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Topic: Beethoven 4th Concerto, mvmt. I  (Read 4766 times)

Offline jamie0168

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Beethoven 4th Concerto, mvmt. I
on: August 08, 2007, 12:55:02 AM
Let's talk about this wonderful movement. I know there are tons of pianists out there who love this movement as much as I do. I'm almost done learning it. Ofcourse, polishing will take a god amount of time.
I'm interested: how many cadenzas have been written fo this movement and by whom? The only two I know of are in the back of my Henle edition.
What do you think are the most technically demanding passages?
What are your favorite passages?
I think this movement is absolutely glorious. I get so many mixed emotions when I listen to this. I only hope that I'll be able to play it with an orchestra this year.

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Beethoven 4th Concerto, mvmt. I
Reply #1 on: August 08, 2007, 05:30:24 AM
will get back asap.  it's 1:29 am here.  i have a score with some sidenotes - but never played this all the way through myself.  didn't tengstrand say he was doing a masterclass on this?  now where is he?

Offline jlh

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Re: Beethoven 4th Concerto, mvmt. I
Reply #2 on: August 08, 2007, 07:46:25 AM
I played piano II for a friend of mine in a competition once...  beautiful piece!
. ROFL : ROFL:LOL:ROFL : ROFL '
                 ___/\___
  L   ______/             \
LOL "\         [ ] \
  L              \_________)
                 ___I___I___/

Offline teresa_b

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Re: Beethoven 4th Concerto, mvmt. I
Reply #3 on: August 08, 2007, 11:35:49 AM
Let's talk about this wonderful movement. I know there are tons of pianists out there who love this movement as much as I do. I'm almost done learning it. Ofcourse, polishing will take a god amount of time.
I'm interested: how many cadenzas have been written fo this movement and by whom? The only two I know of are in the back of my Henle edition.
What do you think are the most technically demanding passages?
What are your favorite passages?
I think this movement is absolutely glorious. I get so many mixed emotions when I listen to this. I only hope that I'll be able to play it with an orchestra this year.

I just played the "chamber version" of this concerto a few months ago.  It is my very favorite piano concerto!  I'm not sure exactly how many cadenzas have been written for it, but other than the two written by Beethoven, I know Brahms wrote one or two, and also Clara Schumann. 

Technically demanding:  The whole thing!  Seriously, that's almost true, as far as I'm concerned.  The first line is crucial, and difficult to get the effect.  (Be sure to think of the first passage after the opening tutti as ONE long phrase.) 

That passage immediately after the "slow" lyrical one is very tough--where the rapid 16th note triplet things that are sort of contrary motion in both hands--I found it very hard to get them exactly together at tempo.  In fact all the fast triplets in the piece are difficult!

The worst technical difficulty for me (other than the cadenza) is the development section after the sweeping arpeggios (whcih aren't bad). 

Evenness in your playing is tricky and critical throughout.

If you choose Bethoven's cadenza, beware of the shorter one!  The other one is very long but easier.

My favorite passages--How about that glorious celestial passage right after the forte entrance to the recap?

Have fun!  Once you master this (I don't claim that, BTW) you will enter another plane of existence when you play it.  :)

Teresa

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Beethoven 4th Concerto, mvmt. I
Reply #4 on: August 08, 2007, 12:15:49 PM
cool that several people here have played it.  i just have a schirmer score that was copyrighted in 1901 and provided with fingering and a complete arrangement for piano.  the introduction and notes were translated from german by dr. th. baker.

this concerto (according to my score) was dedicated to his imperial highness archduke rudolph of austria.  it was finished in 1806 ? and published in august 1808 by kunst und industrie - comptoir, vienna.  it was performed for the first time in public (according to thayer - 'the life of beethoven, vol III pp 6-8) by the composer on dec 22, 1808 in the theater an der wien.  this concerto was played as eaerly as march 1807, in the salons of prince lobkowitz.

czerny gives a tempo for this piece in his 'die kunst des vortrags,' supplement to the great pianoforte method, opus 500 - as quarter note = 116. 

all appoggiaturas in this concerto, with the sole exception of that beginning the trill on pg. 67 are crossed (crossed flags) in the original edition - whereas the original impression of the c-minor concerto, which was published by the same firm four years previously, contains only uncrossed appoggiaturas. 

in some places you can substitute triplets in the bottom note area of some of the double trills. 

this particular edition has two cadenzas in the appendix that were written by beethoven.  in nottebohm's thematic catalogue of beethoven's compositions, these cadenzas are enumerated among the authentic ones; the autographs, according to the same authority, are in the possession of breitkopf and hartel.  not published during the composer's lifetime, they were first printed, to the best of our knowledge,by the above firm.

the first cadenza has the words 'ma senza cadere.'  according to nottebohm, this title was written by beethoven himself.  also cf - thayer's chronological catalogue no 131.

there is also a fischhof copy, in the berlin royal library that reads like the schirmer edition. 

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Beethoven 4th Concerto, mvmt. I
Reply #5 on: August 08, 2007, 12:27:42 PM
here is a program where robert levin stepped in for alfred brendel - who had broken an arm - and played it as one would expect to hear 'orpheus descending to the underworld - but being rebuffed - and showing the terror but love-ensnarement that forced him to venture forth into hades walking a 'una chorda' tightrope.

it explains here how the una chorda was developed at this point as hitting only one of three strings - so beethoven uses it to his advantage.

https://www-tech.mit.edu/V121/N21/BSO_-_Jon_Richm.21a.html

Offline teresa_b

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Re: Beethoven 4th Concerto, mvmt. I
Reply #6 on: August 09, 2007, 11:33:12 AM
Interesting program note about Levin, pianistimo! 

Beethoven's admonition re: the first cadenza, "ma senza cadere," means  "but without falling down" --an interesting note, but quite obvious once you try to play it! 

Teresa


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