they embody unity.   

Yes, as works of architecture, craftsmanship, they are the pinnacle of his piano oeuvre.
For me, the Waldstein wins though.  Perhaps partly due to the pure and granite-like key:  C major.
That 3rd movement - takes you to higher and higher levels of sound - space.

[dizzyfingers]

Op. 26 and Op. 57 - The only Beethoven pieces in my repertoire so far

I think the OP intended the question to be from a listening perspective rather than playing, which would limit most responders here down to 8 or fewer. 
But you probably know that - - -  which begs the question, have you listened to (a lot or many or most) of the Beethoven sonatas?

[thorn]

op.31/3 is one of my favourites too. My #1 is Waldstein though. I wasn't much of a Beethoven fan when I was younger, then I heard the 3rd mvt being taught at an open day and remember thinking "wow, I didn't know he could write like this". So yeah, it's the one that converted me!

My favourite standalone movement is the slow one from Hammerklavier, but don't consider the complete sonata a favourite.

[liszt-and-the-galops]

My favourite standalone movement is the slow one from Hammerklavier, but don't consider the complete sonata a favourite.

I don't like the fugue of the last movement, but the rest of the Sonata more than makes up for it IMO.

[essence]

My favourite standalone movement is the slow one from Hammerklavier, but don't consider the complete sonata a favourite.

Agreed. But the slow movement is rarely played well. It is one of the most demanding pieces ever. I think  Arrau and Solomon did good versions?

[dizzyfingers]

Agreed. But the slow movement is rarely played well. It is one of the most demanding pieces ever. I think  Arrau and Solomon did good versions?

The video doesn't have a link to the 3rd mv (slow). 
It's at 12:37.

Personally I think Solomon plays with too much rubato.  I can hear Chopin phrasing in the RH starting around measure 32.  I cut out at that point, but given what AI has to say:

"Solomon Cutner (known simply as Solomon) was primarily characterized as a pianist deeply dedicated to the style of the composer, rather than a romantic interpreter who imposed his own personality on the music. He was celebrated for his scrupulous adherence to the text, immaculate technique, and a "reticent" style that allowed the music to speak for itself."

I should go back and listen to more.

I'd be curious how Serkin plays it.  I had a recording of it by him as a kid, I believe.  Long lost.
Also curious how Ashkenazy would render it.  He's usually perceptive and clean in his interpretations.

[essence]

I was mainly focussing on the slow movement, I understand that Solomon may not be the best in other movements.

Arrau is good in the slow movement.

I was mainly responding to those who do not 'get it'. Many performances are indeed boring. The score has many many dynamic markings, and the best performers observe these meticulously. Just followed Arrau with the score. He is meticulous.

Aristo Sham is an example where it is good, but boring. He pays zero notice of the markings. he is not ready for it.

Kempff ignores them too. Even Kempff. Boring.

[ash120]

I think the OP intended the question to be from a listening perspective rather than playing, which would limit most responders here down to 8 or fewer. 
But you probably know that - - -  which begs the question, have you listened to (a lot or many or most) of the Beethoven sonatas?

I have listened to Op. 2 no. 1 (F minor one), 10 no. 2, Op. 13 (Pathetique), Op. 26, Op. 27/2 (Moonlight), Pastorale, Op. 31/2 (Tempest), half of Op. 53 (Waldstein)'s  mvt. 1, no. 26 (Les Adieux?), and Op. 57 (Appassionata). Not a very wide range.

[dizzyfingers]

That got me thinking - how many total movements are there across the 32 sonatas?

There are 101 movements in total.
Four movements: Several early sonatas (Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4, 7) and Op. 106 (Hammerklavier).
Three movements: Many of the sonatas, including Nos. 5, 6, 8, 14, 17, 21, and 23.
Two movements: Sonatas No. 19, 20, 22, 24, 27, and 32 (Op. 111).

