Can you evaluate my level?

[laurent1234]

Hi Everybody, Hi Bernahrd
-------------

I know that I have a very poor understanding of music theory and piano playing.
I know that without hearing me playing  you can not tell if my playing is good or not.

16 years ago, the last piece I have played was Chopin Opus 9 nocturn #1, and despite all my default interpretation has always been my strong side.
From a purely technical standpoint, where does that put me on your level standard (according to your national classification system)?
How much higher would be somebody that can play something like Chopin revolutionary etude?

Please forgive me if my questions seem naive. I have stopped piano for 16 years and want to get back on track and i would like to know about my current level to set a progression path

thank you for your help

[allthumbs]

I'm afraid that there are several 'Nocturne No.1's' listed in the RCM syllabus, so we'll need to know the Opus number.

What else was in your repertoire?


allthumbs

[amelialw]

is it Nocturne Op.72 No.1 in e minor?

that would be a grade 10 RCM piece.

The Chopin Revolutionary is at a ARCT Performer's level, it's much harder then the nocturne.

[laurent1234]

Thank you Amelialw and Allthumbs for your answer already, and sorry for omitting some details...

Chopin nocturne Opus 9 #1...I will edit the first post to correct.
If this is around the level 10, by working reasonably hard ( one hour a day) how long could it take to reach the Performer's level?...And yes I know the question is general and it all depends on the person and the teacher yet I would like to have a general idea

thank youf forehand for your time
laurent

[pianistimo]

i think the nocturne would be much harder - interpretation-wise.  very very difficult.  the revolutionary etude just seems like a bashing.  you can probably do it justice - but, i'd learn the rest of the nocturnes if i were you.

[laurent1234]

Thank for your answers,
However I don't want to know the level of difficulty in interpretation, I want to know the technical difficulty that Pous 9 Nocturne 1Chopin puts me on according to your national music standards ( like RCM). And how much time I need to get to the technical proficiency necessary to play the Revolutionary (I dont find the piece beautiful, actually it is very repetitive, but technically I feel totally unable to do something like that, so I would like to know how many  years I would have to work in order to get there)

thank you forehand for answering my somehow general questions
best regards
laurent

[allthumbs]

Chopin's Op.9, No.1, Nocturne in Bb minor is listed as Grade 10 in the RCM syllabus.

[amelialw]

why particularly the Revolution, there are so many other etudes that chopin wrote the are musicality wise beautiful and pleasing to the ear that still give that aspect of technical training.

Sorry but I don't see you being able to reach the performer's level by practising 1 hour a day, student usually practise between anywhere from 2-5 hours before they take their grade 10 exam.

Besides that I depends how much you can actually pick up or gain everytime you practise and if you want to get to the ARCT Performer's level you should work of the basic pieces that are required at a Grade 10 level.

1 Baroque piece
1 Classical sonata
1 Romantic piece
2 20th Centuary pieces
2 studies

as for the number of years, only you yourself can set a goal. Since you are working back up to the grade 10 level it might take a little longer. Student usually take between 1 -2 years to finish of their ARCT.

I am currently working on my ARCT Performer's right now and a good deal of commitment and practise is expected as it's on a whole different level from any of the grades.

[laurent1234]

Thank you all for your answers.
Could you link me to a full explanation of the RCM standards and level?
Is the ARCT level just after the level 10?
If I am the average student ( which in fact I am not ), by working one hour in an efficient fashion ( following Bernhard-like method) would  you say that i could get to performer level in 5 years?

Amelia you know I perfectly understand what you are saying, that one hour is not enough. Unfortunetly I have a PhD to finish, a job to start, passion for sport and really after stopping for 16 years I think that working one hour a day, taking pleasure doing so, it is already a good start. I have the secret plan to take 6 months off just to focus on piano but I can not cound on that right now.

And one last thing, I agree theat the Revolutionary is not anything special. But I dont know so much about musique, and the only difficult I can remember and I actually was impressed as a kid was the Revolutionary. Hearing the advanced students playing it in my school was impressive. But yes I will most probably opt for something that is both difficult technically and at the same time more beautiful. i will try to listen the pieces you suggested and hopefully in a couple of years I can send you a link to me performing them.

thank you again

[laurent1234]

You are going to think that i am really insecure (I probably am), but does a grade 10 RCM qualify you as intermediate, or advanced level?

[rallestar]

If you can play op 9 no 1 - This post is assuming that you have the skill now that you had when you quit - then with 1 hour of serious practice every day, it should be very possible to learn the revolutionary within the next 5 years.

[amelialw]

info about the RCM Grades are not available online but anyway I have the syllubus so...here you go

Royal Consevatory of Music (RCM)

Introductory Grade - Grade 10

Introductory Grade: any 3 contrasting pieces
Grade 1-2: 1 Baroque/Classical, 1 Romantic/20th C , 1 invention and 1 study
Grade 3-7: 1 Baroque, 1 Classical/Classica style, 1 Romantic/20th C and 2 studies
Grade 8-9: 1 Baroque, 1 Classical, 1 Romantic, 1 20th C and 2 studies
Grade 10:  1 Baroque, 1 Classical Sonata, 1 Romantic, 2 20th C and 2 studies

Pass: 60-69
Honors: 70-79
1st Class Honors: 80-89
1st Class Honors with Distinction: 90-100
* for grade 10 at least 75 or 70% for each section is required to carry on to ARCT and a prelude and fugue is required either for grade 9,10 or ARCT to graduate

Associate of Royal Consevatory of Toronto (ARCT)
3 diplomas
- ARCT Performer's
1 work of J.S Bach, 1 Sonata, 1 Romantic, 2 20th C and 1 Concert Etude
- ARCT Teacher's
1 P+F, 1 grade 9 work, 1 grade 10 work and 2 ARCT Performer's Pieces
- ARCT in Theory

Pass: 70 required for ARCT Performers and 75 required for ARCT Teachers
Honors: 70-80
1st Class Honors: 80-90
1st Class Honors with Distinction: 90-100

[laurent1234]

thank you Rallestar and Amelia
Rallestar, I also assume that it will not take too long for me to recover my level and to some extent I am almost sure I have already. In 16 years i have stopped playing the piano, but there is so much more involved about progressing in piano than piano alone. I stopped because i felt anxious to keep learning new pieces without understanding them from the inside, and in fact without understand the creative process that lead to those pieces, or the intent behind it (for example is it an etude or not, what is it trying to teach then?)

Reading posts from all people here, from bernhard, being able to listen to pieces on the internet, behind able to read articles and expert opinion is changing everything. Really before I understood nothing of the context of pieces. I feel lucky to have internet now, to have a cheap yet good enough digital piano I dont need to retune. Of course I feel frustrated that things did not fall into places sooner, but that is life and I am still young:)

thank you again, and sorry for all this babbling. i am actually quite moved lately by this piano thing.
kind regards
laurent

[lazlo]

I don't think level can be quantified by what you're playing nearly as much as how you play what your playing. So much emphasis is put on playing things that are considered "hard" or impressive", but its much more impressive to hear someone play something easier well than something hard badly. Not saying anything about you, just something to keep in mind as you work towards your goal of the revolutionary etude. I began that one a couple of weeks ago. It's tricky, but by no means out of reach for anyone provided you go through the necessary intermediary steps. Good luck, and try not to quantify your ability as "intermediate" or "advanced". It's music, and its impossible for anyone on an internet forum to really tell you your ability based on a piece that you can play without hearing you play it.

[laurent1234]

Hi Lazlo,

thank you for your kind comments and your advices. You are right to say that one should focus on quality ( playing piece wel) rather than difficulty. I totally agree. I will try not to rush things, and go step by step so that I learnt from the journey while still having the pleasure of reaching the initial destination.

As far as knowing if I am an advanced player or not, well it is important for me. I should have been more specific in my first post and say: I want to evaluate my technical level. As far as interpretation is going I have no problem. Sight reading and true understanding of the keys,scales,chords and harmonies  pushed me to stop piano.
 So I have to work on my understanding of pieces structures, and then I will be able to assimilate better the technical difficulties of the new pieces I will learn.

I am not in a hurry, but i am reassured to know that if I do things properly being able to assimilate and play something like the revolutionary is possible, and reaching the ARCT performer level is not out of reach.

thank you again,
kind regards
laurent

[penguinlover]

Laurent,
   
    I am impressed with your great attitude!

[gyzzzmo]

I dont know HOW you play those pieces, thus i cant evaluate your lvl either. Try recording something and put it on the forum
gyzzzmo

[n_n]

May I know how useful taking the above-mentioned exams is? to what capacity? Are those the most honored exams around? What about the state level exams/competitions? Do they not weigh as much? Thanks so much! I know some of the answers might be obvious, but I really have no idea.

Good luck to laurent1234! I wonder how you could have such discipline to practice just an hour a day! I'm not being sarcastic at all. I was in the same shoe as you are now, and somehow playing the piano gradually worked its way into the majority part of my life and I eventually gave up a lot of things, important things, just to give enough time for my beloved piano.  I like your 6-months-off idea better.