[dizzyfingers]

I always think of the sonatas by opus.
Rarely by number.
Here's a list including both:

Early Period (1795–1800) - Influenced by Haydn and Mozart while establishing a unique voice.
No. 1-3: Op. 2 (F minor, A major, C major)
No. 4: Op. 7 (E-flat major, "Grand Sonata")
No. 5-7: Op. 10 (C minor, F major, D major)
No. 8: Op. 13 (C minor, "Pathétique")
No. 9-10: Op. 14 (E major, G major)
No. 11: Op. 22 (B-flat major)
Middle Period (1801–1810) - Known for experimentation with form and emotional depth.
No. 12: Op. 26 (A-flat major, "Funeral March")
No. 13-14: Op. 27 (E-flat major, C-sharp minor "Moonlight")
No. 15: Op. 28 (D major, "Pastoral")
No. 16-18: Op. 31 (G major, D minor "Tempest", E-flat major "Hunt")
No. 19-20: Op. 49 (G minor, G major - "Leichte Sonatas")
No. 21: Op. 53 (C major, "Waldstein")
No. 22: Op. 54 (F major)
No. 23: Op. 57 (F minor, "Appassionata")
No. 24: Op. 78 (F-sharp major, "A Thérèse")
No. 25-26: Op. 79 & 81a (G major, E-flat major "Les Adieux")
No. 27: Op. 90 (E minor)
Late Period (1816–1822) - Highly complex, philosophical, and demanding works.
No. 28: Op. 101 (A major)
No. 29: Op. 106 (B-flat major, "Hammerklavier")
No. 30-32: Opp. 109, 110, 111 (E major, A-flat major, C minor)

[ash120]

I always think of the sonatas by opus.
Rarely by number.

Same. And apparently my teacher looks to numbers rather than the opus. I remember while I was playing Sonata Op. 26, I once texted my teacher about it and she sent me more sonata options by number about what to play next, such as No. 8, No. 16, No. 17, No. 23, No. 30, No. 31, etc and told me to pick my favorite and we'll do it. And then she said she loves 26. That time I thought she was referring to Op. 26, and I said I love it too. But I was confused because I thought by "26" she meant the one we were already playing; I hadn't heard of Les Adieux.
Out of the set she sent, I liked no. 23 the most so I clarified that she was talking about Appassionata (Beethoven Op. 23 is actually a violin sonata, which obviously I didn't know ) and so now I'm playing that!

[thorn]

Agreed. But the slow movement is rarely played well. It is one of the most demanding pieces ever. I think  Arrau and Solomon did good versions?

Hadn't heard Solomon before. I enjoyed his 3rd mvt. And I always like Arrau in large scale works, likewise Richter (haven't listened to his with the score to see how faithful it is, but enjoyed it anyway).

[dizzyfingers]

Arrau is good in the slow movement.
The score has many many dynamic markings, and the best performers observe these meticulously. Just followed Arrau with the score. He is meticulous.
Aristo Sham is an example where it is good, but boring. He pays zero notice of the markings. he is not ready for it.
Kempff ignores them too. Even Kempff. Boring.

I agree Kempff's is a tad boring - he's not really deep enough in it.
Sokolov's is quite the opposite.  He is deep in the music and attentive to detail.  He doesn't Chopinize measures 31-33 (like Solomon) but it's not as masterful as Serkin - a true architect, + he knows how to tap into the "march of fate", so central to Beethoven's music; it's felt from the first measure and continues without fail.

1

1

[liszt-and-the-galops]

Honestly, I've never been a fan of Solomon's Sonata no. 29. I prefer Pollini's interpretation (though my favorite fourth movement is Friedrich Gulda's).

[dizzyfingers]

Honestly, I've never been a fan of Solomon's Sonata no. 29. I prefer Pollini's interpretation (though my favorite fourth movement is Friedrich Gulda's).

I listened to Pollini's - the exposition of the 1st mv,  right after listening to Serkin's 1st mvt.
I get the sense that I'm listening to a great concert pianist with Pollini and with Serkin's I get a sense I am listening to Beethoven, a composer who had ideas in the form of motif, harmony, rhythm, dynamics, etc.

Plus, that incessantly intense Pollini tone is too much, even for this piece.

Even worse than Pollini, in terms of bringing in the ego, is Igor Levit.  Not going to even bother to post his version, but it's on YT if you want to look it up.

[essence]

I think it all goes to show how difficult it is to bring off, and how tastes differ.

I think overall Arrau is my favourite. He obeys all those hairpin dynamic indicators, which many don't. Difficult to bring off - what on earth was Beethoven thinking?

I haven't checked all the above recordings, but the hairpins in bars 30, 33, 34, 35 - it seems only Arrau even attempts to do them.

Listening again with e score I do prefer Arrau to Solomon, but understand if you consider Arrau over romantices it.

Pollini tramples all over the hairpins. I realised it was going to be a long listen after the first couple of bars.

Arrau's recording and his pp are remarkable. For example during the long rit from bar 107. It is interesting to compare this rit with the one starting at bar 168. The latter almost comes to a halt. The world has become too weary and heavy. But Beethoven picks himself up.